CCMtg10-09-06WSMinLONGV6~OOI- CITY COMMISSION
~~ Longwood City Commiission Chambers
175 West Warren Avenue
Longwood, Florida
HISTORIC I~I,~TRICT
COMMUNITY WORKSHOP
MIhTUTIS -
OCTOBEI~t 9~, 200.6
'7:00 P.N[.
Present: Mayor John C. Maingot
Deputy Mayor Dan Anderson
Commissioner Mike Holt
Commissioner. H.G. "Butch" Bundy, Jr.
Commissioner Brian D. Sackett
Donovan A. Roper, Special. Counsel
John J. Drago, City Administrator
Linda F. Goff, Recording S~ecret~~.ry
Paul. Sizemore, Interim Director of Community Services
Ryan Spinella, Executive. A.ss:istant _
Absent: Richard S. Taylor,. Jr., City Attorney (Excused)
Teresa. S. Roper, Acting City Attorney (Excused)
Sarah. M. Mirus, City Clerk (Excused)
1. CALL TO ORDER. Mayor Maingot called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
2. BUSINESS.
A. Discuss lot splits, character of the Historic District and two proposed
developments within the Hiistoric District.
Michael Towers, 754 Fleet Financial Court, inquired if he could pick up where he
left off last meeting. .
Deputy Mayor Anderson requested introducing to everyone why the meeting was
being held since they specifically ~,vdnted i:eedback from the property owners
within the Historic District. .
Mr. Towers said he would like to hear from the people within the District anal take
into account their concerns and outlook. He said he would relinquish his time to
the residents of the Historic District.
Mayor Maingot stated they would like to see what his proposals were. He
explained- the reason for the Workshop this evening was that Mr. Towers is
proposing certain structures for development within the Historic District. He said
CC 10-09-06/3.13
that citizens who reside in the District and/or fellow residents thathave dealings .. _
within the Historic District are aware. the reason for this Workshop is to hear their
opinions and comments. The Commission can. hear their needs and their
perception of the Historic area. He declared all projects must be maintained by the
current Code; both the Longwood Development Code and the Historic District
Code Book.
Mr. Towers said he first wanted to clarify they were not proposing townhomes,
but single family homes. He stated they were proposing six (6) individual homes
for the Bay Avenue project. He said prior to the most recent Code change in June,
they did meet both the Historic District Code Book and the Longwood
Development Code from a site plan layout. He said this was discussed with City
staff in January and they could make modifications. They have since retained Dix
Lathrop, the same architect hired to create the Historic Code Book. He met with
Mr. Dix a few days ago and there were. some changes. he felt might be beneficial.
He stated the Pine Avenue project was adjacent to the Panacea building. He
explained they were proposing three individual single family homes. This project
was discussed with City .staff in January. He said it met the Historic Code Book .
requirements as far as setbacks and also the Longwood Development Code. The
ingress and egress was changed for both of these projects at staffs' request. He
stated the Police Department had comments in regards to the ingress and egress to
both and these changes were based upon their suggestions. He declared the Pine
Avenue project has several benefits, including the: front of the Panacea building
and it actually hides the back of a commercial building on State Road 434. He
said these were the two projects they were proposing. in the Historic District. He
affirmed he would like to hear the public comments and then be given the
opportunity to respond.
Mayor Maingot said they would now hear from the. public.
Shari Rosefelt, 278 Blackwater Place, thanked the Commission for agreeing to
this Workshop. She said. she was not in favor of building homes in the Historic
District in which lots had to be split or Code had to be changed to cram in homes.
She said she was in favor of building homes in the District that reflect the charm
and enhance the District. She affirmed she has been attending the City
Commission meetings for two years and whenever the Historic District was
mentioned, it was mentioned with pride. She declared this pride was reflected in
the Community Building and it helps fit the tone for the area. She asked not to
change the existing Code of the Historic District,. and not to allow construction of
multiple buildings on one lot. She stated not to allow the splitting of lots, or allow
the area to be overbuilt. She said they need to determine the best means of
preserving and enhancing the integrity and the important features of Longwood's
Historic District in rehabilitation and new .construction projects. If they want to
continue to speak about Longwood's Historic District with pride, .she declared
they needed to leave the Development Code alone and deny changes to the charm
of the area.
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Commissioner Sackett requested to refrain from applauding or booing, and also
~~ refrain from using terms that maybe: infectious, such as horrible.
~~
Judy Putz, 280 West Warren Avenue, said. in 1991 when the Historic District was
admitted to the National Register of Hi.sto~°ic Places,. the. firm of Yielding and
Provost wrote the Historic District Design Guidelines for Longwood, Florida. She
said these guidelines state that new development in the District shall respect and
re-enforce the existing character of the area. They went on to say the. construction
of a new building on a vacant lot has an obligation to continue the existing
building spacing and that the most important spacing was between buildings
because it is the most visible. She said to allow the construction of multiple
buildings, all of a similar size and sr~le located 6-9 feet apart was totally against
the character of this District. She said another serious concern was the capacity of
the infrastructure. She said there was very little that could be done to add new
parking to the streets. She stated it becomes, very important for each development
to provide adequate parking on site. She e~cpressed concern about the storm
sewers. and how much run off they ca.n accommodate. She asked what would
happen when the infiltrators fill with silt aJid stop functioning. She said the
Historic District includes the downtown and stated many tax dollars had been
spent on improvements. She declared every Longwood citizen should have some
input in the future. She mailed out 4S0 letters to Longwood citizens and Historic
Society members asking them to attend this meeting or return the enclosed
petition. She mailed each Commissioner a copy of this letter. She said she had a
total count of approximately 175 ret<irned i;o her. She affirmed this District was
extremely important to the citizens of Longwood. She said the Commission had
created a beautiful downtown and requested they leave the Codes as they are and
not allow cookie cutter row homes or, towrhomes,
Terry Hotard, said he resides in Winker Pa.~k and has owned property in the
Historic District in Longwood since 1983. He confirmed he has owned property
and paid taxes in Longwood since 1983. His property is located at the southeast
corner of Bay and Wilma. He said the Historic District was very appealing and
very attractive. He said there was a l~~rge v,~cant lot next to his building that has
never been developed and it provides rode~its. He stated there was a vacant lot
across the street where a house that was le~ining was finally taken down. He said
they needed to get something done. He would like to see the vacant lot next to
liim be built on with something everyone vi Longwood could be proud. He
declared he was ready and willing to put money into his property. He said other
than the doctor's office being constnicted on Bay Avenue, lie has not seen much
development in Longwood for a long; time. He stated he would not invest funds
on improving his property until he sees other things happening in the Historic
District. He has talked with other property owners that are in the same position
and want to see something happening. He e:ncouraged the Commission to let
something happen.
Charles Cameron Winfree, 241 West Warren Avenue, said he has met and talked
~. with each Commissioner and found all to be very helpful in straightening out
Longwood. He stated there were many problems in the past with the Historic
CC 10-09-06/.S 15
District and in the past few years there had been a tremendous effort put forward.
He said he did not want something developed that does not belong here. He stated
they needed to stay with the current Codes and not overcrowd. He said they
needed to keep the standard of living for those who live here the same and not
lower it. He stated they wanted to keep Longwood beautiful, peaceful, and open.
Jeff Dix, Dix Lathrop and Associates, helped Mr. Drago with the Master Plan. He
said he was here to offer what the intentions may have been when the Historic
Code Book was developed. He stated Mr. Towers had come to him with his plans
and showed him what his intentions were. He said they have not done any work
on these plans, but had discussed a couple of issues. He mentioned a lot of what
the Master Plan had to do with the scale of property was really important. He said
the scale of a building that had proportions that weren't too wide was important.
They took the notion that most buildings should look like it was an old-house that
could be turned into retail one day, or an office, depending on what the market
demanded. He stated the past couple of years the market has transitioned to more
residential. He said one of the purposes of the book was for buildings to be
established so they can change over time. He affirmed development that could
change over time was sustainable development.
Joan Manti, 242 and 216 West Warren Avenue, said she met the other day and
saw the plans. She said she was not against development and empty lots would be
lovely built with this type of idea. She declared her only concern was the. parking
issue. She stated the driveways with these proposed homes were~neutral and not
individual. She said these were large homes and people living in them would have ~' .
at least two cars. They would not be able to park in their driveways because other
people would have to use the driveways to get to their garages. She .stated there
was a parking issue and if that could be fixed, this development was lovely.
Roberto Rosania, 103 Mound Street, said he has lived in Longwood since 1986.
He said he was not in favor of construction of this nature. He stated he has quite a
bit of civil engineering experience and in his experience they would be confronted
with more traffic. He said this inearis more vehicles and more commercial
vehicles.
Hilda Reeves, 262 West Bay Avenue, said she had no objections to building in the
City of Longwood. She stated dividing lots and cramming in that many houses
was not workable for the people of Longwood. She said they have heard for years
that everything needed to be kept historical and go through the Historic Society.
She declared this definitely did not have a historical feel.
Gary Hill, 282 High Castle Lane, said he was the owner of the property on 116
Bay Avenue and currently resides in a development similar in design to this. He
said they were in the early stages to build on their lot. He stated he didn't. know if
fie would be motivated to build with this as a possibility next door. His position
was that he did not have. enough information to make a decision. He said he
would be in support~of the residents who are here and have been here. He declared' ,J
he would like to live here, but he would also like to see the area grow.
CC 10-09-06/316
Marv Volkenin~ 241 West Bay Ave:sue, ::aid she would like to know what size lot
~ was being subdivided and into what size parcels. She said she lives on a l0U x
~~'' 100 foot lot and according to the map the smallest lot on Bay is 50 x 100 foot. She
suggested a 100 x 100 foot lot only be allowed to be split down to 50 x 100 foot.
She stated this would be in keeping with the District. She said there was a
problem with drainage and traffic as it is. She said she hoped they would use
logic..
Mr. Rosania pointed .out they had Liberty Plaza at County Road 427 being
developed and this would add to the traffi~~.
Mrs. Putz said she received several letters from people who received petitions and
she read a couple of the letters in opposition. She read a letter from Ann Cooper
who lives in Casselberry, and Dorothy Pierson who was involved with the
Historic Society and establishment of the historic District. She also received
responses from Nancy Hammond, Raymond and Jean McWilliams, Shirley :Fads,
Cameron Winfree, John Urich, and many others she named who oppose this
development. She stated she did not oppo:;e townhomes and tight structures; she
just opposed them here and hoped th.e Commission would rethink this.
Joan Russell said she had more questions than problems. She said she has lived in
Longwood since 1970. She inquired lot si~:es were currently allowed by the
Building Code and what was being proposed. She declared she did not understand
why developers would buy in the Historic District and then want to alter
everything they liked. She said she opposes anything that was contrary to the
Historic District as it now stands.
Tammy Uliano, 224 West Magnolia Aven~~e, said she received letters from Mrs.
Putz and Mr. Towers and came to see ~vha~t this was all about. She stated she was
a bit offended to hear someone say Longwood does not put money into
rebuilding. She declared there has been a lot of effort in making this whole area
better and more beautifitl. She said slle also does not have a problem with
townhomes. She said they own a small horse near the Police Station and her son
is growing up in this area. She stated she was worried and had concerns about the
long term affect in 10-15 years. She affirmed the City Commission has done a
tremendous job in Longwood. She said the gentleman that did not want to develop
his land tultil someone else took initiative ~md did so was the wrong way to think.
Florence Radun, 241 Lazy Acres Lane, said she would like to know if the City
was still considering the large project; at the; Pic`n Save with all the stores and the
live in community, plus the Liberty Plaza on County Road 427. She said if they
have all of that .going in; why would they need this in the Historic District? She
declared by letting this happen it would become a virus.
Michael Rolinsky, 115 Ruby Red Lane, said he has lived here 15 years and has
seen a lot of growth and changes. However, he has also seen a lot of neglect. He
said his subdivision has had holes in :front of drainage areas over the past four (4)
months that they cannot seem to fill these. he said they were overbuilding anal
CC 10-09-06/`t 17
there was no where for the drainage to go. He said they needed to take care of the __
natural ways fo take care of drainage of the rain.
Kristen Roy, said she was from Altamonte Springs, but she and her husband own ~
the Clouser House at 211 West Warren Avenue as their business. She wanted to
go on record saying they were struck by lightening and received damage from a
fire after three years of renovations and large investments. She said they had a
love for historic homes and would like to see that atmosphere preserved. She
stated if they do start introducing more traffic and more dense population it would
distract from the overall historic atmosphere they were trying to create. She
declared she would like to see the current lot sizes respected and retained.
Jack Bauer, 135 West Pine Avenue, said he respects the comments heard and he
asked Mr. Dix to reiterate his comments as they were more pertinent than any.
Mr. Dix said Sustainable Development was what he was referring to and this was
something a lot of Historic Districts were dealing with. He explained Sustainable
Development can switch from one use to another and be flexible over time. He
said how to keep an area like this alive and viable was tricky. He stated he was
hearing a lot of talk about a lot split and said he didn't remember that part when
doing the Code. He discussed proportions .and said there were lots in the District
that were wide and to not allow a lot split would ruin the proportion. He stated a
property owner would be allowed to build a large, wide building on that lot. He
suggested it may be more appropriate to keep lots to a reasonable size that
comfortably allows for its uses, parking, and retention. He declared it was all .~
about scale and detail.
Mr. Winfree said with regards to usability as the architect was referring to, look at
what was built Here in recent times.. He said the.Putz home meets the criteria and
was also a business. The Community Building has the flavor and meaning of the
Historic District. He stated varying lot sizes was part of what makes this Historic
District.
Mark Yon, 1746 Graystone Court, said he owns Lot 34 across from this property
on Bay Street. He advised he previously owned the property of the proposed
project and through his realtor it was sold to Mr. Towers. He said he was put to
task to obey the guidelines put forth by the District and by the City. Through a
one and a half year design process they have fmally designed a building that has
been approved. He advised this came in well over budget and he has not
complained because he knew what he was .faced with. He said there was not
enough information about this development to know whether it bothers him or
not. He stated his building would be built to be sustainable. He asked that the
quality of construction, development, and the extensive engineering he was put to
task to deliver would apply to this gentleman and anyone else who wants to build
in the Historic District. He said this was a very enj oyable place and he would
enjoy an office and working here. He said it must be maintained and enforced, but
they also need to be open minded and flexible at times so it can be developed. He _~
declared things like the .sidewalks and brick roads would invite developers here.
CC 10-09-06/318
He asked everyone be open.minded, but at the end, require everyone to live by the
same rules.
Kenny Yates,. 527 Southport Drive,. addressed the fact that the flex use Mr. Dix
discussed would become the cancer of this kind of density. He addressed parking
issues. He said Historic Longwood tc~ him has been single family homes. He said
you cannot access his parents' home now because of parking for the medical
building behind them: He declared a decision had to be made whether making this
residential or commercial.
Mr. Hillyer said they have already had the architect warn about the- guidelines and
style and other requirements. He said he ne;eds to decide if he wants to break
ground and return to this type of corrununiiy. He declared they were attracted to
the landscaping, the brick streets, and the sense of community. He personally will
now want to get more information be:fore starting with an architect and go through
the process. His hope was that this can all. work together and maintain a sense of
community.
Commissioner Holt left the Chambers at 7:58 p.m.~ and returned at 8:.00 p.m.
Mrs. Marti said her property at 242 West ~Narren was 150 feet wide and there
currently was a single residential home on the property. She said it could, perhaps
some .day, be a small business.. She said if ihs goes through she would be foolish
~ financially to not .subdivide her .lot and make three townhouses there.
Jamie Wright, 141 West Jessup Avenue, said he works for Dix Lathrop and
worked extensively on the .guidelines for tree Historic District. He declared they
spent a lot of passionate time working on the Code book .and studied it
extensively. He said the character of this District was very unique and shares a lot
with other Historic Districts.. He said it was important to keep in mind the ability
to have amulti-use structure. He stated it was a matter of doing this appropriately
with the correct type of design. He declared mixed-uses are very vital in a District
such as this, assuming you account for parking and drainage. He said they.plan to
extend their offices on property next: to the Mona Lisa Restaurant which was a
mixed-use property. He stated they were considering living quarters above their
offices. He reiterated it was important to keep the mixed-use potential and said
this was a way to make Historic Districts flourish.
Mr. Towers said he didn't want anyone or i:he Commission to continue with the
assumption they were the bad guys coming into the block. He said they started off
extremely well intentioned by starting with the Historic Preservation Board asking
what they would like to see and what was permissible. They further spoke to Mr.
Drago and he referred them to the architectural firm used to design The Ham;Let.
This firm was too busy and they went. back to Mr. Drago for recommendation of
an architect that would be able to und.erstar~d the character of the Historic District.
He referred them to Winter Park Design who did not want to provide any
~~ drawings until speaking with Mr. Drago.. He said they were initially looking at
townhomes and both firms indicated they did not support the townhome aspect.
CC 10-09-06/~i 19
He stated they immediately changed and went to single family row homes. He
said they met with staff and the common wall or connected townhome concept
was a concern and they reviewed the Code showing what could be done. He `J
stated they split the buildings apart at staffs' recommendation. He declared when
they started in January these projects were both permissible under the Historic
District Code Book and the Longwood Development Code. He said barring
engineering for water retention and things of that nature, the number of buildings,
setbacks, and parking all met the requirements. He affirmed he received a letter
stating both projects were permissible under the Codes, but they needed to do a
plat.
Mayor Maingot inquired if he had that letter.
Mr. Towers responded in the affirmative.
Mr. Towers said in 2004 when the City approved the Historic Code Book, it was
very clear duplexes and townhomes were to be permitted in the Historic District.
He said they voluntarily changed their project because people. didn't like the
townhomes. He declared they have been trying to work cooperatively and make
changes to move forward and meet the demands. He said they designed to meet
the Code and the Code was changed. He said they went before the Historic
Preservation Board and were tabled with no one ever getting back to them, and
then the Code was changed. He said he appreciates everything the people in the
Historic District have said tonight and they will take this into account. He said it
was important from the first aspect that neither he nor the Commission are
architects. He said they either need to trust the architects and their input or not. He
affirmed the Commission trusted Dix Lathrop when they put together the Code
Book, and he will trust him as well. He said with the Commissions approval they
would like to allow Dix Lathrop to take the Districts intent and charm to create
something similar to what they have and work from there. He said he would like
to .address concerns people have mentioned. He stated the first thing brought up
was the Panacea parking lot. He said they own this and the last thing they would
do is put their tenant out of business. He said the ex-filtration retention there has
worked and they have never had standing water in the parking lot. He said if it
was good enough for the Longwood Community Building, it should be good
enough for development in the Historic District. He said their design will be
providing 18 onsite parking spots and this provided seven (7) more parking spaces
on site than currently exists. He stated the water retention would be far greater
than undeveloped property, as they will be required to retain 100% of their water
onsite. He affirmed there would be less flooding on the street as a result of onsite
retention. He said there.were two (2) aspects of the Code to be considered
regarding roads and infrastructure. He said you must look at the number of
acreage and not just the number of lots. The Code states median density
residential is ten (10) units per acre. He ,said he did not know of a street in the
Historic District that does not meet City Standards.
Mr. Towers stated the petitions submitted back to Mrs. Putz were invalid. He said• ~
the fact that the letter said townhomes was misleading. He said she advertised
CC 10-09-06/320
townhomes and this was not townhomes. He said they were concerned about what
~ this was going to look like as well..lie stated this would be deed restricted
{~'' housing and he did not want rental housing. Rental housing would be deed .
restricted and they would deed restrict gar;~ge usage. He said they must be
workable garages. He said they were- not opposed to looking at things to create a
good workable product for the District. He stated they have agreed to construct
the same parking on Bay Avenue as that on Pine Avenue. He said Mr. Dix had
some good ideas regarding parking.:FIe afiumed they were not looking to cut
corners, but looking. to bui d good quality housing. He said they were looking to
enlist the assistance of the people who have dedicated their time in the Historic
District. He declared they were. not opposed to changing the look or the number of
units within reason. He reiterated the City entrusted Dix Lathrop to create the
Historic Code Book and the Master i'lan. ~~e stated he was willing to give up
development or design control to them.
Mrs. Putz requested to respond since she was mentioned by name. She read her
petition and said it made it perfectly clear what she was talking about. She stated
the current Code states you may build one building per lot and may not split lots.
She said if they allow lot splits with multiple buildings they cannot go back.
Mr. Towers said he was in agreement that They did not want to see townhomes
built either. He said the density of units was the number of uni"ts per acre. He said
what she was saying. was the current Code was debatable. He stated the bottom
line was they had site plans submitted in January and you cannot change the Code
~-- to keep things from happening.
Mayor Maingot ,said they were not here this evening to .hold discussions back and
forth. They are here to hear his input and the input of the people.
Mr. Towers said he thought they were here to work on some sort of resolution to
move forward.
Mr. Rolinsky said the voice of the people. was never invalid and the petitions were
the voice of the people:
Mayor Maingot closed the public input.
Deputy Mayor Anderson. stated this was a difficult project and they were being
asked to change the Code to accommodate it as presented. He said it was
important to have input from the residents as they were all in this together. He has
said before he was not opposed to making changes in the Codes to accommodate
what is right,, to accommodate what. fits, and to accommodate what promotes the
vision and the character of what they :have ~Gnd want. He said a lot. of time and
effort has been put into creating the Code. :Ke reviewed renderings on. various
pages in the. Historic Code Book as pint togE;ther by Dix Lathrop. He said these
renderings capture what was said about the sense of proportion, about usage and
changing over time. He said these structures fit proportionately on the sites and fit
with their neighbors. He stated he would be willing to discuss this because if this
CC 1.0-O~a-06/321
was one lot and had been split, it was done in a way that made sense. Another
rendering, was similar to what Mr. Towers referred to and the only drawing that ~
has dimensions listed. He said this was a 50 foot lot line and gives the homes
room to breathe between. The key is the proportions and Dix Lathrop envisioned
in this drawing to allow some row homes, but they allow for the proportions. He
said each rendering has a garage and a driveway capable for additional cars. He
advised that new home construction in the City must have four (4) off street
parking spaces; two (2) in the garage and two (2) in the driveway. He said this
was the vision he sees in the District with spaces that can change over time.. He
referenced the Mona Lisa as .an example of change that works.
Commissioner Sackett stated he rents a home in the Historic District for his father
and frequents the area. He said he adores the character of what this Village
presents. He stated this was a nice safe area where he .has had children grow up.
Longwood is a quaint. area and this is what makes it Historic. He declared if they
start splitting lots they were asking for trouble. He stated he was thrilled the
Birthing Center was going to be rebuilt after being hit by lightening. He said he
stands with one house per lot.
Commissioner Holt asked Mr. Towers how big the property was where he
planned to place five (5) or six (6) buildings.
Mr. Towers advised the Bay Avenue property was approximately 205 linear feet.
Commissioner Holt inquired how big the buildings on each. lot would be. ~
Mr. Towers said they would be between 2,200 and 3,200 square feet.
Commissioner Holt inquired if he had done a study on the number of cars in and
out of this general area.
Mr. Towers responded in the negative.
Commissioner Holt inquired if the next project on Pine Avenue would abut an
existing strip mall.
Mr. Towers responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Holt .inquired how many businesses were located in the strip mall.
Mr. Towers said there were four (.4) or five (5) different businesses.
Commissioner Holt said the parking in the strip mall did not: match the number of
businesses located there, but he has never seen it over crowded. He stated they
were discussing two (2) projects and it was.hard to understand which one they
were talking- about at any given time.
CC 10-09-06/322
_ Mr. Towers said they did initially look at simply residential,. but he understands
^~`` the mixed use was advantageous. He; discL±ssed parking.
l~
Commissioner Holt inquired if it~was cord>ct to say the lot split Ordinance was
not in affect at the time he purchased the property.
Mr. Towers responded in the .affirmative.
Commissioner Holt inquired if they ,were in litigation at this time on this property.
Mr. Towers responded in the affirmative
Commissioner Holt asked if the information tonight was helpful to both sides of
the litigation.
Mr. Towers said he was looking to reach an agreement so not to have to bring the
litigation up again.
Commissioner Holt said no one has ind.icai:ed what they would like to see built.
He said the exfiltration system to be used ,cannot be seen. He said the City had
Code in place so that every room could not be rented out. He stated he did not see.
where traffic was going to be an issue.
Discussion was held regarding traffic.
Commissioner Holt stated Mr. Towers had been diligent in working with the City
and he was not. opposed to recommending :Dix Lathrop work on the design.
Mr. Towers said there had been numerous studies done by architectural firms on
row houses. He stated if the concept of row housing was done properly, they can
be nestled fairly well. He said his first que:;tion to Jeff Dix was whether or not to
do smaller single family homes or one large building. He stated he personally felt
smaller homes would look better.
Mayor Maingot said there were mane desil;ns and, criteria in the .Historic Code
Book that would more than adequately suit. what is being proposed in terms of
design and quality. He stated, at the same time, they have established certain
Codes that must be worked with. He said ii.'the Commission was to start changing
the Codes for one person, they must ~~hange for each person coming forward.
Mr. Towers said he was saying don't chanr;e the Code, but they changed the Code
to keep them from going forward.
Mayor Maingot said Mr. Towers referred to a site plan being approved in 199
and asked if that was a site plan or a concept.
Mr. Towers said it was a site plan that was submitted to Mr. Drago, Mr. Sizemore
and Mr. Miller and was an approved site plan. He stated St. John's Water
CC 10-09-06/:j23
Management District did not lose their copy and he provided a copy from their _
archives.
Mayor Maingot said any changes made to the Code were made with public-input
and public participation. He stated they were not done to prevent anyone from
doing what they wish to do, but were done to protect the character of the Historic
District. He said the Pic' n Save and Wildmere were different areas and different
rules apply. He stated they have. listened to the voices tonight. He said he has had
many people calling him and they want the Commission to proceed with what. has
been established and designed in the Code. He affirmed one gentleman stated he
was building at $200 a square foot and realizes the value and the quality. He said
they welcome Mr. Towers to come and build in the Historic District, but he must
follow the Historic Code Book and the LDC. He asked Mr. Towers if he had
submitted site plans that have been returned to him with comments.
Mr. Towers said he had received comments on one site plan, not the other.
Mayor Maingot said the City had made proposals to Mr. Towers and have not
heard back on these proposals. He said they have demonstrated a willingness to
work with him, but not at the disadvantage of the Historic area and the character
of the Historic area. He stated he welcomes his structure, but it must be done
within accordance of what has been established:
Mr. Towers said they were not. asking for any Codes to be changed for them with
the exception of the condominium concept. They were not asking for any changes
to build out of the ordinary. He reiterated, in January when they .started this
process he has a letter from staff stating their projects can be built. He said they
voluntarily reduced the number of units on Pine Avenue. He said the bottom line
they were looking at was rather than building one big building on Pine to break it
up into smaller touts. He again asked to let Mr..Dix work on the design.
Mayor Maingot said that type of design was currently in the Historic Code Book.
Mr. Towers said he was in hopes of being closer tonight: by discussing and
looking at a new concept. He said it was not a matter of cost, but what would look
better. He said it would cost less to build one big building.
Deputy Mayor Anderson explained the City was currently in litigation with Mr.
Towers in regards to Pine Avenue. He said 1VIr: Towers .has told him that staff is
hiding things from him. He said he had never been informed that Mr. Towers had
a letter of approval for these. proj ects. He asked Mr. Towers to provide a copy of
this letter to the City Clerk so he can see it. He also said he would like to see a_
copy of the approved site plan from 1999. He affirmed the site plan would have
been signed by the Mayor. He said they could also look in the minutes of the
meeting it was approved. He stated there was a difference. in talking to staff,
showing them paperwork and actually submitting something. He said this was
why an offer was made to him and the offer had a time certain: He stated they
have not heard from him regarding this offer:
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__l Mr. Roper confirmed they have not heard ,anything to date.
~°' Deputy Mayor Anderson said it was frustrating to him that Mr. Towers'
represents a willingness to work with them, but there are always exceptions. He
said Mr: Towers references things happening. and no one can correlate those
. things happening. He declared that document would bind them if he can. produce
an approved site plan. He affirmed sine plans;had to be approved by the City
Commission in 1999.
Mr. Towers said he believed it was TQayor Miller at the time. He said the Mayor
stated he would like to see it look like the JBradlee-McIntyre House. He stated
there was correspondence between NIr. Roper and Mr. Hill regarding exceptions,,
additional square footage, impervious surf ace ratios, and reduced parking. He said
there was another letter from Mr. Taylor he can provide. He stated the point was
that it took two (2) years to restore the Historic structure: He inquired if it was the
contention they did this illegally without an approved site plan. He said they
received a Certificate of Occupancy.
Deputy Mayor Anderson said he would like to see these, documents.
Commissioner Bundy said they have all agreed the stormwater had. to be met no
matter what the density is. He inquired if the only difference between now and
January was the Code being changed. in June to prohibit, lot splits.
Mr. Towers responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Bundy inquired if the properties on Bay Avenue were relying on
off .street parking. or garages..
Mr. Towers advised they would have: garages:
Commissioner Bundy asked.if the entry would be from the rear of the property.
Mr. Towers responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Bundy asked what the cost .per square foot was.
Mr. Towers estimated the cost to be at ].east- $200 per square foot. He said if it was
acceptable to the Corrunission on Pine Avenue to either design one large building
and being able to split it up into three; .residential units would accommodate the
parking to a much better advantage.than commercial. He said at that point they
would not have litigation to discuss any fiu~ther and he would move forward on
Pine Avenue.
Commissioner Bundy said they have made a settlement offer and he asked Mr.
Roper if he was comfortable with diacussirig the square footage.
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Mr. Roper responded iri the affirmative. He said he was waiting on any type of _
response, verbal or written, to the City's settlement offer with regards to Pine and ~
Wilma on square footage.
Commissioner Bundy said they were allowed to hold Shade Meetings when they
were discussing lifigation strategy or settlement and he did not want to circumvent
this. He said 6,700 square feet was the proposal in the settlement offer to Mr.
Towers on this property.
Mr. Roper advised the offer was around 6,300 square feet.
Commissioner Bundy inquired what the total square footage was on the three
properties.
1VIr: Towers advised they were 2,200_square foot units.
Commissioner Bundy inquired if Mr. Towers were to accept the settlement offer
as made, he would, in fact, be allowed to build up to a 6,700 square foot building,
provided the engineering requirements and other Code requirements were met.
Mr. Towers responded in the .affirmative. He said one of the other things that
actually benefits would be if they could look at three separate units or just from a
residential aspect: He stated both residential and commercial in the Historic
District were permitted in the Code. He discussed the parking accommodations,
~J
Commissioner Bundy said the Community Building was approximately 7,20.0
square feet under air, so they would be talking about a building similar in size
provided all other issues were worked out. He said the. other issue brought out is
that the Code should not be changed for. a developer. He stated the Code was not
cast in concrete and. must be changed from time to time. He declared,. in this
situation, the property was purchased before the Code was changed. It was not a
matter of a developer trying to change the Code after buying the property.
Commissioner Holt said he appreciated Mr. Towers coming to meet with the
residents and the Commission at a Work Shop.
Mr. Towers said the only hurdle they have was with the proposal for Pine
Avenue. He declared it would be less vehicle traffic and would look better as
smaller residential buildings rather than one big building.. He said, as far as the
Bay Avenue project, they were willing to look at suggestions. He stated the one
problem they did have was with the current Code. of lot splits. They could do two
b'ig buildings and. one, small building on B'ay, but unfortunately it does not work
financially. He declared they were asking not to stick them with the new Code,
but with the Code when they started this process. He said Mr. Dix had stated
something- can be designed to meet the character of this District and. look good.
He stated they were willing to lose square footage; they started with seven (7)
buildings, came down to six (6), and he would come down to five (5). He
reiterated that three (3) buildings did not. work financially.
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Deputy Mayor Anderson said he he~crd one thing he appreciates and would be
~.
interested in. He stated, first off, it v~~as no:~. the City Commission's job to design
I~ and architect new construction for the Cit3~. Their job is,to listen to people that
own property in regards to what they v~~ant and how they want their City steered.
He said he would be interested in seeing if Mr: Towers wants to work with Dix
Lathrop. He stated there could be an interesting vision on how those properties
could .be used. He~said that was different tl.ian stating what ever he comes up with
they will approve. He stated there were a lot of design considerations in the Code
books and there were setbacks to be met, green space in the form of impervious
surface ratios to be met; and a lot of architectural details to be put in the. District.
He affirmed the City Commission needs tc~ balance a lot of different needs and
consider what is good for the community.:Ele said he was willing to adjust and
modify the Code when it fits the vision and when it promotes and enhances the
District.
Mr. Towers said the only question he had with moving forward was how many
units. He said to design it was one thing.
Deputy Mayor Anderson stated he could come up with design concepts and. all the
rest was details, He said he needed to sell the concept.
Commissioner Sackett said he had never seen the site plan and would also like to
"- see it. He reiterated it was not the Commission's job to develop the concept. He
inquired if this meeting was serving as a C.APP meeting and said he hoped no one
~-- was using it as such.
Mr. Towers declared he was not asking the: Commission to design anything. He
said they designed according to what th.e Code was and started this process back
in January. He said he was not. asknl; them to design it; but give him~~ some ar~rt,of
idea of what would be acceptable.
Deputy Mayor Anderson told him to look at the rendering that shows that style of
home with the SD foot spread.
Mr. Towers said that was telling him to take it down to four (4) units and from a
financial aspect that does not work.
Commissioner Sackett asked how many loin were there at~present.
Mr. Towers said there were three. (3) lots.
Commissioner Sackett said he would then say three (3) units and Mr. Towers
stated that was not economical.
Mr. Roper advised they clarify which. property they were discussing.
Mr. Towers said the property on Bay Avenue was being discussed and three (3)
properties on Bay from the financial aspect would not work. He said somewhere
CC 10-09-06/:27
in between if there was a number they could work with he would then set the
architects in motion. He stated if they were sticking to three (3) then they were at '
an impasse on the Bay Avenue property
Mayor 1Vlaingot thanked Mr. Towers for coming and. addressing the Commission.
He thanked the residents .and said the Commission has listened to what they all
had to say. He said at this point it will go forward through the City Administrator
to the City staff to see if there was someway to work out this situation. He said it
had been stated several times that there were guidelines developed within the
Historic District Code Book and the LDC to be followed. He reiterated, as
Commissioner Bundy stated, Codes were not cast in concrete, but at the same
time, they had to be very cognizant'of the concerns of the people who lime in the
Hisfori'c area.
3. ADJOURN. Mayor 1Vlaingot adjourned the meeting at 9:42 p.m.
John aingo~; Mayor
~_
Linda F. Goff, Recording` cretary
~J
ATTEST:
' ~~
Sarah 14I. Mirus, C1VIC, City Clerk
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