FMTF12-19-06 BOARD OF T][2USTEES '
Florida Municipal Trust Fund :Retirement Plan and Trust
for the Firefighters and Police Officers
Longwood City Commission Chambers
175 West Warren Avenue
Longwood, :Florida
REGULAR MEETING.
MINUTES
December 19, 2006 7:00 p.m.
Present: James Seibert, Vice Chair
Robert Redditt, Secretary '
Jeremiah Brown, Member
Chris Kempf, Member
Carol Rogers, Director of Financial Services
Linda F. Goff, Recording Secretary
Absent: Jack Smythers, Chair
1. Call to Order. Vice Chair Seibert called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
2. ~ Approval of Minutes -September 19; 2006 Regular Meeting.
Secretary Redditt moved to approve the minutes pis submitted. Seconded
by Vice Chair Seibert and carried by a unanimous voice vote with Chair
Smythers absent.
3. Review of Agenda Packet Material.
A. Plan Account Statements.
The 'Plan Account Statements for August, September; and October 2006 were
provided for review. The. Plan Aceol~nt Statement for the period of 10/1/2005
through 9/30/2006 was provided for :review.
i
B. Investment Performance Review.
The Investment Performance Review ending September 30, 2006 was
provided for review.
4. Other Business.
Member Brown said at the last~meetng P?1s. Rogers had stated they fell under the
City's purchasing policy when using the pension funds. F[e said he spoke with
Patricia Shoemaker and she said that was incorrect, that.the Board elects to spend
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the funds as long as it falls within the statutes.
Ms. Rogers .said she had. stated they fall under the same type of policies where the
Board would have.to approve purchases before they were expended.
Member Kempf inquired if they didn't need approval for the actuary statement.
Ms. Rogers explained a single board member did not have authority to expend
money on behalf of the board.
Member Kempf inquired if $822,000 of the $4,000,000 in the fund was the lump
sum amount.
Ms. Rogers advised that was the current value..
Member Kempf inquired if the remainder was considered the fixed amount for
retirement.
Ms. Rogers stated it was the actuarial calculated funding status at this time.
Member Kempf inquired to the number of members in the Florida League of
Cities plan.
Ms. Rogers said she thought approximately 48 plan members; 19 of which were , ~
Firefighters.
Member Kempf said he spoke to Mr. Shamoun regarding the funds. above the base
amount. He stated Mr. Shamoun told him this was going into the lump sum
amount.
Ms. Rogers advised that was the supplemental benefit.
Member.Kempf stated that Mr. Shamoun said this money was for .the Board to
use. however- they .wanted, that it did not have to go into the lump sum.
1VIs. Rogers said the plan that was adopted placed the funds into the benefit.
Member Brown inquired if the members wanted to change the benefit could they
vote to make. this change.
Ms. Rogers said she spoke to Mr. Shamoun today and. that was an issue because
the supplemental benefit was given to the participants and all participants would
need. to be polled. She advised this plan was an IRS and State gratified plan and
would have to go through a process to change anythirig. .
Member Kempf inquired if the "means of fixed_rnonthly compensation paid a ~
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Firefighter and where, as. in the.case of a Volunteer Firefighter,. compensation was
~ derived from actual service rendered, saaary shall be the total cash compensation
received yearly" was in effect now under the Adoption Agreement.
Ms. Rogers said it was in accordance with Chapters 175 and 185 of the Florida
Statutes. She stated the Police was cash :remuneration and for Firefighters it was
monthly salary. She advised they were getting contributed based upon including
overtime, but not including special detail work.
Vice Chair Seibert inquired about the health insurance benefits at retirement.
Ms. Rogers explained that under State Statutes any retiree. can. continue. to
participate in the same plan.
Member Brown stated the employee pays .100% of the insurance at that point. 13e
said other agencies were implementing fixed dollar amounts to help supplement
or offset the cost upon retirement. .
Member Kempf said the funds going into the lump sum could be revised.
Member Brown said they held a conversation with Mr. Shamoun about this and
he stated they did not have just-two accounts and. he had a cost certification for the
City. He said they asked Mr. Shamoun about the lump sum or obligation account
~ and the amount in the account. Mr. Shanroun told them he would need to see art
actuarial review and he would look into the matter. At this time they have not
heard back from him. He said it sounded as if there were three different accounts,
the retirement account, .obligation fund, and surplus account. He handed out a
sheet from the Florida Municipal Pensio~i Trust Fund showing fund balances orr
the Excise Tax information.
Ms. Rogers explained the calculations depend on years of service. She said they
set the calculation date at the first of the ;year because it continuously changes.
She stated the Defined Retirement Accumulation Group.Obligation Fund was
designed to give something equal to what a DROP would generate.
Member Brown said they did not know what the surplus contribution account
was.
Ms. Rogers said. it was at the lump sum account.
Nlember~ Brown said the contribution the City had to put l:orward cannot come
from the surplus contribution account if it is the obligation fund. He inquired what
the surplus contribution. account-versus the obligation fund was.
Ms. Rogers said it was her understanding;'the surplus contribution was anything
over and above what the rate was in 96. E~rrything over that goes into the surplus
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reserve and anything less than or equal to that amount.is used to .fund the City's
contribution. ~ -
Member Brown said $302,000 was the State base so anything over that would go
into the surplus contribution account.
•Ms. Rogers responded in the affirmative..
Member Brown inquired if all of that. was supposed to be .going. into the obligation
fund.
Ms. Rogers responded in~the affirmative, unless there was a~ shortfall:..
Member Brown said when he spoke to Ms. Shoemaker she stated anything over
the $302,000 could not be available to be used if there was a shortfall.
Ms. Rogers said she thought there was a provision.for this;. but she would need to
talk to the actuary that performed the calculations. She advised the State approved
the report.
Member Brown said if there have. been no benefits purchased since 2001,, then
how would the .amount be reduced from $1.4 million to $822',000.
Ms. Rogers aaid she would need to review the .document he w.as referring to •
before she could give'an'answer.
Member Kempf asked what. would happen if they wanted to vote on an ordinance
tonight. , '
The Recording Secretary advised they did not have an ordinance before them to
vote :on.
Member Kempf inquired what if they wanted to present an ordinance to the
Commission..
Member Brown said changes would have to go through the union unless the union
' and/or the City waived their right to negotiate.
Ms. Rogers advised they would also have to do an.impact study.
:.Member Brown inquired when the next Summary Plan would be coming ouf.
Ms. Rogers said she asked Mr. Shamoun today and he~assured her that was being
done along with the actuarial study which was underway. She advised this needed
to be turned into the State by March.
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Member Brown inquired if there was an,y word from Mr. Shamoun regarding the
u- statements.
Ms. Rogers said he told her they were all being done at the same time..
Member Kempf said he wanted to discuss the funds that the Board could use. He
said they could put a part of it in the lump sum.
Member Brown said they first needed to find out where the actual funds were. He
stated Mr. Shamoun made it sound as if there were three separate accounts. He
said they already had the cost study done: for the COLA. He suggested freezing
the lump sum for now and use the funds to offset the cost.
Member Kempf said the lump sum was a great benefit, but it would be better to
use the funds in a way they desire.
Member Brown said it was his understanding, after going to the conference; the
Board would draft language for an ordin~~nce. He said most boards have an
attorney that drafts the language for them. He stated he would like to .hire a .
pension attorney to come to the pension meetings.
Ms. Rogers. advised this generally goes tl.lrough the Pension Plan Administrator.
She said they have an attorney on staff.
Member Brown said the Board could hire; an independent attorney if they were
not comfortable with the Florida League of Cities attorney. He said Ms.
Shoemaker suggested they look at their vvebsite where they have a list of
attorneys that do this type of work. He stated. he would like to set up three or four
attorneys to come to the next meeting anti talk to them. He said Lake Mary has
about the same employee size as Longwood, but their Police and Fire pension
funds were split. He stated their Police fund currently has $6.3 million dollars a:nd
the Fire fund has $3.4 million dollars.
Ms. Rogers said the number of participants would have a bearing and make a big
difference in the fund.
Discussion was held regarding other local municipalities and their Pension funds.
Member Kempf reiterated taking some oil the funds and redirect them towards a
COLA.
Member Brown said the plan members•would like a broad cost study done. He
said they would like to see a 20 and out provision and look at changing the
multiplier to look at 20 at 60%, 20 at 70%~, 20 at 75% and 20 at 80%. He stated
they would like to see the same for a COLA looking at 3% per year, 3% after a 7
year deferment, and 5% every 3 years. He; suggested looking at a broad spectrum
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to have more of an idea of what would. be affordable.
Member Kempf said the cheapest COLA would be the 3% after being deferred at
5 years.
Member Brown said he understood Ms. Shoemaker to say waiving the right to
negotiate was for complete representation. He stated he would call her to clarify
this. He said the pension has never been negotiated through the union.
Ms. Rogers said it was an Article that states it will be equal.
Robert. Ladoczky stated there wasn't an Article in the Police Department's
contract and has never been negotiated.
Member Brown said most of the Police Department was on this Pension Plan
rather than the State Plan.
Member Kempf said he understood that if an ordinance went through the Board
and was presented to the Commission. If the Commission denied it, the matter
could then be union negotiated. .
Ms. Rogers said she had a letter from the Teamsters when this plan was adopted
that they approved it and thought it was an excellent plan. She said it was her
understanding that the union contracts have a statement that the City will provide , ~
a pension plan equal to or better than FRS. She stated she attended the Pension
meetings only as a financial advisory capacity.
Member Brown said they have asked the Florida League of Cities and they were
not getting any clarification.. .
Member Kempf said it would be a good idea to~get someone who can clarify
issues.
Member Brown reiterated they needed to hire a Pension Board Attorney. He said
they could clarify verbiage and they could look at the performance of the fund. He
said there have been huge fluctuations in earnings.
Member Kempf said this was why he wanted to redirect funds.
Ms. Rogers advised they were talking about two separate issues.
Member Brown said the way.the lump sum was worded; unless you retire at 55,
or 10 to 25 years of service, you don't receive the benefit. He said if you left, early
you don't receive it. He inquired if you were vested,, but you. leave after 10 years
of service, at what age you would receive the benefit.
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Ms. Rogers said she believed~'it was age 50. She snid•thei•e was. a conflict and she
had. a draft ordinance being reviewed by the labor attorney to present to equalize
this.
Member Brown said another inconsistency was being vested at- 5 years of service,
but not being eligible to receive disability benefits until 10 years of service.
Ms. Rogers said that was one of the issues being reviewed.
Member Brown said there were several attorneys at the conference, but he would
like to interview Lee Dehner. He inquired how they would go about getting in
contact with the attorneys..
Ms. Rogers advised the Board could vote, to provide a list to the Recording
.Secretary to send out letters.
Member Brown moved to provide the Recording Secretary with a list of
attorneys to contact and invite thf;m to the next meeting. Seconded by
Member Kempf.
Member Brown said a concern some of the Police Department.Plan Members l,ad
was that these meetings needed to be more frequent. He said they have been
asking questions for approximately a year and were, not getting responses in a
timely fashion.
Member Kempf inquired if there was another conference coming up.
Member Brown said there were two a year and the next one would be in
Tallahassee.
Motion carried by a unanimous v~~ice vote with Chair Smythers absent.
5. Member Comments.
Member Brown said the -State Statutes requires there must be a minimum of four
meetings. He said they could meet more often if the Board voted on this.
Ms. Rogers asked if the meeting schedulE; and times were set by the Commission.
The Recording Secretary explained the Commission adopted an Ordinance that
stated the Board and Committee meetings would be .held at 7:00 p.m. in the
Commission Chambers. She said the Board could schedule a Special Meeting.
Discussion was held regarding holding more frequent meetings.
may, Viee Chair Seibert said it was obvious thf,re were questions not being answered so
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they should probably meet morefrequently until:-these questions were answered.
Ms. Rogers said they could petition the Commission to meet more frequently.
' Member Brown moved to hold a Special Meeting on January 16, 2007 at
7:00 p.m. to bring forth a list of attorneys to interview. Seconded by
Member Kempf and carried by a unanimous voice vote with Chair
Smythers absent. - - - - ~ °
6. Public-Participation.
Robert Ladoczkv, Teamsters Loca1385, said he was. also a full time employee
with the Longwood Police Department. He said he was under the Florida
Retirement System, but. was here on behalf of the. members under the. Florida
League of Cities. He said he may have missed it, but they were still looking for
the definition of the Surplus Contribution Account. He inquired where the money
came from for that account. and why the Board didn't know it existed. if they were
in control of those funds. ~ -
Member Brown said until he attended the conference he had a lot less knowledge
about this which was why they were asking these questions.
Mr. Ladoczkv asked if there were two accounts for the pension. or ,three accounts.
.
Ms. Rogers advised there was one fund.
Mr. Ladoczkv .inquired why there was an account that has been identified. to Mr.
Brown by 1VIr. Shamoun and the Board did not know about this account..
Ms. Rogers advised there was an accounting of the allocation of the pooled funds
broken down by years.
Mr. Ladoczkv inquired how long this has been in existence.
Ms. Rogers said. it has been existent since 1.999. She advised the information has
been available in the actuarial report and the' State, report.
Vice. Chair Seibert said there had:never been an issue brought up about this
matter.
Ms. Rogers said when Mr. Shamoun. attended. the, Board meeting there were
lengthy discussions. about the Defined.Refirement Accumulation Group
Obligation Fund.
Mr. Ladoczkv inquired if that was where the lump sum came from.
-
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Ms. Rogers responded in the affirmative:.
Mr. Ladoczkv inquired if the retirement benefit was the defined benefit each.
member received upon retirement was v~hat their monthly pension would be.
Ms. Rogers responded in the affirmative.
Mr. Ladoczkv asked what the Surplus Contribution account was.
Ms. Rogers explained that was.where the supplemental benefit came from.
Mr. Ladoczkv inquired who had control of that account.
Ms. Rogers explained it was not a separate account. It was a fund balance that
was part of the entire. pool: 'She said this Pension Plan was aggregated with
anybody else that participates with the Municipal Pension Trust Fw1d. She stated
there was an accounting for every year fir the surplus money available, plus it
earns money while sitting there and has ;gown; as of today, to $822,.1.97.08.
Mr. Ladoczkv said he was in the FRS so he was trying to understand this. He said
the way it was presented to one of his members was that there was a third account
and to the best of Mr. Brown's knowledge it .did not exist. He said. he heard easier
during the meeting that the State incentive and the service bonus that the Police:
Department members get was not included in their final compensation.
Ms. Rogers said they were reading the df;finition out of Chapters 175 and 185 of
the State Statutes.
Member Brown stated the Police. Department's. was total :pay and overtime.
Mr. Ladoczkv said he would like to receive a copy of the letters Ms. Rogers
referred to from the Teamsters. He said h.e would assume these were regarding the
proposed changes to the fund that were made shortly after the Teamsters took
over. He said at no time had the Teamsters or the PBA negotiated the retirement
benefits: He declared there was no inforniation in the .contract or Article regarding
pension or retirement. He said he would ~.iot say-the union would be willing to
waive the rights to negotiate retirement until the members give that- okay. He
inquired if there was an answer regarding. the. buy back of military time.
Ms. Rogers said she interpreted the buy back for FRS to be specific to designated
times.
Mr. Ladoczkv said this was irrelevant to ]FRS, he was inquiring to the Florida
League of Cities plan regarding military l~uy back.
~ Ms. Rogers advised they have not requested any kind of calculations on it and it
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was not a part of the plan. She said one of the- participants had indicated he was
interested in buying back time.
Mr. Ladoczkv said the member had not received a response as to whether he can
or not buy back his military time.
Ms. Rogers said she would research the matter,. but. it was her. understanding it
was not a part of this plan.
Mr. Ladoczkv said the City has had Florida League of Cities Pension since 1.996
and to date he did not know of anybody who has received an annual statement
that tells them the value of their~pension. He stated FRS members receive one
annually. He said no one he was aware of .had received an annual statement and
-had. no idea what their pension was worth: He said they have their check stubs that
show how much they have contributed, but this did' not give a value of their
pension based on the City's contribution. •
Ms. Rogers advised neither the members' contribution nor the. City's contribution
was a factor in what their Pension was worth. She said it was a Defined Benefit
Plan. "
NIr. Ladoczkv said he was aware. of that; .buts the members would like. to see an
annual statement.
Ms. Rogers said Mr. Shamoun has assured her there would be individual
statements provided as a part of this actuarial study being done.
Mr. Ladoczkv inquired to the City's contribution in October 2006 being
significantly more than the normal contribution over the history of the plan. He
said it looks like it was compensation for the questions that were being asked.
Ms. Rogers said there was an accounting done at the end of the year. of what the
total salaries were and computed what the required contribution was and that was
. the catch up contribution. She stated members. can call her with questions. She
explained the City's required contribution increased. this year and each year would
escalate. She said this was. in the actuarial report. She explained when payroll is
done, the estimated rate is set and at the end of the year they go back and calculate
to see if they made the required contribution. She said it is sometimes done.
quarterly, but this year it was done at the end of the year.
Forrest Price,. said he works for the Police Department. He stated he would like
this explained so he can understand. The contribution they are talking about has
been between $2.,000 and $5.,000 since 1999 and now it was $62,000 because the
amount the City contributes. has changed.
Pension 12-19-06/10
Ms. Rogers said she did not know where the $62,000 amount they were saying
came from.
Member Brown said it came from the FL~rida League of Cities website showing
employee, state, and city contributions.
Ms: Rogers said they entered that information.
Mr. Price inquired. if this had. the employee contribution, the state contribution,
and the city contribution all listed.
Ms. Rogers responded in the affirmative,.
Mr. Price. said he was trying to understar.{d and Ms. Rogers ..had stated the actuary
showed the City had to contribute more money to the fund.
Ms. Rogers said every year the City's contribution would increase. She explained
as more members were participating and the longer they have been here had a
bearing on the funding status. She added that the performance of the fund was
also a factor.
Member Brown said the amount the City must contribute would fluctuate.
Mr. Price inquired if the Florida League Hof Cities sent out the individual annual
statements.
Ms. Rogers advised the Florida League of Cities was suppose to send these out.
She stated she has never seen one since she has been with the City. She said they
have assured her they would provide the statement. She advised she could do a
calculation for individuals.
Mr. Price said he would like an answer at the next meeting to when he would
receive a statement.
Ryan Bruce said he works for the Police Department and he was also at the last
meeting. He stated he did not think anyo~ie wanted to make any accusations, but
there were a lot of questions being asked with no one being given the
responsibility to explain the plan and ho~v it works. He said by people saying they
are not sure or don't know to questions, they have been given the impression that
something. is not right. He said he would like whoever is responsible for the City
part of the plan to be at the meetings to answer the questions. He stated Paul
Shainoun needed to be held to a higher sl:andard also. He said they were
concerned with what was going on and those who are going to be retiring want to
know what their benefits are going to be and where. they will stand as they get
older. He stated if a COLA was a better way to go, then this needed to be
presented to the members to vote upon. 1=1e declared something needed to change
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and ,it appears that Longwood is lagging behind in their options for benefits.
7. Adjournment. Viee Chair Seibert adjourned the meeting at 8:40 p.m.
G~
Jack Smyth rs, Chair
ATTEST:
Linda F. Goff, Recordi Secretary
.
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