CCMtg01-15-03SMMinLONGWOOD CITY COMMISSION
Longwood City Commission Chambers
175 W. Warren Avenue
Longwood, Florida
MINUTES
SPL,CIALMEETING
JANUARY 15, 2003
7:(to P.M.
Present: Mayor Dan Anderson
Deputy Mayor Steve Miller
Commissioner Botdh Bundy
Commissioner Pool Lovestrand
Commissioner John C. Md og't
John J. Drag., City Administrator
Ridhard S. Taylor, Jr., City Attorney
1. CALL to ORDER
Mayor And— culled a special mooting to order in 7C0 In,,
2. ANNOUNCEMENT,
Mnyor AH-- announced rho following:
The ntembersofihe loon.-d City Commission, Mayor Dan Anderson, Deputy
Mayor Steve Miller, Contmissi— Butch Bundy, Commissioner pain
Los- i-,loud Commissioner John C. Mam,Cil Qlm,-is e1—d session
-1h the City At—", Richmd S Taylor, Jr., John .1- Orogo. City Adnwrisirntor
:md a Coan lieponer for the purpose of di --mg pending Flinn ion (swtlemcnt
negotiations a odstratdgysesslon) with tlorida power Coi,,—ion. The
h% Tmaced length of Im. for the dlo d —ion meeting will be one (1) hour.
m-mgtvill he aondacted in aocordunae with Florida Smoo,12RG011(8)'
3. ANNOUNCE TIM E OF RECESS TO CLOSED SESSION.
Mnyor Anderson annnunded n 7:01 p.m. htat the Cumnt:.sion would recess
imo n closed sesswn
CC 01-15-031291
4. IF( ONVIAI" , III ljlN0I ICE I'llil, 11111 OR
IDJ " I RNIIWI M, o O,FD 'F"'10"
Ifill", "I'll ..... .. [—d
stun al 9'20 P-ni-
120
CC Ol 16-03/292
LONGWOOD CITY COMMISSION
175 West Warren Avenue
Longwood, Florida
JanuarV 15, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
. . ........
A P P E A --RA .
Y RICHAR➢ TAYLOR, CITY ATTORNEY
PAN ANDC.ASON, MAYOR
JOHN J. ➢RAGO, CITY ADMINISTRATOR
STF.VE MILLER, DEPUTY MAYOR
BUTCH EUN➢Y, COMMISSIOISSNER
PAUL LOVESTRAND, COMMIONER
SOHN C. MAINGOT, COMMISSIONER
I N D -R.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS i
CF,RTIFICATE OF REPORTER I55
13
1
r
A
R C E E I) I N G S
MR. I—LOR: The packages hope£u11y you had a
chance to review them. I finished getting them
ready on Monday and asked chat they get
distributed as quickly as possible.
Some things came up wi,h a funeral I had to
go to out of town and some other things. I had
hoped to get them to you by the weekend, but that
didn't happen. I had some —11 surgery on
day.
"' I did spend a gocd part of an afternoon
right before the holidays with representatives of
Florida Power going over my laundry lice of
objections or problems that I saw in the
settlement agreement as we11 as the franchise
agreement.
It was a productive meeting. I felt that
they did somewhat for a change negotiate in good
faith. They actually came vn and had a pretty
positive atereude about trying eo make some
compromises. That being said, there's still some
things in here of great substance that this
Commission needs to make a decision on on whether
they can live with or not lrve with it, as far as
some major matt eY9.
0.
And Chose are really areas in a little bit in
favored nations, some things that we discussed and
some things that 2 think need to be added. And
the other mole major Ching that still remains rn
this agreemene Chat I don't think should be in
here - and I'm not saying that doesn't -- and P.
not telling you when I say chat you should or
should not approve the agreement.
Any agreement 2've eves negotiated
practically does not have any negotiating on their
behalf. I argued that stranded costs should not
be in this agreement whatsoever. That they're
going to have 30 years in which to recoup eheir
should be enticed to stranded costa.
Ana, of e..r their reaponae to that. ie.
Well, you can argue that 30 years from now and
maybe you'll —.
So we want that ability to be able to argue
with me and they havens quite -- they've come
real close -- there's a few references to it that
I chink [he additional references are necessary in
some places. And maybe in one or t o, they're not
Co the word stranded costs because to refer back,
but if you'11 notice in here, there.. a version
that s a clean version and the version you
probably ought to look et ie the version that has
the stricken eh rough -- well, when I say that --
MR. ANDERSON: The settlement agreement --
MR. TAYLOR. -- there's actually a settlement
agreement and there's the - which is -- they
nevez gave me a stricken through version of that.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: And that actually when I -- I
s tasted actually looking at that. I cook is with
me on the first o£ the year On a hunting trip I
It on with my son and was sitting there going
over it. And I went, wow, they really had massed
a lot. I cant wait to get to the franchise
because, you know, I m going to have a field day
with it.
Eue I had more changes in the short
settlement agreement than I did probably in the
enci re franchise agreement.
A lot of what 1 changed in the settlement
agreement is the way they just saw the way our
agreement should be worded. And when I looked at
it, I go: -11, I could see some ambiguities Or
I— this could be construed differently el I need
r
this additional sentence added in or paragraphs in
some ih-- in tid— to do that.
And I'll not 91— RItk t, them. I figured I
—.1d —it and -1k t. you and —, -- if
th—t, any additional changes y., .— it 14j,.
that I —p11.i—d on that you I— Huh-.h.
don —1 to t—PI—it, that. Or If there's
something cold them thought we won It
compromise on that y., will it--- That, if
course, we get the final decision i— f... you.
MR. LOVEST— The settlement It—ht is
What .— that settlement agreement and Why d. we
have � to h.11 . settlement .91-- Why di— we
just have a franchise?
MR. TAYLOR: Well, and that's a q..d
settlement agreement that —111— , 1- f Ihi,,,
arising out of [he litigation and the payment of
612.
MR. —.AT—: —y. W. said we re going
Co go by what the court said.
MR. —OT:
MR TAYLOR And it Will they
01
yay the check for 612, once ehe Supreme Covre
makes its decision, a lot of things ehae donut
really belong in [he franchise agreement because
they won t have arty applicability once a check is
cut, once the Supreme Court rules.
in fact, they wanted to -- and I chink I have
moved a Eew things that they talked about Chat
were cn the franchfse agreement originally and
wanted eo move them to the settlement agreement
because they didn't have any long-term effects.
And I told them I didn't care where all these
terms and conditions were as long as they were on
the settlement agreement first then?
MR. TAYLOR: Sure.
MR. MAINOOT: With your --
order you chink we should have cackled this?
MR. TAYLOR: The settlement agreement?
MR. TAY— Yeah. I would say e can start
from the settlement agreement.
MR. MAIN40T. These are the two.
MR. ANDERS— Okay.
r
r
MR. LOVEETRAND: It's dated November 12eh?
Yours is much thicker ehan mine.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, I've goe my original
copies, the ones Ear. gave me, my originals back
and some others. So I don't think yours is
e hic ke r.
MR. MILLER: The November 121h one is the
settlement agreement iC self? which one --
MR. ANDERSON: I though[ I had --
MR. MILLER: I thought we had one later than
that.
MR. AND —ON: - this is from Gall December
MR. MILLER:
MR. DRAGO:
Where's November 27th?
There are just --
MR. TAYLOR:
You need to have one that when
you get to Page
scratch all over
MR. DRAGO.
!counting] 2, you see my bird
it.
That's Steve, right there.
MR. MAINGOT:
MR. DRAGO:
it,
Right.
That's it Chat you have in your
hand.
MR. LOVESTRAMD.
MR. MILLER.
MR. TAYLOR!
This one here.
11 s this one.
That one right there.
r,
MR. MILLER: I didn't see any bird - oh.
MR. ANDERSON: At the beginning it says: For
I-- to amend.
MR. MASNGOT: For leave - amend.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
MR. MILLER. What's it say?
MR. MAINGOT: For leave to amend.
MR. MILLER: Then is the December 3— one,
right?
MR. MAINGOT. I think you're on the right
MR. AMAERSON: That's what I qot. Correct.
MR. DRAGO: Just flip two pages, Steve.
MR. ANDERSON: A couple pages more.
MR. DRAGO: Then you q.t it.
MR. TAYLOR: Page 3 of ,
MR. MILLER: Settlement agreement.
MR. TAYLOR: Now, keep going.
MR. MILLER. Oka,
MR. MAINGOT: Turn. Right. 'there you qo.
MR. TAYLOR: Settlement agreement, all these
recitals, I didn't have any problems with
recitals, the terms.
But go ace wally - lust so we kind of g
through this thing and we can also, if you care
lo
co, an your packet should be my letter of November
12eh chat talks about the settlement agreement, so
you can kind of go along and see where I asked for
things and where they did or did not do Chem.
MR. MILLER: Ed, the sake of argument, I'm
going Co number chew pages, beginninq with face
as Number 1, 2, 3, 4, I --
MR. AMEEREON: Starti ny with the cover
i eeeer?
MR. TAYLOR. The cover letter from Gail?
MR. MILLER: We got 12 pages.
MR. ANEERSON: Yes.
MR. MILLER. The cover letter being Number I.
So for the sake of argument and getting 1ost, we
know which page to go to, if that's okay with you
guys.
MR. ANDERSON: That's fair.
MR. MAINGOT: So for leave to amend 11 page
what.
MR. MILLER. Right here, Page 1 --
Ed, ERAGO: a.
MR. MILLER: The cover page is Page 1 --
MR.-I—T: all -—
MR, MILLER: -- then 2, then 2 --
0-
MR. ANDER.SON: P19s I .is what I got.
MR. MILLER: - Chen 4, so on and so forth.
There's 12 pages.
MR. TAYLOR: The settlement agreement warts
on Page 2,
MR. LOVESTRAND: 3.
MR. TAYLOR: Recitals ere on 3, right) Or
did you actually --
MILL— MY. The settlement agreement is
Page 3.
MR. ANDERSON: That's what I thought.
MR. TAYLOR: So you did this as Page 1?
MR. LOVEETRAND. Recitals are Page 4.
MR. MILLER: The cover page is Page 1.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Yeah.
MR, ANDERSON: That's correct.
MR. MILLER. Yes. So ehae way we can say,
well, it says on the cover -- on Page 1, Gai.l
Simpson that the phone number is such -and -such.
MR. ANDERSON: That makes sense.
MR. MILLER. It apes.
[Pause in the Proceedings]
MR. TAYLOR. Starting on Page
a Illy Page 5 on terms, on the dismissal, one of
my objections was they only had us dismissing our
..it and now it has both cases being dismissed.
That was kind of to me a —
brain -MR. LOVESTRANO. So they went along with you?
MR. TAY — Right. And on my Number 2 in my
November 12th letter -- i m kind of following my
letter and going through this agree — at the
MR. ANDERSOM. Okay.
MR. TAY— - Calking about releases
referring to pending litigation, they make -- on
Page 6, where I made some additions and, again,
these a_en t things they haven'[ agreed to but
things that I think need to be clarified. And
then 1— point out things they haven't agreed to
as we go through.
I ve added a sentence. The su s presently
continue to be collected until the new franchise
takes effect. I cant .imagine, though, they're
going to have any problem with that. Eut I— i
Something else the way this is worded now is
that they're only making a claim, as I see this,
tO money chat was paid, that 800-and.some.thousand
was paid pursuant to the November 15th court
o-der. The way I word this agreement, and we
talked about this, is releasing that other
$462,0", which is over half a million now.
MR. MILLER: Right.
MR. TAYLOR: I told Chem -- asked them about
back dating this franchise back till May of this
year, so that chose franchises would be included.
And they said: wet.l, we'll check on that. I
doo't know if we'll do that. I don't know if it s
legal.
And I said: I'm not sure if It ie o_ not.
But that would take care of that 462. Well, they
didn't back date the franchise. But the way
they've worded this, in my opinion, it releases
the 462 and only specifically makes a claim to the
— and -some thousand dollars.
MR. TAYLOR: well, that's already been paid
co the city. That's already in our -- that s the
money that's been collected each month. They've
increased it every month.
MR. LO—TRANB. No. They were going to give
MR. LOVESTRAND: -- - plus 462.
MR. TAYLOR: 612.
MR. LOVESTRAMD: 612.
MR. TAYLOR! Right.
MR. LOVEETRAMD: They're still going Co give
us Che 612.
MR. BANDY. Yes.
MR. LOVESTRAMD: Plus they have no claims on
whare been collected?
MR. TAYLOR: That's Che way I word iC.
MR. MILLER: Exactly. Just like we said
I—— we are -- we re 600-and-some hundred
thousand dollars better off than we were four
weeks ago.
I don't have any problem with that; do you?
MR. TAYLOR: I mean, ehat's the way I
understand it,
MR. MILLER. Yeah, We11, Chat was the whole
I— of everything.
MR. TAYLOR: Now, didn'e leave - It, Cola
well --
MR. LOVESTRAND: That was our final offer.
MR. BANDY: The only moneton it makes in here
Co fees to re,ov Ybility of fees is Che November
t Ilh 0-1.
MR. MAINGOT. Right.
MR. TAYLOR: That's where 'I got that from.
MR. B Y; That's the only - so they
E.— --
MR. TAYLOR: Claim they're putting in here.
MR. —EY; So eh, don't -- yeah. They
don c put a claim in this settlement agreement on
chat money, then --
MR. MILLER. Exactly.
MR. BANDY. - they have no claim.
MR. MILLER; Exaccly.
MR, LOVESTRAND: Okay. Let's move on.
MR. TAYLOR: Okay. In any Case, I—, --
MR. BANDY. I would think.
MR. ANDERSON: Well --
MR. BUNDY. I mean, the Court could sole
otherwise.
MR. MILLER. Yeah. Bnn that, what we were
working towards anyway; wesen t we.
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: I mean, that was my
understanding of it.
MR. LOVESTRAND: My understanding was sauce
we cant gee that 152 (sic], you give
And they said: Okay. Well give it [o you.
r
r
16
MR. MILLER: Yut as a bonus.
MR. —DY: Ae a bonus.
MR. MILLER: That was my impression. Ic s a
bonus, okay -
MR. BANDY. That's $612,DOo --
MR. LOVESTRAND: Right.
MR, TAYLOR. EUC Che last thing we Calked
about --
MR. LOVESTRAND: That we gel no maccer what.
MR. TAYLOR: - was --
MR. MAINGOT: The 452 or 462?
MR. MILLER. The 462 --
MR. MAINGOT: 962.
MR. MILLER: -- plus the 150.
MR, ANDERSON: Try co go one at a trme for
her.
MR. DEAGO: One It a Cvme.
MR. TAYLOR: Right. The 462 was something
Chat the lase tame we calked that and the s00-and-
someching we_e going Co remain under the umbrella
of the Supreme Court decision.
MR. MILLER: ..orrecc.
MR. TAYLOR: And what I brought in to them
was, 1e— back date the Franchise and/or
otherwise release _he 962 to try and sweeCen Che
ol
0-
And quite frankly, my Position was and 1 just
told Gail Simpson -- and their attorney was here,
coo -- and Gail and t went back and forth on this.
told Chem, you know, a- they had to pay even the
650, release it, and if they had to eat it later
on en my opinion, just looking it the dollars and
change to them compared to what they stood to lose
So, 1 guess, some If the negotiating that I
did worked becauss the only thing I see an here,
as Butch said, is a claim to the November 15th
court order, which is the e00-and-some thousand
dollars.
MA. ANDERSON; My only concern on that is
this is a specified claim. it d—l— preclude
I— also claiming something out of this
agreement.
MA. LOVESTR-D. But the whole agreement
does. The agre dt is to settle.
MR. —El— Fair enough.
25I b,g --ng that says: This resolves all claims
stemming out of the two lawsuits.
MR. —EY: wending litigations.
MR. MILLER. Yeah. Hut remember the 012,000
and ehe 965, 000, okay, iC was money that was kind
of encvmbe red.
MR. ANNEREON: L -hum.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR. And the 900 -
MR. MILLER: But then we told Chem -- we told
Ghem if you free up the $460, 000, okay, we'll
agree Co gO by --
MR. ANOERSON: Yes.
MR. MILLER: -- the other.
MR. ANEEREON: The other.
MR. MILLER. Well, they came back with a
counteroffer and says: Well, we don't want to
free up your $960,000.
MR. LOVESTRAND: 260.
MR. MILLER: We'11 just give you an exe ra
$300,000 — whatever it was.
MR. —OR! Right.
MR. LOVE$TRANO: 200.
MR. MILLER: Okay. We11, that didn't work.
Okay. So we told them remember we all sat here
talking about it - go back and Celt Chem, we wane
r
460,000 plus 150 no .—I what.
MR. ALDERSON: Um -hum.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Well, n , they've given
us $612, 000 and we sti11 based on this court order
may end up with 812 [sic] pl— another 465. IS
that not correct.
MR. 'TAYLOR: 612.
MR, MILLER. 4lha1-- Oka,
MR. TAYLOR: And depending on the Supreme
Court thing, another 800-and-some-thousand.
MR. MILLER. That's correct.
MR. TAYLOR: We stand to lose that depending
on the ruling of the Supreme Court and some other
thin95. x added in - and I'm getting ahead of
myself. I'll cell you what I added in and why
when we get to it because otherwise I'm going to
have you confused if I keep jumping ahead with my
thoughts.
MR. MAINGOT: I'm just trying to follow
your --
MR. TAYLOR: Page 6 again. Up at the cop
where you see, I put: Upon A favorable Tu1in9 of
I he -- to Florida Power corporation by the Supreme
Cou_t, Florida Power Corporation may seek to
recover the amounts paid under the -- I wanted it
2t
made very clear when we re calking about favorable
ruling in the Supreme Court case and referring to
Che —ter Park Bel -Aire cases and it had nothing
to do wieh any Supreme Court case or any ocher
case dealing with the City of Longwood.
And, again, down below where it says: Ruling
in the Wine er Park or Bel -Aire cases because there
it says Florida Supreme Court does not allow FPC
to recover From the City Chose monies paid to Che
�.. MR. TAYLOR: And the Supreme Court -- it
implies Che wayworded, the Supreme Court
doesn't III. then. to recover from the City of
Longwood. Well, they're going to rule on the City
don't have a dog in that race directly; it's just
indirectly.
MR. MILLER: Not only that that will preclude
-- eha[ will stop them from filing against us
trying to -- -- even if they have to pay [he
other cities, right?
MR. MAINOOT: Well, one is contingent On the
other.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, yeah. On the one, on the
Winter Park, I mean, they're going to either --
MR, LO—TRAND: The wording keeps us out of
court unless Winter Park fights it.
MR. MILLER: That's correct.
MR. TAYLOR: And something else -- and I m
going to go ahead and jump ahead anyway.
Something y.........
u'll see later on chi[ 2've done is,
as of eoday or s of last week Co my knowledge,
the F_orida Supreme Court -- maybe just because of
backlog and the administration and So forth, had
not taken jurisdiction of those cases.
So then an issue comes up, where if they
never took jurisdiction?
We11, if they never cake jurisdiction, Chen
the Fifth D.i strict court of Appeals in Daytona --
MR. MAINGOT. Stands.
MR. —OR: -- controls our case.
MR. MAINGOT: Exactly.
MR. TAYLOR. So I've added a provision in
there that they don't know about yet that says.
In the unlikely event -- and it rs very unlikely,
I'd be shocked if the Supreme Court didn't take
jurisdiction of these two cases. eur if they
didn't, then the prevailing It. in this dist ti<t
is the Fifth and we get that $—,000.
MR. 'LA1— - then we re - all right.
What do we do now. We didn't cover that
contingency in this agreemene.
So I added Chat in as I m thinking as I've
read this thing 50 times.
MR. MILLER: Right.
MR, T-LOR: Another thing in hl— is they --
they did not ever want to agree, they still have
not. agreed that should they lose in the Supreme
Court as to W.i— Park, it states to there:
Nothinq herein sha1.1 be construed as a wa — of
FPC s ability to seek to colle ce the monaes from
And I adaea in -- and at one poi- it stated
-- but really didn't take a st..ong position at
this last meeting, that they didn't want us to be
able to ,l Florida Public Service Commission. And
I told Chem that's not going to fly, but it not
23
1— —d If left -- you 1-11 — lh1h
their biI,1, t, collect the 111, —Id —p -
9 t. the EhElil Service C-11—,, and
g—'q against it,
'.I' It speri Eically in 1— or the ability
ME the City to oppose the collection If the f—
from customers. 11 that 11 have the ability -- I
Chink as individuals no one could stop you anyway.
Rut think if the City Commission htl I. take
stand against that .. behalf If its citi —, t,
ought to b, able t. do — And I added chat i,,
ehe re.
MR. MILLER: We can —i- 1 Teeter to anybody
MR. --T: Well, I already have Chat I.
record, M_. Chairman, 11,11t 1p,,,i,' totally any
reposition of the fees on our people.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. But 11 already -- I think
we already decided th—1 —11y not up I.
MR. MAINMOT: Yeah.
MR.
LOVESTE—D : That's light. —I up to
the court.
MR. MILLER: .. ... oppose
MR. —NGOT That 11 LI —y
MR. LOVESTRAND: Individually.
MR, MILLER. We can oppose it. Hue 1 s
really --
MR. TAYLOR: Now, I added this language and
I'll just go ahead and read it.
MR. LOVESTRAN➢: What page?
MR. TAYLOR. It doesn't -- I'm st i11 on Page
6. It doesn't - at the bottom. It doesn't
change what we agreed to, But what they wrote to
me as to the Supreme Court cases and the Bel -Aire
cases and so forth left a Sot If ambiguity that
could cause problems lacer on.
So I added and inserted at the top of the
page. I wrote at the bottom, but you can see my
line up to where I inserted it at the Cop. The
part res agree to be bound by the decisions of the
Florida Supreme Court and ehe Wintez Park and/or
Bel -Aire cases and said cases shall control
whether PPC shall have any right to recover the
amounts paid by FPC to the City per the November
15nh, 2002 order.
MR. —MRQT. Right.
MR. TAYLOR: Then --
MR. MILLER. What if they rule differently on
one than ehe other?
25
MR. TAYLOR: Well, listen Co th, — of —t
I—dilq bIll— they have Co rule one
—M or ehe ocher on ce rC am issues. There's more
Chan one issue an th-
MR. MILLER- —
MR. TAYLOR: S, I didn't —t them to come
h,
well, we won pare of that case. It has no[ni ng
do with
e collection of Eees. But we won this
tiny
little
ti d-- ehae has —hi,, to do —1
the collection of fees.
don't —t that t. happen.
in 1: mitldle I the page, I ltlltll Illd IhIl
I went R:,L. the top because I ran out .,
--
MR. TAYLOR: Although h— may be —Y-1
issues being d before ehe
Ih, winter Bark and eel -Aire cases, the only issue
't, —111—t to this stipulation and settlement
9_— i. —Lh— FPC had
contrnue collecting franchise fees once the
franchise expired.
if theFloridaM,p.... Court —1. with the
P,
lI
decision of the Second District Court of Appeal in
Bel -Aire, then FPC shall be entitled to the return
of the funds paid pursuant to the order of
November 151h, 2002.
If the ...rich Supreme Court rulas with the
decicion of the Fifth District Court of Appeal., .in
the Winter Park case, then FPC shall not be
entitled to the return of the funds paid Pursuant
to the order of November 15th, 2002.
MR. LOVESTRAND: And Chen you got see what?
MR. RRAGO: Above.
MR. TAYLOR: See above.
MR. LOVESTR r Okay. I see it.
MR. TAYLOk: Should the Florida Supreme Court
refuse to Cake jurisdiction of the Winter Park
case and the decicion of the Fifth DCA remains in
full force and effect, then the City of Longwood
shall keep all of the franchise fee paid pursuant
to the court order of November 15th, 2002.
MR. ANDERSON: So you just nailed it down
MR. LOVESTRAND. All the possibilities.
MR. ANDERSON. Yeah. tut the portion of Bel -
Aire that regarded the collection of the fees, if
they rule for you there, then we re bound eo that
r
z�
portion of Winter Park regarding the collecci on of
the fees.
MR. TAYLOR: Right. And if they refuse eo
cake jurisdiction, we win—1—tica11y.
MR. AN➢ERSON: due none of the other fssues
because the ocher cities do have slightly
different issues.
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. 8CMDY: Because Winter Park won at the
Fifth Diseric[.
MR. MAIN— But it is my understanding Chat
en the Fifth District Court of Appeal ruling on
the case - in the case of War -ter Park chat Chey
directed Florida Power to pay the City out o-
their pockets.
MR. TAYLOR: I recall -- I m not saying they
didn't. I don't recall that being the case. I'm
not saying you're wrong. I don't chink they
would --
MR. AMOERSON: I only reed Chat they had to
pay it.
MR. DRAGO: The dispute was when --
MR. MAINGOT: I recall having seen that.
MR. ➢RAGO: The dispute was when the Ci-11
Cou_t ruled in Winter -1— it—, the Judge
P
Ildt—d the —t— -- d1 the — to to
.t,,..d pending appeal. 0— they 91t appealed
that the Fifth ➢ist—1 -1- 1— Florida P11—
,I, should have paid th,, It— all 11-9 because
you were h tenant i, --. Then that —1—d
the money t. Winter Park that the —11 had held
in Orange County.
— .—h— 1-1 - I— Florida P-1
decided t. —1 it bI1.11I they had a different
decision i,, Bel -Aire. SI they --d to
consolidate it IIJ hopefully they would wan and
— the --y —ld get 11-111d it them.
of your pocket. They said: Florid, you —d to
g— this City 11 the Court the --d --t.
—11 hold it till y., appeal, whatever the
.,Y.. 11 til— to —t— It— — they
still have the light now t, 9, back t. Florida
P..t,, the P,—, 8—t" Commission, if they d,
We —t I —1th—, --
MR. C—LOR! You k... 1—thl, hill
MR. MILLER: But they would —,yI have that
right .Y.
29
MR. TAYLOR: -- as you go through this thing,
I've been through it many ttmes and everytime you
go through, comet-mes there's another little thing
[hat comes up. And what you just said John
reminded if this.
They've already verbally agreed, but it needs
[o be io ws ting, that should the Public Service
Commission agree to allow them to backcharge it,
that the maximum they would charge be "x amount
of dolla-s per month n Customer. So that
someone is no[ going to get a bill £o'r two or
three or four oc $500 all at once. They've agree[
MR. DR — [Nods head affirmatively)
MR. TAYLOF. And I don't think they would. I
don't think ihey'ce Chat stupid to do that. But
you also would have people beating down the font
doors of city ha11 if that ever happened.
MR. LOVESTRAVO: They also have the
logistical problem of the people that move, the
new people and the old.
P.
MR. AMDERSOM: And that's not our problem.
MR. LOVESTRAMD: It's It minor when some --
between 10 and 20 percent of an area moves out
every year.
MR. BUMBY: I think they also s nulated that
in the event that they -- you know, that the --
they couldn't collect from the previous people who
had moved that they would absorb those costs on
their own. That they would absorb those coats.
MR. TAYLOR: And they agreed to Chat in open
MR. BUMDY. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR. Of course, that all goes away
when the court when the decision goes away.
And that's another thin, we could add in here.
There'a no provision that they could somehow
backcharge us.
I mean, if they seek to collect to it and
re s nos there then there's nothinq il here that
says if we go to look for the customer --
MR. BUMDY. I would rather --
MR. TAYLOR: -- and they're not there, we re
yoing to make you pay.
MR. BUMDY. -- have Chem specify that in the
event they cannot -- that they cannot 1ocate old
f
0-
P.
31
customers, I think it would be good for that to be
stipulated in these because they try to convince
the public Service Commf ssron, well, you know,
that's - that should be dispersed or collected
from among Che rest of the customers or ehe
exc —, customer base or whatever.
MR. A DERSOM: I don't see that as an .ssue.
MR. LOVESTRAND: We11, I Chink
Ma. 1-1: And I also think they wouldn't
have any problem agreeing to that if you want to
put that in here.
MR. MILLER: I donut think the Public Service
Commission is going to let Chem do it anyway.
Really, I mean, ,ve need to line it out that they
need a cap. We need to cap the amount that they
can Collect, if they agree.
MR. ANDEREON: We11, but, see, tha['a --
again, I don't think that that's an issue for us
because ehe Public Service Commission has
� isdiceaon ove-
MR. MILLER: Yes. They do.
MR. ANDEREOM: -- how they're 9oin9 to
collect and how m.ch and --
MR. MILLER: Ail they have to do is go up
r
32
there and say -- and they don't even have to tell
Chem it'I for franchise fees. They just Cell
them: Look, we re taking a loss on something.
Okay?
MR. BUNDY. No. They got Co Cell Chem.
Franchise fees ar- a direct pass through cost.
MR. MILLER: You re right. Except for one
small minor detail, okay, they can open a line
item rn their budget and show a loss in it on some
other whatever, who knows. It could be totally
fabricated.
MR. BUNDY: Uh-huh.
MR. MILLER. And go right Co Che Vublie
Service Comm.v ssvon and collect it under a
different line item.
MR. BUNDY: And they do that --
MR. EUNDY: And if they were Co do It— they
would be bankrupt faster than Enron.
MR. MILLER. I don't know.
MR. LOVESTRAND. They do watch the accounting
pretty close.
MR. BUNDY: It, yeah. I mean, they --
MR. MILLER. Noe to be a stick in the mud,
but I.11 cell you what, Tampa Electric Company, I
had a friend that worked there for many, many
years. And every year those birds would spend
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of
dollars on Christmas parties for their employees
and then turn around and go to the Public Service
Commission the next year for a rate increase.
MR. EVNnY. Well., if they do it under the
guise of a rate rtcre ass, then ehat's someehihy
that's totally within their purview.
MR. LOVESTRANO. The Christmas I litt.bly --
MR. —OY; But they can t come rn and say:
We re, you know, operating at a loan.
MR. LOVEST— That's a normal thing. The
Public Ee ry ice Commission allows a Christmas
party.
MR. MAINOOT: Okay.
MR. AMOERSON: Next ltem.
MR. TAYLOR: Next item under releases --
MR. LOVESTRAVD: Pegs]
MR. MILLER: Page 8.
MR. TAYLOR. Page 8. Th— changed some
language rn here and you can t see it because,
like I said, on this part of it they didn't give
an underlying stricken though versaon. But I
objected to things such as the problem —h some
damage they did to some other property of the city
and so forth that that wouldn't be included in
this.
And they changed the language to say, well,
you know, this se telee all the things chat we
could have asked Ior or demand in this particular
Well, we could have added another count as _o
damage to underground utilities or whatever they
of Page 8. However, nothing herein shall re_ease
or be implied to release any claims or causes of
actaon the city may have concerning matters
unrelated to ehe pendinq Causes of aceron.
That's just a clarifying thing. I don't see
them having a problem with that.
MR. MILLER. Okay.
MR. MAIN— But then you have another thing
that p —ided, however, upon favorable ril_
.M. TAYI,OR. Well, tt says in there provided,
however, that nothing herein shall release or be
implied to release any claims FPC has to recove_
y amount paid by FPC to ehe City pursuant to the
order.
That standing by itself just looks like they
ol
I
11
can go back and collect it as it ♦s. But I added
in there: Upon a favorable rul Lng by the Supreme
Court to FPC in the Winter Park and/or Bel -Aire
I—. Again, to make sure --
MR. BUNDY: Yeah. Yeah. I see what you
mean. Without that clause, then this settlement
then they could come back later and try eo
recover the money from us.
MR. TAYLOR: Right. Based --
MR. RUNDY: Regardless.
MR. T—OR: -- upon that one para9raph.
MR. ANBERSON: Yes,
MR. TAYLOR: On Page 9, my understanding was
that we'd agreed that as far as anything to do
with arbitration or whatever the parties are going
to pay their — fees. But I also understand and
don't see it in here that the prevailing party in
any Sitiga[ion to enforce the terms or—,dition
of this settlement agreement or to enforce the
terms or condi.taons of the franchise agreement
shall be entitled to reasonable attorney', fees
and costs. So I intend to revrs.it that with them
because that was my understanding of how we left
tt that day.
MR. LOVESTRRMD- In other words, what you're
ol
0
saying is es ther no return of fees in the
past, but if you don't live up to this and we have
to sue you for it, you got to pay attorneys fees.
MR. TAYLOR: That's right.
MR. MILLER: Exactly. I don't see that
happening, but 1t s a good thing to have in ehere.
MR. T-OR: Another thing, on page 8, by the
way, backing up actually, i m looking - i m
trying to look at my agreement - my letter of
November lath on this. Just to let you know that
thing in there about so long as either party is
not in breach of any material provision, and I
wanted to take that out saying even if you re in
breach of a material provision of the franchise,
you could still co into the court and seek to
enforce the franchise agreement and that would be
a defense to that. They did not agree to that.
whole paragraph out. What do we care. The
MR, TAYLOR No. They didn't.
MR. LOVESTRANO: Which tells about the
MR. TAYLOR. They just want to say - they
want >t left in there that you're in material
breach of the agreement, you can t go in and
enforce the terms ,l the franchise.
And I didn't particularly care Eor that. But
that was one of things that --
MR. BANDY: What is the --
MR. TAYLOR: -- they wouldn't agree to.
MR. BANDY: -- settlement -- this settlement
closes everything up to the franchise agreement.
MR. MAINGOT: The franchise.
MR. —DY: The franchise agreement
includes --
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. B Y: - everything from that point
forward.
MR. TAYLOR, Right.
MR. BANDY: So how can this -- something
that's done today --
MR. MILLER: well, 1 don't. know how you could
possibly be in material breach either.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Well, it doesn't - rt s not
Coo harmful to have it in there because most of
what's done is them paying us.
MR. MILLER. That's it. We don't [hem owe
them a thing.
01
iR
MR. LOVESTRAN➢: It s not a great paragraph.
MR. MILLER: What do we owe Chem? MOthing.
How can we be in material breach?
MR. TAYLOR: well --
MR. AMDERSON: On the settlement.
MR. MILLER: Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, it says in here: So long
as the City is not in breach of any material
provision of the franchise agreement.
MR. MILLER: Like what?
MR. LOVESTRAMD: Well, that's a separate
agreement with itI own enforceability clause;
isn eMR, TAYLOR; Weli, I think Chat you've made a
good point. why does that need to be in here at
a11, when ie s -- when the settlement agreement is
done and over with and Chen we re moving on to the
franchise agreement.
MR. ANEERSON: And that's the point you were
crying to make.
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. ANDERSON: Was there shouldn't be any
words about whether a parry's in breach of the
franchise agreement in the settlement agreemene.
MR. HUM➢Y: settlement agreement.
MR. MAINOOT: So that should be completely
out of there Chen.
MR. MILLER. And they said they wouldn't take
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. MILLER: Why? Did you ask them why?
MR. TAYLOR: Well, they feel that this would
-- this would survive -- I mean, once you sign it,
then they could go back later on and if you tried
to enforce some[ F.ing concerning the franchise.
And they I.
you can t enforce it because you're
in material breach yourself.
And to me bcth sides could he in a material
breach and you could still go into court. And
when it all shakes out, you may owe them, they may
owe you even though there's a materfal breach.
So I wasn t real happy about that.
MR. LOVESTRAND: What you're saying is as a
matter of common law -- as a matter of law, this
as a non enforceable paragraph in a sense because
you still can sue under [he franchise?
MR. TAYLOR: —h. Sut they could come to as
a defense saying, no, I move to dismiss—
ismiss or as an
affirmative offense stating that they're in
material breach of the franchise agreement, so
r
therefore they cant sue us fox breaching it.
MR. MILLER: Well, how can we possibly -- how
could we, the City, possibly be in mate-ial breach
of the franchise agreement?
MR. BLNDY: I Chink what he's saying --
MR. MILLER. Now, wait a minute. Eow could
that possibly happen?
MR. —DY: flue --
MR, ANDEREON. There's a lot o_ --
MR. LOVESTRAND. We d—t allow them ir. the
right-of-way.
MR. —RION: T'h-- a lot of terms in ehR
franchise agreement that we have to live up to.
MR. MILLER. Yeah. But we have to allow them
in the right-o£-way.
MR. LOVESTRAND. But then if we didn't, we'd
RE in mare rial breach.
MR. TAYLOR. In other words, say, there's a
se main right-of-way and they suddenly runt t o
down high-tension, high -power lines done a certarn
right-of-way and you've got people coming to city
hall screaming: We donut want those coming behind
our house.
And so you tell them: Look, you've got your
ol
I- in the pity, but you're not bringing them
dawn this right-of-way. And they go: Look, aI
the agreement. Vie have the right to go down any
And you go: No. You re not coming down
here.
All right. They c y, all right, y re rn
material breach now.
MR. AMDERSOM: or a trry ial one would be we
have to notify them 30 days before whatever,
whatever and bang --
MR. TAYLOR: You just hit on mother point
that may be trivial to you --
MR. AMDERSON: Yes. It ts.
MR. TAYLOR: - but what's trivial to you,
might not be trivial to me.
MR. ANDERSON: That's correct.
MR. TAYLOR. And the words material and
trivial are the things it,, give people like me
job security.
MR. ANDERSON. That's right. Hut what I m --
I mean, that's one if those things that can
trigger, boom, you are now rn breach of this
franchise agreement and now you can t enforce your
rights under it. That'e why that paragraph is
bad.
MR. TAYLOR. Which by the way, that provision
cuts both ways.
MR. MAINGOT: So, therefore, is it --
MR. L—STRAND: It s undesirable, but —A
no[ worth spoiling the deal over.
MR. MAIN— Well --
MR. ANDERSON: But, Richard --
MR. TAYLOR; We11, I Chink that's one of
those things that we may want to <r rc_e that's
significant that when you get to the end and look
at the overall thing, we decide, nay, —11 just
overlook Chat or go back to them and try and
massage a couple of things out more.
MR. MILLER: You can use it as a bargaining
point. But you know what, really, I m sitting
here trying to Chink of how we could possibly be
why we would allow ourselves to ne to
mace rial breach.
MR. AMDERSOM: Richard lust sa.i.d --
MR. MAINGOT: They j st gave two examples of
it
MR. MILLER: He didn't give me examples. He
gave maybe the sky might fall. That doesn't mean
anything.
MR. MAINGOT: No. No. No.
MR. MILLER: okay.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Are you Calking about the
recent letter we , received?
MR. MILLER: You see the thing is if you
Chink about it, how many rights -of -way could they
possibly put high-tension wires down? There
aren e any.
MR. MAINGOT. Today there aren t.
MR. MILLER. In this city, we ve got four
square miles of property. That's it. There iI
MR. TAYLOR: Well, you just wanted an
example.
MR. MILLER: You know that•, what Z'm saying.
MR. TAYLOR: That's just some example.
MR. MILER: I m trying to think of exempl.
that would cause something like Chic. It just
can C happen.
MR. ANDEREON: They could use the eight feet
in the back of everybody's backyard and say, we re
running one right through here. We don't need a
4o-foot face on this thing.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Z think they should use
Range I,— Road.
J-
44
MR. MILLER: But I Chink they're governed by
laws that they cant do chat.
MR. MAINGOT. Well, I think it's best eo be
on the safe side.
MR. ANDERSON: But Richard's point i., I
Chink, we11 made _hat we would say: No. No. You
—'I do ehae.
And they would say: Oh, yes. We cart. And
if we did anything to stop them, they could say:
You are in material breach and per this seeelement
agreement, you can t enforce whatever, whatever.
MR. LOVES—D: But we'll have the money in
our hands by then.
MR. MAINGOT: I know. But still we have --
MR. ANDERSON: And here's --
MR. BMDY: This applies to the franchise
agreement.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right.
MR. ANDERSON: But here's the second o t
that I think is significant. If the City believes
that they're in material breach for whatever
I—— what is our course of notion. tue really
can C have any because their attitude to this past
t _me has been, you can't stop us from continuing
to service to a city and make mo y We re not
0-
oaying you et cetera, et cetera, we ve gone
through this whole thing.
So, I mean, it seem.. to me chat It that
Whereao, If [ha[ language was -
MR. LOVESTR-D. This agreement should
ottually d1e, Rrchard. Maybe you can oat words in
to the effect Chat after both aides ag_ee that the
seit I-- is done that this agreement becomes
null and void. Let thia agreement die.
franchise a9--tt --
MR. LOVESTRAtdD: We want this agreemene eo
die, when we Ve got our money.
MR. BUNDY: -- from chit. I mean, this
should not --
MR. —LOR. Well, technically it would die
of cer the Supreme COurt rules because --
MR. LOVESTR-M; .eah.
MR. T I,— -- there's a provision in here,
I think, hot rn the franchise agreement Chat the
actual -- they want [o leave the - well, it would
say in ehe beginning of here. That they want to
Leave the act.von pending just until the Supreme
Lonrt rules and the money is paid or n e paid ju t
_n case you have to go back --
MR. LOVESTRAND. All right. Maybe you can
add a paraoraph at Che end, that axcer Che Supreme
Court rules this ag reemenC will sunset.
MR. MAINGOT: Because this here specifically
says enforceabiliey of franchise as opposed to
MR. LOVESTI—D: Yeah. If it sunsets.
MR. MAINOOT: well --
MR. AMDERSOM. And the point is that Cnrs
agreement concludes the past. And when the
franchise cakes effect, tha— a new chapter.
MR. LOVESTRAND: But this -- there's noching
more Co It once that supreme Court makes their
decision, this should sunrise.
MR. —Y. Once - because there will be an
overlapping period when this agreement is in
effect until the Supreme Court rules.
MR. TAYLOR; Welt, there's a sentence --
MR. But.*DY. And Che Franchise agreement --
MR. 'I'AYWR: -- in here Co that. In face, _t
says on Page 6 the last paragraph that's typed:
The lawsuit shall be abated, which means just put
10,
on hold, as to FE s potential claim to recover
order on Longwood's motion to require payment of
franchise fees.
So that portion of the suit is just going to
be abated until the Supreme court rules.
MR. LOVESTRAIIO: And can you add a sentence
in there then? That sounds like a logical place
there. And this agreement shall sunset or
whatever.
MR. MILLER. We11, see, believe me, I don't
believe that this paragraph ought to be in here.
MR. MAINGOT: I agree with that.
MR. MILLER. I m just —king for reasons why
they would want it in here. That's the Ching.
MR. MAINGOT. That paragraph should be out of
there.
MR. MILLER. xow would We possibly be in
materiel breach of the franchise agreement? I
can t see any reasonable way it would happen. Why
would they wane it 1n here? What's the deal?
MR. TAYLOR: Well, there's one of those
things that you're talking a lot about that I can
go back -- pa rc of the negotiating and there s
things in here chat maybe we'll -- agree on
with them. But I cart say this, we vz made light
y re of - -
MR. MILLER. Oh, yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: But it doesn't mean that one or
two negotiating sessions you resolve things. If
you hammer them -- I mean, e had a had a whole
laundry basket full of them to begin with. And I
resolved a gazillion of them the last tame - spoke
with them. But that d... — mean we re so-ve all
of them. You got to finally fine tune things till
you go, all tight, now we — got it anailed
down.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR. And we re talking about --
MR. MILLER. And we re all in pretty much
agreement this paragraph should go then; right?
MR. —GOT: That's tight.
MR. ANDERSON: Let John soeak here.
MR. DRAGO: One Ching you need co keep in
mind is that when these documents get adopted by
you guys, the ordinance gets adopted after two
public readings, then it becomes effective
immediately. And all the provisions start to Cake
place.
In the mean[ ame this settlement agreement is
t
r
01
r
still ciea to the franchise agreement until ene
Supreme court decides when [hey wan[ co hear the
MR. 1— STRAND: Right.
MR. —GO: Whenever chat is, it runs
parallel co one another. And if something_ happens
along the line "" you say, you know.
You guys
didn't pay us something or you didn't do something
— this franchise agreement, then [hey got a hook
to go back and say, well, wait a minute, yo re rn
maceri al breach, s0 you can c go to -- so there s
a etme gap there.
If everything coincided where this franchise
agreement would be adopted, we get — money and
MR. auNOx. There is an overlap
there that you need co consider. And chat just --
MR. A IERSON: And I chink it will be a
significant overlap because ehey are expecting us
to cake a --
MR. LO—TRAND: It will be a year from now.
MR.—EREON. Well, yeah. They're expecting
us co Cake up a reading on the franchise as soon
as possible.
MR. DRAGO: Right,
MR. ANDEESON And enacc chae franchise and
gee it going, meanwhile we have to wait until the
Supreme cossrt decides Chat they want to heal it.
MR. MAINGOT. And we -
MR. ANDERSON: And if there's any type of a
di.spuce whether we chink it's CIL-1 or —, they
would say, no, Chats material breach and you
MR. MILLER. I cant see one reason why chat
should be �n there.
MR. MAINGOT. That should be out.
MR. ANDRES— And the only purpose it serves
I. chit Cwo secs of attorneys can argue and bicker
over it and drive It costs.
MR. MILLER: But everything is in their
favor. Okay. The material breach -- even iE Chey
-- even if Chey - if they were in mace rial
breach, what in this document --
MR. —Et— Ne have no hold over ehem.
MR. MILLER: -- says that --
MR. BANDY. But I does not say --
MR. LOVESTRAND. No. Ic does work --
MR. BANDY. It does not. NO.
MR. MILLER: If they're in material breach --
MR. LOVEETEAND: If they don't pay us, then
t hey— in material breach.
MR. WINDY. It does not work two ways. It
says: As long as the City is not in breach of any
maCert al provt6tOn.
MR. MAIN— Thl— right.
MR. EUNDY: It does not say Florida Power.
MR. MAINGOT. FPC. That's Tight. It � a
one-way ettuatton.
MR.—EREON. And that's what clues you off
of why Chat shouldn't be in there.
MR. LOVESTEAND: Well, let's make it [wo
ways.
MR. —DY: LIt s make it no way.
MR. MAINGOT. I think it should be out of
there.
MR. MILLER. No. No. We should make it no
way.
MR. MAINGOT. out of there.
MR. MILLER. This needs to go. This really
does. 'This whole paragraph needs to get out of
there.
MR. BANDY. Scratch the paragraph.
MR. MILLER: It s a one-way paragraph.
f'
That's it.
MR.-EEREON: We have consensus to Cake that
MR. ANUERSON. It sounds like we do.
MR. —0: Well, it also has an, o-
provision in here. It's not just a franchise
agreement rt s, or the seeelemene agreement.
MR. BNNUY. Yeah, Boeh.
MR. MA INGOT: Sa, 3, out.
MR. ANUEREON: Oh, you know what, you guys
didn't do "X" in the franchise, the'refo're, all
this money --
MR. MILLER: You got eo pay it back.
MR. ANOERSON: -- they thought they were
paying to you --
MR. TAYLOR: And don't forget this is the
same company that argued chat we had no option to
purchase in the beginning which was just a far-
fetched argument.
It people are going to do that. I'm not
pointing my finger just at Florida Power --
MR. EUNUY: Of course, you know --
MR. TAYLOR: -- any company — take any kind
If unreasonable position in litigation. You —
got to g�ara againac cnae.
And remember not to be hasty in agreeing to
something with them. Make sure it's flne tuned
very well because this agreement. and the franchise
agreement is going to involve at the minimum over
the franchise period a payment of 30 million
dollars and probably closer to 50 million dollars.
We re not Calking about chicken feed.
MR. MA INGOT. Well, a bit more than that. I
estimate 15 -- their gross caking as of now based
on the average, you're looking at 15 million
dollars per year.
MR. MILLER: I guarantee you Chat --
billing.
MR. BLNDY: You're talking about 3D
million --
MR. TAYLOR. so you're getting six percent of
that of the franchise.
MR. LOVESTEAND: Approximately 20 times what
we gee and that's gross, but then they got to
subtract their expenses.
city.
MR. MILLER: They would have never put chi,
to there if they didn't hive something in mind.
MR. LOVESTRRND: John's got something.
MR. DRAG-: Under the curren1 franchise
ag reemenC, you re right, Paul. Under Chi, new
franchise agreement, ehey do no[ back out any
e axes chat are paid,
So you actually get [he six percent If their
total gross revenve and nothing gets subtracted.
MR. LOVESTRAND. It s a little more.
MR. DRAEO. Right.
MR. EUNDY: Yeah.
MR. DRATO: And they include the industrial
l ighe.
MR. AN➢ERSON: 01ay. Next issue.
MR. MAINGOT. Is there any rtroxe on this --
MR. LOVESTRAND. Up to 9, right?
MR. TAYLOR: 'ae11, we already Calked anoUt
attor—y's fees,
MR. LOVEETRAND. we did.
MR. TAYLOR: At the -- and there's an .issue
chat we ve gone back and forth about hill they
j us[ want us to tota y eappeal Ordinance 01
1559, which is the ordinance we put into effect
r•
MR. ROVIR3TRAND: The right-of-way .,di—?
— C—: The h.-- ordinance.
MR. TAYLOR: The holdover.
MR. TAYLOR; I told I— that there .,Id b,
although 1 1- of things in there pertained t.
them IlItIlly and —9--Ily - the settlement
agreement and the franchise .9--, And I
,---ly would agree that the City would not h...
any of chose p---, apply or would re pp.1
P1.1-il— of that lldi—,— that apply m Chem.
And they -- they never I don't think took I
hard fast -- They 3-1 said they'd rather
have 11
A.d I said: well, that's fine. But I wane
eo b, able CO p— -- if we re going - —p.1
an —d-- that d,,I. —h the 11— subject
matter as utilities A.11— —y—
h—, ABC Electric —, in h— with deregulation
and —t to — - h— and th—Bls things j,
that —d-- that y.. may .., — gwe ve
lad
91t those in there. And - I Chink I—
r
orainance --
ME. 9UNOY. well --
MR. LOVESTRAND: Let's agree to appeal it and
make another one.
MR. TAYLOR. Sut I want it -- but the thing
is if you don't clarify it like I have here,
they'll go, you have repealed it and Chen reacted
it
MR. MILLER: And ye—e in materiel breach.
MR. TAYLOR: Now, you're in material breach
If our settlement agreement or franchise
agreement.
MR. MILLER. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: My sentence says: The repealing
of ordinance --
MR, MILLER: NOw, there ie an example that I
can live with.
MR. TAYLOR: The repealing of Ordinance 01-
155I shall not prevent the 11ty Che reaf ter
adnpeing an ordinance covering the same subject
matter, so long as said ordinance is not in
conflict wren this settlement agreement or the
L ranchise agreement --
MR. LOVESTRAn*0. Good.
ME. TAYLOR: -- and said ordinance shall not
r
thq, or d the I—. and conditions If the
tittl—e- —i and --h— ordinance.
MR. BMDY: Would it b. --
MR. TAY— A, 1-9 as It doesn't affect
them, —t it. they 1111?
MR. BLMDY: wouldn't it be tltl to —Y in
there in the new -- i,i the new f'—I"— ordinance
chat repeale any items to th- ordinance that are
to conflict with --he new one.
MR. MILLER! Huh-h.
MR. BLMDY: And the, you don't have to "t-1
the —le Iti.,
MR. DEAGO: The P—pell If . —de,e,
.1di-1, 116 11 develop I general framework far
anybody that t— .into the City that It— to
provide electric —i—, h-- the 9-111
A franchise agreement 9— more 1PIelfas
-
to he company you .— to d, business with. And
you have the right t, either at —gth— the terms
in the franchise ,— 11 weaken the. . 1-9
as y., stay within the general framework If the
,Ild—, ordinance.
MR. —R: But the .1di—I, that we
—pled — further .ld—, --
ol
MR. ORAGO: Correct.
MR. TAYLOR: That specifically zeroed in on
Florida Power.
MR. MRAGO: Vo question. gut your point is
well taken, because iE you yet into deregulation:
then you have too many of these guys floating in
and out of here, then the same holdover provision
has to apply.
MR. TAYLOR: I mean, as long as it dcesn't
affect them, what do they care.
MR. MAINGOT: It protects I.
MR. LOVESTRAMR: I like the words.
MR. MAINGOT. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: Now --
MR, —RSON: Richard, the one -- the last
sentence you just said. As long as It doesn•t
affect them.
Any ordinance that we do pass, should affect
everybody. It shouldn't be targeted specifically
at them in a negative fashion. That•s what they
would get apse[ about.
Eot the fact that it covers everybody --
MR. LOVESTRA:VD: What he says in there,
though, he ju [ —i—d now slightly dill -Brent.
xe says in there it —It change the terms, as
0-
d
long as it doesn't change the terms of the
franchise agreement.
MR. ANDERSON: Correct.
MR. —STRAND: Noe affect Chem.
MR. ANDERSON: okay.
MR. MAIN — Does nos conflict or whatever.
MR. —DY: Yeah. Not en conflict.
MR. MAINGOT: Right.
MR. LOVESTRAND: H just summarized it now ae
long as it do—c a£fece them. But the wording
says as long as >t doesn't conflict with their
orainance --
MR. BUNDY. Not in conflict with --
MR. LOVESTRAND. ith the franchise
agreement.
MR. MAINGOT: Right.
MR, T—OR: And you couldn't really pass an
ordinance and change a contract by n vision of an
ordinance anyway. A Covrt would never enforce
[.hat.
MR. ANDERSON. Okay. But -- and here's why I
think that's c cane. That's --hit, that I
think we all agree with that you can t buy an
ordinance after the franchise, alter the franchise
without the other parties consent.
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. AN➢ERSON. But that s exactly what
Florida tower argued against us 1n conelnuing to
collect the franchise fees. You cant make us
keey colle ce ing eh— franchise fees because we
didn't agree to 1t. I don't think that we altered
the franchise one bit.
But they claimed that we did and said that we
-- that's why they can t -- it, unenforceable.
You can t force ue to collect these fees.
MR. TAYLOR. Well, no, they said --
MR. LOVESTRAN➢: L d—I see 11 --
MR. TAYLOR. -- that they couldn't collect
the fees because there was no agreement in -
MR. LOVESTR— There was no agreemene.
MR. TAYLOR: There was no agreement at all in
which to collect them on.
MR. AN➢PRSON: But they also said that they
did no[ recognize that ordinance and the validity
of that ordinance and it was one-sided. And they
we ren e party to it, and so they were" t going co
operate under it.
MR. TAYLOR: Oh, the latest ordinance, the
o"e we passed in oI.
0`
r
MR. TAYLOR! Right.
MR. ANDERS— And that's where thty argued,
hey, you did this by an ordinance afterwards and
You— crying to enforce terms of the franchise --
MR. TAYLOR: They've never won on thac
argument, though.
MR. ANDERSON No. They haven't. But if we
put specific --
MR. MILLER: If we repeal it --
MR. ANDERSON: -- language that says: Hey,
we'll never do anything that Couches you. They
could argue then based off of cnat language,
you're trying to control us.
MR. DRAGO: No. Because the Pifth District
Court basically has said if you've been in that
right-of-way with a previous franchise agreement,
you're entitled to pay the city money. So that's
already established.
MR. LOVESTRAND: You re still a tenant --
MR. EUNDY: row about can we not do this --
MR. ANDERSON: Which is what I argued all
along and they told me I wa.. out of it.
MR. EDNDY: -- can we not at ehe same time
e hat we repeal 1559, put in place a new ordinance
that removes specific references to Chem, but pass
CA
r
P.
one s. multaneousl.y it repeal it.
MR. TAYLOR: WR11, that's what my language
down Cher. intends to It.
MR. LOVESTRAND. Yeah.
MR. AN➢EMR— Okay,
MR. TAYLOR: My intent... .s [o repeal and
[hen at the same time plug another ... right on in
there that has Co be cleaned up and amended and
massaged, so .[ doesn1t conflict with them, but
p ._etas the —y'e interest for deregulation in
[he future and so forth.
11, Illy: -eah. But I don't want elorida
Power, you know -- if you're saying that in this
agreement, Chen you re giving [hem the right to
have a say so .n our franchise - in our
ordinance. You know, [hey can come in and they
have Co approve that ordinance because they can --
[hey would have - well, ..it a minute. They
would have the right to 9. [o court a9ainet our
ordinanto say that is s 1n conf licC with this. ce
MR. LOVEEIl Dz Th,— wasting their bucks,
huh?
MR. DRAGO. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: I donut see Chat happening
r
IF
unless you pass something and then 1111 them up
and said: By the way, this ordinance says you
have to jump through this other hoop.
MR. MILLER: Yes.
MR. TAYLOR. Then they would raise Cain.
MR. —PEON: Okay. Next item.
MR. LOVESTRAND: That was Adam and Eve that
raised Cain.
MR. MILLER. We all agree on this.
MR. MAINGOT: Yes. I mean, as far as I m
concerned.
MR. MILLER. Are we agreed on thin?
MR. DRAGO: With all the changes.
MR. TAYLOR. Will, there's only one --
MR. LOVESTRAND: Surat one big one.
MR. TAYLOR: -- big one.
MR. MAINGOT. And one .—
MR. TAYLOR. Well, that's the big ore.
MR. MAINGOT. Yeah. Number 3.
MR. ANDERSON. I think everything else is
good in here.
MR. —OR: The next thing, I think, the
easiest thing to look to in the one tbat says at
the Cop in my writing, proposed ordinance with
FP— changes, additions underlined and deleeions
U-a
s crock through.
MR. ANDEREON: Real yuick, Richard. Items 4
through 19 on your letter you say are all fine.
Oh, no. W _e moving on to the franchise --
Item 4 moves into the franchise.
MR. LOVESTRAND: That's noc the one.
MR. ANDERSON: And we re using the one that
says: Proposed --
MR, MILLER: Okay. Ie s got numbers on it.
A11 riyht.
MR. MAINOOT: Yes.
MR, LOVESTEAND: Where's the numbers?
MR. MILLER: The numbers a-e on some of ch—
Pages 1 and 2 need to be numbered.
MR. AND£RSON: Are — reading from the one
chat says: Proposed Ordinance with FPC E changes,
additions, underlines and del 11— struck
through?
MR. TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. That's the one.
Okay. Beginning with Number 4, grant of
authority.
MR. TAYLOR: You see chey added in there
about --
MR. MAIMMOT: I have something else before
r
that.
MR. TAYLOR. Okay.
MR. MAINGOT: And bearing in mind that [his,
of course, vs a public document Gr will become a
public document, already is. For the ed=_Eication
of the lay person, i mean, I— asked this before
above the granting of a non-vncl usive franchise
agreement in [he even[ of deregulation; right.
MR. TAYLOR: Um -hum.
MR. MAINGOT: The svtuatvon vs open. would
Sohn Public—C—Cand that?
MR. TAYLOR: This non-vnclvsive?
MR. MAINGOT: Yes.
MR. TAYLOR: The title at [he very beginning
it
MR. MAINGOT. Right. Yes.
MR. TAYLOR. -- says an ordinance granting to
Rlorida Power Corporation any non vnclvsive
electric utility=ranchise -- I Chink deregulation
would invalid anything [hie gave Chem an vnclvsive
actually.
MA. I—EETRAND. Probably would invalid all
franchises.
MR. M NGOT. well, 1 just --
MR. BUNDY. -- kind OE basically in off—
of,
deregulating electricity here.
MR. MAINGOT: Well, I just wrote -
MR. RMDY: If they accept this, they're
accepting a non -inclusive franchise.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. ZC's non -inclusive. No
problem there.
MR. TRY'— Yeah. But in order to get the
authority -- you're right. EXcepC [he government,
other Chan the City of Longwood's government, >s
going to have to come along and say: Florida
Power you sha11 let Taylor Electric use your lines
eo deliver power to Butch Bundy.
MR, LOVESTRAND: The Public Eervice
MR, BIINOY. Mo, Mo. No.
MR. LOVESTRAND: -- has said they have a
monopoly.
MR. ANDF.RSON: Wait. Stop. Because .tn Che
early 19oo'1 Che State said we re going to carve
up the It— I— dedicated service areas and
someone will be _ en a mo ooly to service that
area. And so despite the fact that this says non -
inclusive, nobody else can come in there until
such time as --
MR. LOVESTRANO: Right.
r
e
MR. AN➢ERSON: -- the State changes that law.
MR. ➢RA— Or if they run it underground.
MR. MAINGOT: This is why I have something
here which I'd like to read out.
MR. ANDERSON: — the State law --
MR, MAINGOT: I'd like to read something and
whether it holds ware_ or not. I said here:
Granting a non->nslusive franchise does not
prevent us - now, this es layman's language --
from seeking out another provider in the even, of
de regulaCion.
However, for purposes o£ clarification there
should be a paragraph that says: In the event of
deregulation, the 9ua rancor has the right to enter
into negotiations with any other provider and the
collection and tF,k payment of franchise fees shall
remain in of to ct so long as the guarantor has noe
terminated ehis agreemenC.
MR. ANDERSON: That was whole --
MR. TAY— That's covered in the franchise
agreement.
MR. LOVESTRANO: I think what we re doing is
putting oursalf en Che plane of the state again,
like on those other things we gave them tG the
Supreme Court. Here, we have to give to the
r
enblic Ier— ob—leion.
MR. —DY: What —Id doing and I'll say
this a9ain, .ts we have deregulated them here.
That does not mean at s deregulated, but in the
I-- that this is, we don't have to go back in
and redo the franchise agreement.
MR. —DY. Because it already w111 be a non -
inclusive.
MR. MILLER. The Stite's not going Co
deregulate without passing a law allowing
everything to happen. They re not going to do it.
MR.—STRAMD: and when they do it, it
supersedes.
MR. BUMDY: Well, Chat's what I'm saying, if
they do five years, ten years, six months from
no if they do deregulate st aC ewide, this
ordinance if, it were not a non inclusive, would
become null and void.
MR. xMDeason. Okay.
MR. —DY: And the franchise agreement would
be null and void by leaving it -- by doing it as a
non-rnclusive then we don't have to worry about
MR. —LOR. And John --
MR. SANDY: They will will be bound by the
terms of it.
MR. MSLLER: absolueely. ,lust like when they
deregulated Che telephone industry.
MR. MAINGOT. All right.
MR. TAYLOR: There are some provisions well
get into as we go through this agreement ehae
vides that Florida Power shall not be put at a
disadvantage by deregulation. And if we bring in
these other companies that we ve got Co charge
them the same franchise fees we re charging
Florida Power.
MR. MAINGOT: Well, I just thought I'd bring
that in as a matter of edification for Che lay
person who is going to oe reading this.
MR. LOVESTRANO: We already have non
inclusive garbage -- commercial garbage contracts.
MR. MAINooT: All right.
MR. LOVESTRANO: I think people understand
r
MR. TAYLOR: Page 2.
MR. LOVESTERND. No changes.
MR. TAYLOR. Yeah. There1s a change.
MR. LOVESTE-E: Oh, it, underlined.
MR. TAYLOR. I wanted t0 clarify that any
Other EMi-19 future servvice other Chan providing
electricity and related services shall -- they'll
have t0 come back Co us £Or a new agreement, new
fees and everything else.
MR. BUNDY: So if they want Co get in the
Ph— business in the right -Of -ways, they have Co
get our permission.
MR. MILLER: Are these things they already
agreed to that you've got underlined here?
MR. TAYLOR: Yeah. They put Chem in there.
They are the Ones that typed this up and put them
there.
MR. MILLER. This is -- all the underlined
portions are things that you asked for.
MR. TAYIAR: [Nods head affirmatively)
MR. MILLER. Okay.
MR. P—ERSON. And that they --
MR. TAYLOR: For the mosC pare.
MR. I—ERSON. -- put
MR. TAYLOR. Yes.
r
MR. MILLER. Okay.
MR. MAINGOT: Under - if I I
Section 5, Payment to Guarantor --
MR. MA —T. Grantor. That si cent,
what happens if we need additional revenue and we,
therefore, want to direct Chem to increase ou_
:ranch... fees from — t0 seven percent?
MR. ANDERSON: The franchise says sax.
MR. MAINGOT. I know.
MR. ANDERSON: For 1� year..
MR. MAINGOT: That's why I bring the point
up.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, and let me respond to
that. At one of our first meetings, it was back
when they were playing hard nose about they
we ren C going t0 give us [he option. But one of
Cne thing. they said In the very first - a -year -
a -half or two years ago --
MR. TAYLOR: No. I Chink they said they'd g0
up, if you wanted eo charge eight percent, they
didn't have a problem with eight percent.
MR. MILLER. No. Th.y aid th.y ould --
MR. EUNDY: Mo.
01
0
MR. ANDEREON: They'd never go more e.:an six.
MR. LOVESTR—: well, wart a mtnute. Let me
clarity Chat the way I heard ie. No Illy has ever
charged more Chan sax percent is what they It-
- MAixGOT. well, that's funny.
MR. —LOR. But did— they at one time say
Chat if you wanted Co go higher, is didn't bother
them.
MR. MILLER: No. They told us they would
never go over six. I remember them saying chat.
MR. ANDEREON: That is what they said. They
also said if they allowed another six some[ning
higher Chan six --
MR. MILLER: Then they would.
MR. ANDERSON: - Chen they would a13ow us Co
charge that as we11.
MR. TAYLOR: Okay. Maybe chat was It.
MR, MAINGOT. That's under favored na t.ions.
MR. ANDERSON: Hut we will not let you charge
anything over six.
MR. MILLER. That's exactly whae they said.
MR. LOVEHTR ; Right. And let me add to
MR. ANDERSON: we will not lee you.
MR. LOVEETRANL. They also said that if any
r is
,I
city tries to 90 over six percene, there is court
precedent that has said that six percent -- that
r ighe-oE-ways are worth s.ix percent. And to go
h ighe-, y— d have to prove that it was worth
mole. And it would be a long wore battle for any
city that wanted to go over six percent because
there is a precedent for the six pe rcene.
MR. ANOERSON. I ve read that.
MR. LIVESTRA The courts have said that
six percent is justified.
MR. MILLER: I cant rmagine why we would
want to do that either.
MR.—ERSON: Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, quite frankly, I Chink if
you needed more revenue, you're going eo h— to
find another source, whether :t -ar sing ad valorem
taxes or whatever it is.
MR. MAI—T: I'm just looking down the
future.
MR. BUNBY. A d, of course, this also is like
any other contract.
MR. MAINOOT: Leaving opliIER opens right?
MR. BBNBY. IE both Marties agree to it, it
could be modified.
MR. LOVESTRAND: The government is always
74
hiring.
MR. ANEERSON: Gentlemen, one ae a tame.
MR. MAINGOT. Well --
MR. MILLER. I am t Chat hungry.
MR. MAINGOT. -- don'[ we have our operating
costs in this City increasing every year, Mr.
Aaminiseraeor?
MR. ERAGO: ..ire.
MR. ANOERSON: Yeah.
MR.—ESTRAn'n. It shouldn't increase more
than the inflation and population. And if it
does, we got too I.th government. We ought to
fire all the Commissioners and the Adminis[rat ors
and get people --
MR. MAINGOT: Right now we re being protected
by the fact that properly values are going up and,
therefore, even [hough we down by the si - cent,
right, the overall additional generated funds,
right, more than cover that. 3u[ property values
are goiug to Sevel of E.
And when that happens and our increased
operating costs keep going up, what are we doing?
MR. —DY: Of course, chat sax percent --
MR. MILLSR: well, John --
MR. R—Y: Wait a minute, though, that sax
15
percent is going to -- the percentage may stay the
same, but the gross dollars is going to is noe
going eo go It —
MR . LOVESTRANE; Goes -
MR. BUNOY; It's going to go up every time
they get a race increase --
MR. M NGOT. p din9 utilization.
MR. BANDY: -- If they --
MR. MILLER: I Chink the position and you may
disagree with this, but Che reason operating -.-
It up every year is we let the operating costs go
up every year. _ remember when our budget was
nine million. Okay. And it wasp t that long ago.
we ve allowed it to go up because revenues went
up.
MR. MAINGOT: well, th—I a sma 11 --
MR. MILLER. There's a lot of thin95 in that
budget we could do viih.— A lot. I got Co tell
Y.., It is pretty porky and we as a Commission
allow Chat stuff Co happen.
MR. AMDERSON. I would eount er that with, we
didn't have control over Che 40 percent insurance
premium increases.
MR. MAINGOT. That'e Tighe.
MR. MILLER: Ne11, no, you're right.
]6
MR. ANDEREON: The liability insurance.
MR. MILLER: There are cent— things that do
MR. I'AYLOR: Gasoline costs.
MR. MAINGOT: Right. Overall matn[enance
MR. MILLER: Okay. HUC you have t0 realize,
too, that Che rea_on that is is because it, set
up in such a manner as we allow all chose extra
claims t0 occur, xhich drive the races up.
If we adl us[ea --
MR. ANDEREON. The liability insurance --
MR. MILLER: - with a co -payment, Chose
things will go down. Okay. There are ways t0
regulate Chae.
MR. ANDERSON: The liability insurance we
don C have cone rol over that.
MR. MILLER. Oh, you're right.
MR. ANDERSON. Ana that was huge.
MR. LO—TRAN➢: And there's an ec h.— _aw,
though, basically in Texas and ie says: Real
estate keeps pace with i nEiation.
MR. TAYI R. All right.
MR. ANDERSON: well, let s move to the next
71
MR. MAEOR— I just brought it up because --
MR, TAYLOR: The other thing is we need co
abide by even slate st at— and stay on chic
settlement agreement.
MR. TAYLOR: We can t get into other
philosophical things about budgets and --
MR. MAINGOT: Right. Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: -- buying clothes stores.
MR. ANOERSON: Okay. Lets go.
MR. MAINGOT. And so, therefore, my comment
>s a comment and that's it. All right.
MR. AMOERSON: Next item, please.
MR. MILLER. Page 3.
MR, LOVESTRAND: 3 with all the changes.
MR. MILDER. This scribble that you've got at
the top It here, fs this something that you
C hough, about after this came back or did you
sent this to them eo begin with?
MR. TAYLOR: No. They've not seen any of my
handwritten notes on any of these things.
MR. MILLER. Okay. Then this is stuff that
you never suggested to them.
MR. B-DY. No. This was in the original --
MR. MAINGOT: Right. The original
r
commuMR. TAYLOR: Yeah. This pare as 10 the
language, I put in here that their favored --cons
only talks about a franchise tee eno I added in
here and this is something we did not discuss at
the last meeting. Or provides for a shorter
franchise period and/or provides for reliability
standards.
NOw, I don't think they're 9oin9 t0 have a
problem with that in that end because I'm almos,
positive they will never agree with any city in
this state to a s_cOrter franchise period or to
reliability standards.
1' just don•[ — it happening. BUC if they
do, we wane co be able to have the same th-9
they've got.
MR. MILLER: Right.
MR. ANDERSON: Correct.
MR. MILLER: Absolutely.
MR. ANDERSON: And that was one of the
-
MR. A—: I thought that was rn the
original --
MR. MAIN— That's right. It cs.
MR. EIINDY. - franchise agreement presented
MR. MAINGOT: It was and they cook it .—
MR. eIRS➢Y: They cook it the lase time.
MR. MAINGUT: Correct.
MR. ANDERSON: So anyway. --
MR. MAINGOT: IC was.
MR. ANDERSON: -- you're going for what
they've communicated with us.
MR. MAINGOT: Right.
MR. TAYLOR: And then just some clean-up
1 an-guage down -- five lines down or something.
And it says: Also if a court of law in Florida
within the jvrisd ict ion of the grantor issues a
final non -appealable order regardi nq a mutually
19reed to expired or unexpired franchise.
That's just some language to clarify. I
don't think we need to get into di. s cussing why.
It s just Co make this agreement make sense and
not. be ambiguous.
Dawn at the bottom of the paragraph --
MR. MAINGOT: A reasonable period.
MR. TAYLOR: -- grantor shall notify grantee
whether 9"nt or will exero se its amendment rights
as Co franchise fee within a reasonable p iod Of
And I even hag su99ested a one-year period
0,
r
because I did —Sian[ [hem to come back and say a
reasonable period of time is 30 days and we'd
exercised our right 31 days later. That we'd have
at leas1 a year co come back under favored nations
and say: Oh, by the way, we want our -- that
gives us quite a bit of time to stay on cop of
things to know that we need to notify them that we
want she same ee rms and conditions that someone
else is receiving.
MR. MAINGOT: Right,
MR. MILLER. We11, here's the thing.
MR. MAINGOT. Let him continue on, though.
MR. MILLER: They've already agreed to this;
right?
MR. TAYLOR: Huh?
MR. MILLER: They've already agreed to that.
MR. TAYIOR: Yeah. Hue I m explaining to you
what•s in here -
MR. MAINGOT: Yeah.
ME. TA I— -- so you would know and you can
ayree to it.
MR. MAINGGT. Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: It's a two way street. I —
because I ag e to it, I don't have the ight -- I
can make recommendations and so forth. You re the
one chat makes the final decisions.
MR. MILLER. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: I think I need to go over these
chan9es so you k..ow about them.
MR. MAINGOT: Right.
MR. EMMERSGN: And thac's an lmporeant change
because if some other cicy got something, we
wouldn't necessarily know in 30 days.
MR. MILLER: You're absolutely —
_-Okay.
MR. M NGOT. Okay.
MR. MILLER: The point I m making is we re
using up a lot of Came going over stuff Ghat
they've already agreed to that he felt should be
[n the cont rac[.
MR. BUMRY: No. These are things that
they --
MR. MILLER. No. - agreed to it all. He
said they agreed to this already.
MR. BLEDY. It doesn't make any difference,
he doesn't have the authority to agree to It.
MR. MILLER: Well, no.
MR. ANOERSON. Guys, let's just --
MR. BUNDY. I mean, he's got -- he has [o
present these to us. These are charges chat were
made Erom the last time.
MR. MILLER: I understand.
MR. LOVESTRANE: There's no football game
tonight, Steve.
MR. TAYLOR: All right. And plus, Steve --
MR. MILLER: All right.
MR. TAYLOR: -- it wouldn't be Che Ei rst time
you didn't agree with something I thought was
good.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MR. MAINGOT: T have a comment on that.
MA. MILLER: I have full confidence in you to
put that in there. That's all I m saying.
MR. ANOE I— Joh,
MR. MAINGOT. I have a comment on that [here.
MR. MILLER: So, I guess, the others didn't.
MR. MAINGOT if Florida Power fails to
notify the city in a timely manner, then why
should the payment be non -retroactive.
MR. TAYLOR: Because it gets .into the same
problems they're going t0 have CO go back and
collect franchise fees Of that eR 0-and-some-
thousand dollars. It becomes a nightmare to Chem
GO backcharge the customer.
MR. MAINGOT Well, I know but you're --
— 'T—OR. I can understand why they
wouldn't want tU dU that.
MR. ATIOERSON: Okay. Bu[ this -- you got tU
read haw it s eying in. And it s saying, if that
_ee ever changed or whae ever --
MR. MAINCOT: Right. CorrecC.
MR. MAINGOT: -- the City has tU noti_y Chem
and say: YOu re going to need to start collecting
this Yee. No[ you were supposed to have been
collecting the new improved iee back [hen.
MR. MAINGOT. Stx-and-a-half percent as [he
case may be.
MR. —SON: Whatever [he new figure
MR. MAINGOT. All right. Yes.
MR. —RSON: YUu have to say
Starting now or next month, then you have to
collece rt.
MR. MAINGUT: But --
MR. TAYIRM: And by the way, lee me --
MR. MAINGOT. But my point is this
point is this --
MR. ANDERSON: It just seems clean.
MR. MAINGOT: I know. NO. My point is this,
you are ehe ref ore assvmi ng that we are going t0 be
knowledgeable or party to any subsequent agreement
that [hey make with .—I cities. We wou It not
have that inf orma[ion.
MR. ANDERSON. But that's --
MR. LOVESTRAND: Eventually you hear about
11. And when you hear about tha— when you --
MR. MA INGOT: Yeah. But Chen -- then it S
lose the retroactivity of what should be paid to
ne to the -lrat it —.-
MR. —SON: Yes. You do. Yes. You do.
MR. LOVESTRAW: Yeah. That's correct.
MR. ANDERSON; But you can t -
MR. LOVEBTRAND: That's why they got the
league of cities.
MR. ANDERBON: -- go retroactive.
MR. LOVESTRAND: And that'B why they have the
managers meet rn .he convention.
MR. BUNDY: No. Bue we ve put in there --
we ve put in there that they shall notify It.
MR. ANDERSON: Correct.
MR, BUNDY: But --
MR. ANDERSON: And Chen after they notify us,
ws notify ahem.
MR. —DY. -- if there's no enforceability
to it, they never have to notify us.
ol
r
r
MR. —GOT: That's exactly it. And we re
the losing end of the stick.
MR. BWi OY: 1 mean, they could wale -- .it
could be two year after it take. place, you know,
before you find out about it. If you have to
peruse//. =mean, how many -- I know I certainly
try to read as much of the stuff from the league
of cities and oth=r sources and things chat come
through, but I know I don't read it all.
MR. L—STRAND: I quit reading.
MR. MAINGOT: I think we need to proe ec[
MR. MILLER: I don't know why. We wouldn't
require that of any other corporation that's
operating in our City. Send us a notice when
you're going to change your policy with some other
city.
this whole Section 6 has no validity.
MR. MILLER. well, it does if find out about
MR. MAINGOT: I know. But how are we going
to find out about it. Where is the mechanism?
MR. TAYLOR. well, the Florida league does do
it. It stays on top on wh.— happening
r
-
a -id -MR. MILLER: Sure. They do.
MR. TAYLOR: But as to thing about -- I mean,
I can see maybe you could put a provision in here
saying that they have a duty to notify us of a
more favorable -- and that's not an unreasonable
Ching Co ask. However, I can see where they do
not want to put in the position of backcharging
our customers. Md that's something we ve a_ready
kind of contradicting ourselves.
We re telling them: You aren t going Co
backcharge our customers. And then in Chis
agreement we re going to say: You're going Co
have to backcharge the customers.
MR. ANDERSON: No. When they notify us and
say: Hey, we got -- this city over here got a
more favorable agreement --
MR. LOVEBTRANB. can t you just say
notification within 90 days? Something like that.
MR. TAYLOR! Of a more favorable agreement?
MR. LOVESTRAND: Yeah.
MR. —NGOT. Yeah. We have to have some
protection there.
MR. TAYLOR: i don't think it s a bad idea to
put in there. They shall not ry us -- they have a
r
duty to notify us --
MR. EUNDY. :Jell, no, we ve got it in there.
MR. —ION: Yeah.
MR. LOVESTRR ME: But put wic hin 90 days.
MR. BREDY: 311 i[ doesn't say within 9D
days. It says: Grano ee shall notify gxane oz.
But [here's no - I mean, if they -- they tan --
even if you put it 90 days, okay, if they donut
notify us within . days, so what.
MR. ANDERGON: Third line down.
MR. BLEDY: There's no penalty for them to
no[ notify us.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Weil, then we'd have I suit
for damages.
MR. —MOT: I know. Hut it would be more
cost again. So I think we need to put something
to [here thl— going to protect us.
MR. MILLER. Like what?
MR. MA INGOT. So we don't lose out on any --
MR. ANDEREON: Richard's favorite, within a
reasonable oI,i.d of --
MR. MILLER. well, what do you think, John?
You think we should put something in e— , what
do you wan[ in there? Do you got an idea?
ra
MR. MAINGOT: I m not an attorney. I just
put inside of there what I read out.
MR. ANDERSON: I think --
MR. MAINGOT: Florida Power --
MR. r-1— I. got the language right here.
Nithin a reasonable period Of time not to exceed
one year from the time they notify us.
MR. MILLER: What?
MR. MINDY. That S for us to give Chem
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. BUNDY: -- that we want it.
MR. TAYLOR; Right.
MR. EUN➢Y. Ne re Calking about ehe time that
they have from tha time, say, they sign a
franchise agre emene with --
MR. MAINGOT: Say with Eel -Aire with six -and -
a -qua reer percent.
MR. BUNDY: -- Bel -Aire --
MR. ANDERSON: Gentlemen, one at a erme,
please.
MA. —EY: But if they Sign a new --hi-
-- lhd-,-R,1E or seven percent wreh
eel -Aire, we may not know about that.
MR. MAINGOT. That's right.
89
MR. BUN➢Y. I mean, that may no[ even -- that
would noe certainly -- probably would no[ be
placed on the -- it would not be something that
would pertain that the league of cities would send
out. I mean, how would we know about chat?
Ana if you --
MR. LOVBSTRAN➢: They send four people to
every dinner.//
MR. BUN➢Y. Nell, if you say that they're
required -- I donut care if you say they're
requ red co notify you in 90 days or 90 mi.nutes.
MR. TAYLOR: Put Chat at the top, put in 90
days.
MR. BUN➢Y. S- even if you don't -- if they
don't notify us, if there is no - nalty for them
for their failure to notify us -
MR. MAINMOT: Right.
MR. SUM➢Y: - there is no point in requiring
e hem to notify us.
MR. AN➢ERSON. Okay. Lec me see if I can
summarize this.
MR. TAYLOR; Yes. There would because the
notification part would keep our one year from
MR. SUN➢Y. But they could wait two years.
0.
01
f
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Let me see if I can
summarize thin. The way it'. written at the
bottom is they gi+e somebody a better deal, they
notify us six months later, we can e go ano say,
oh, you should have been giving us those fees from
six months ago.
And they would say: No. No. No. That's a
nightmare. You can t make ue do it. But if you
te11 us today, we'll stare collecting them today.
But what you want in there is if you don't
notify us within --
MR. HUNDY: Whatever.
MR. ANDERS— -- six months, whatever the
time Erame is, "X" amount of time --
MR. MAINOOT: 90 days.
MR. ANDERSON: No. Sust stop. If you don't
noeiEy us within •- amount of time, then we can
go back and say, you should have -- if we want
these new higher fees or whatever or new time
period or whatever, it s applicable back Co the
end of ^x^ period of time when you should have
notified us.
MR. BUNDY: And it comes out of your
pocket --
MR. MAIN— -- right.
0-
r
MR. BUNDY: -- because that is a maC erial --
you know, that's a failure on your part.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right.
MR. ANDER— That's whaC you were after.
MR. BUN➢Y: -eah. That'e a breach of Che
MR. AMDERBON. If they notify us as vt says
on the Line 3 of the paragraph, then it, our duty
Co decide and deliberate what we want to It. But
we can t go back and say, It, it s go'ing Co be
backdated, coo.
MR. MAINGOT. Righ,
MR. BUN➢Y: Rfght.
MR. ANDEREON. Because they did their job,
we'll do our job. Fa.tr enough, you move forward.
You want somewhere in Line 3 or at Che end --
MR. MAINGO'P: Somewhere.
MR. AN➢ER— -- that says if you didn't
notify us within 'X' period If time, e coo
backdate it Co the end of "I" period of eCme.
MR. BUNDY. And you pay it.
MR. MAINGOT: And you pay for it, not
recharge the people.
MR. ANDERSON. Richard.
MR. BUN➢Y. Teey can agree to that.
92
MR. TAYLOR: So at the top you put: Grantee
shall noeify grantor within 90 days.
MR. BONOY. or whatever. I would -- I dorm
say 90 days.
MR. LOVESTRANO. whatever.
MR. ANOERSON: You negoeiate a time period.
MR. R—Y: whatever term you feel is
reasonable.
MR. TAYLOA. I don't chink 90 is
unreasonable.
MR. MAINGOT: Right. 90 days, let's go for
MR. TAYLOR: And if they don't noeify us rn
90 days, when we do find out and exe-- -t, they
shall pay out of their own pockets the --
MR. BUNOY: Retroactive -
MR. TAYLOR: -- ret roac[.ive to the 9— day.
MR. MAINGOT. That's right.
MR. ..— Well, no. No. No. You can t do
it the 9— day unless you're going to assume that
the Commi sston would have called an emergency
sessron or a special meeting.
MR. TAYLOR: 120th.
MR. ANDE'RSON: But the point is that --
MR. TAYLOR: Because they have a month to get
,c on ia.ne, too.
MR. ANEERSON: -- gives you the penalty that
say, hey, you didn't notify us.
MR. BUNDY: Right.
MR.—ERBON, And had you have notified us,
we would then have deliberated and got back to
you --
MR. MAINGOT. exercised the option.
MR.—SRSON: -- and said: Yes. We want to
do that. And, therefore, you denied ue from chat
point in 1— until today, however long that es,
our rights under the contract. You should pay.
MR. BUNOY: Exactly.
MR. MAINGOT. Tha— right.
MR.—ERSON. That's what he's trying to get
MR. MAINGOT: We both are crying to get to
chat.
MR. 9RNBY. But otherwise there's point in
even putting it . there because there's no
penalty for them not doing 11.
if y te11 — that I got to notify you
within 90 days of doing something and I don'[
notify you for two years, we11, if there's no
penalty then why I should worry even about
P,
notifying you.
MR. MAINGOT. That's right.
MR. B=! If there's no penalty.
MR. ANOERSON. The analogy I would have is if
my employment cont sacs says I get paid the same as
him, and if you give him a raise, I get a raise.
But I only get it if I tell you that I want 1t.
And the employer is — bothers to tell me about
the other person's raise --
MR. B[JNBY: You'd never get 't.
MR. AtOJERION: -- [hen I've missed out on all
that income.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right.
MR. BINOY. Exacely.
MR. ANOERSON: Because I could never respond.
MR. MAINGOT: Or — didn't have the o- on,
you know.
MR. —SON: So that seem easy Co put -n,
Richard.
MR. TAY— Im-hum.
MR. ANOERSON. And it seems like o no -
braider. The only thing I could Chink that they
might balk out would be 5o days is eoo shore a
time. But 90 days is a long came co --
MR. BUNOY: Too s 90 days f_om the time they
r
95
reach -- or ano eher franchise agreement goes into
effect.
MR. AhRERSON. Rignc.
MA. MAING— At a higher rate --
MR. —DY: At a higher rate or --
MR. MAINOOT. That's right.
MR. ANDERSON: And they would know while
ehey're negotiating this for a mooch or two months
that there's a good possibility Chat this is going
to go in and we re going co have to notify th-
y.
MR. MILLER: This is only with regard with
franchise fees; right?
MR. —ESTRAND. Mr. Chairman, 1 got to visit
the water closet.
MR. TAYLOR. All right. In Chat case, my
battery just died and take a two minute break.
[Whereupon, a recess was taken at 9:24 p.m.,
after which the following proceedings er respired
at 8:29 p.m.]
MR. TAVLOR. All right.
MR. DRAGO: Are we will on favored nac.ons.
MR. TAYLOR: Ne could be.
MR. MAIN — No. We on B seccron.
MR. LOVESI'RANJ: Page -- we re on Page 9.
MR. MILLER: 3.
MR. .— Section I(-).
MR, TAYLORt If we re d— with G(A
d.il with 5W?
MR. —l— Please. You understood the
desire for that.
MR. MJ%INGOT; I'll 911 Richard 1. d—Ill
—1-9, —t-1.
MR. —LOE: o,� (B) it'. rather —Plit—d
—Il there's 1-9— there. It —y- T, the
--t Chat It— li—lil utilities or electric
energy providers, pl—ide .—i— and -—till
with 91—t- without utilizing 91—Ir" llgh-
-.1y. — b— revenues upon which —
f—lh,- are --Ild shall be reduced I.
account for any ........ for Aill gll11ll 1h,1111
customers,its which do tlt grantee's right-of-way.
I hed 'h— is ll—thl, they --d In
there. And it kind like -- well, PlIt 01 is is
.hll. the —, is .1-ide of their —11. And
thl— p— If the ft—lhi-
97
1 Cold Chem Chat they were really nrt-picking
to ever come up -- how would we establish what
part of the franchise fee was a result of non-
right-of-way Cype of things?
MR. —RSON. That's so that if somebody
else found a way to deliver electricity without
Cs inM the rights -of -way --
MR. —STRAND. By wire, by a light beam.
MR. AN➢ERSON: -- h....... that there would
be some piece of equipment somewhere that Chen
their attorneys could go and say, ah-ha, you have
to charge Chem some - this percent franchise fee
because Cheylre uling rights -of -way. That's what
that's fat-
Th—h for them to hobble their competition.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, no. It's actually reduce
the amount that th=_y collect --
.M. MAI-OT: Ror us.
MR. TAYLOR: -- not to Inc_ease the .[hers.
MR. MAINOOT: Right. Tb reduce it to us.
MR. ANDERSON: No. I understand, but if the
other_
this allows Chem t. argue Chat, yes,
indeed, they do use some portion. And, therefore,
it can't be zero. It'. going to be one or two
percent or whatever.
ol
I — , that's for them co argue with
somebody else's attorneys.
MR. MAIN— Well, I think that Eect ion
[here should be out altogeehe r. They are actually
telling uE -- they re wanting to reduce what -
MR. BUNDY: That's going to be accounting
nightmare.
MR. TAYLOR: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: Well, I don'[ think we have to
worry about it, though.
MR. —STRAND; And a lot o£ it we ve added.
MR. MAINGOT: We11 --
MR. MILLER: Let [hem have a few things [hey
wan[, you know.
MR. MAINGOT: Huh-uh.
MR. ADLERSON: Yeah. I'd just leave that
alone.
MR. MILLER: Absolutely.
MR. LOVEETRAND: Well --
MR. BUNDY. As long --
MR. MILLER: That's something --
MR. BUMDY: As long -- I would say leave that
in what they want in, s long as they allow you to
put what you wane
MR. TAYLOR: Did you see what I put at the
bo[[om?
MR. et 1: Yeah.
MR. MILLER. —1, yeah.
MR. BUNOY: A[ [he bottom there.
MR. MILLER: Of course.
MR. TAYLOR: Should [he law not permit the
grantor [o collect franchise fees from other
electric utili[ies bu[ will allow the grantee [o
co llec[ said franchise fees, the grantee shall
t hert have a duty to collect and remie to the
gran[or said fees.
And that's -- you know, they're going [o be
able to charge a fee to --
MR. MAINGOT. For collecting [he fee.
MR. TAYLOR: -- ABC Electric for using their
lines.
MR. MILLER I. —
MR. TAYLOR. There may be some deregulation
and law [hat says, under deregulation this ABC
Company that doesn'[ use our rights -of -way, --
ME ELELY: Additionally --
MR. TAYLOR; But -- doesn't use --
additionally use our right-of-way, bu[ only uses
Florida Power lines and we can t. charge them a
franchise fee.
And then Florida Power is going to turn
around and go: There's no duty under --
MR. BUN➢Y. But Chen -- but then maybe you
also maybe need to mention - okay. If Florida
Bower was yo my to charge ABC electric a fee, then
[ha[ is par[ of [heir base revenue, too.
MR. MA INGOT. That's right.
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. That's --
MR. TAYLOR: There may be another way of
wording it.
MR. LOVESTRAN➢: Plorida Power can
subcontract ehae ouc co someone else and say,
we re not even providing the power. They're just
using our Lines.
MR. BUNDY: Yeah. That's right. But if
they're collect my -- that needs to be any fees
generated from the use of the right-of-ways
because if they al'. ow ABC Electric to use their
lines --
MR. LOVESTRAND: And elpply power.
MR. BANDY. -- [o deliver electricity to
eaul's house --
MR. MAINGOT: Yeah. Right.
MR. BANDY. - th—s going to reduce the
-- of money subject to franchise fees --
101
MR, TAYLOR: Right,
MR. SORLY: -- from Florida Power by the
amount If electricity he uses.
MR. MAINGOT: Not only the Imes but also Che
substations and everything else used in the
t ranamrssron of Current.
MR. B Y. So I would put sameching --
MR. MAINGOT: Yeah.
MR. LOVBSTRAND. Or rn the event that they
say, e ran out of power and we bought power from
Niagara Mohawk, therefore, you can t charge a fee
On 20 percent of t_ because 20 percent of our
power came from Niagara Mohawk.
MR. MA.— Correct. Good example.
Therefore, we got to protect ourselves there.
MR. LOVSSTRAND: You see what they could say?
Niagara Mohawk supplied 20 percent of the o er.
MR. TAYLOR. All right.
MR. L—STRAND: Ne ran out Of capacity,
Niagara Mohawk put in a couple new generators, so
we bought from them through the grid.
MR. TAYLOR: All right.
MR. ANDBRSON: But --
MR. TAYLOR: I put in here it may need to be
modified. But any fees rec —d from other
companies shall be subject to a franchise fee
MR. TAYLOR! In other words, any fees for
providing electric.
MR. LOVESTFAND: Yeah.
MR. ARIDERSON. And we re doe collecting a
franchise fee based on how much money Florida
Power spends somewnere else. we re collecting it
based off people's bills.
So regardless of where they decide to buy
their power or transmit their power, or anything
MR. TA LOB: we could care less, though,
under deregulation if someone rs using their lines
and now I'm paying ABC Electric and i m not paying
Florida Power any more. You just lost six percent
in my household.
that as long as the federal and state laws allow
MR. `I ERSON: No. Because if there's
deregulation we will have a franchise agreement
f3YS5li�ii
MR. BE—Y. If the deregulation law --
MR. TAY— But they have to use --
MR. MA INGOT: But they have to use Florida
P.—I. stuff.
MR. TAYLOR: Of course, with the sentence I
just added, deregulation may not even allow that.
We don't know that. But at least cover an case it
does.
MR. ENNOY: Yeah.
MR. ANEERSON. I don't chink you need to -
anything in there because one way or another if
there's solar elec_r is company iA going to come in
and do business in the city, you'll have a
franchise agreement with Chem.
MR. MILLER: There has to be a franchise
agreement for them to be allowed to sell --
MR. BANDY: Not if they don't use the right-
of -way.
MR. AN➢ERBOM. Well, and if they don't --
MA. MILLER: How can they not use the right -
of -way?
MR. ANOERSON: Solar electric company, they
donut -- chey do it right on site --
MR. TAYLOR: And beam it down.
MR. AMOERSON: -- an everybody's house,
backyard, whatever. But en that case --
MR. MILLER. They do that --
MR. AN➢ERSON: -- we -- I, that case th--
no jurisdiction Q— a franchise fee, you know,
because it's not rights -of -way. And Chen yo —
just collecting the utility tax --
MR. BUN➢Y: But that still doesn't --
MR. AN➢ERBON. -- and be happy wi. th that.
_C s a solar generated or whatever, but I think
e hoe if you have d=_regulation or ree ail
deregulation, is s going - ct would be moxe
likely that it —Id be like the same thing chat
Bell South -- the baby Bells are going through for
long distance now. They were required to open up
It— local It... for a fee.
MR. A— But if ABC Electric is providing
_t and they use Florida Power, then ABC Electric
could -- rightfully could argue that we re already
collecting - since they're using Florida Power
lines, we re already collecting from Florida
people could decide that they couldn't
105
make a very, very efficient diesel generator and
people could put them in their own homes.
MR. MILLER: Or a fuel cell.
MR. MAINCOT: Yes.
MR. AMDERSON. I just think we re
complicating --
MR. LOVESTRAND. Yeah.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. And the --
MR. ANDERBON. -- [hat.
MR. MILLER: -- Ching you can't really --
MR. ANDERSON: And if a company came in and
did that and it was monkey business, [he City
couId go it, to enforce it through the courts and
say: wait a second. This is not right.
MR. DE DY: Right, doesn't mean legal. I
mean, it may not be right, but it might be legal.
MR. MAINGOT: But here's a point. If we were
cover all these things, all we re doing is saving
ourselves and those who come after us a lot ,f
headache, you know. Ie s just like stranded
MR. ANDERBON: I just -- I think that's
complicating i[.
MR. LOVEETRAN➢: But y cannot prepare --
Dna s point is you cannot prepare for every
evencuality.
MR. MAINGOT: No.
MR. —DY: Hut you can prepare for the ones
that you can conceivably anticipate.
MR. MAINGOT: Yeah.
MR. .—RON: Richard, do we need eo do
something there?
MR. TAYLOR. Rell, half of you are Saying we
do and half we dome. To me to put in there that
if they're collecttng a El from -- if they're
collecting a fee from someone else --
MR. MAINGOT: Anorher provider.
MR. —OR: -- for using their lines, and
somehow we were unable by some 1— not to collect
from that third p rty electric company, they. that
would possibly, you know, save us from losing chat
franchise fee oz a portion of
MR. ANDERSON; Okay. Then how about --
MR. IOVESTRAND: I say let it go.
MR. ANDERSON. How about if you phrased it,
okay, because they had the phrase earlier in the
franchise about any other derivative business
other Chan supplying power, blah, blih, blah,
you'd have to come to us foz permission.
How about we say that the Six percent
-renchlse Eee, covers all power delivered with
t acil it ies in the City— rights -of -way.
MR. MILLER. Other than the land owner.
The land owner can provide his own power if
he wants to.
MR. ANEERRON: That the six percent franchise
Eee covers all --
MR. BUNDY: Yeah. But he cant 90 out into
Che ri9he-of-ways.
MR. TAYLOR: But how do you calculate it.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. But he can do ie on his
own property, though.
MR. BUNDY: Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: How do you calc lato Che
Erarchit, fee on power that [ravels through
Cheir Lines but is putting --
MR. BUNDY: Whatever ABC billed you for your
electricity, we get s_x percent of.
MR. ANDER— Because Chat service provided
utilizing --
MR. BUNDY. The City right-oE-way.
MR. AMDERBON: -- the righC-of-way that we
9 ranted to Florida Power.
MR. TAYLOR. And then Florida Rower as going
to have to pay that.
MR. -..A . No. Thae would have Co come
out ,f ehe --
MR. TAYLOR: Bue, of course, that's ChB --
MR. ANnERSON. -- derivative.
MR. TAYLOR: - seneence I added. That's
what Chae says.
MR. —1; Yeah.
MR. LOVESTRANO: Okay.
MR. BUNOY: Oka,
MR. AMDERSON: If that's where it -- I mean,
it just gets --
MR. MAINGOT: That's Che one at [he bottom.
Okay. All right.
MR. MILLER: N—I page, Number 4.
MR. LOVESTRANO. Page 4.
MR, ANEERSON: I have a feeling Chat
technology will eventually make the
x ighe-of-way --
MR. TAYLOR: By the way, on the bottom of 3
and Che Cop of 4, Ne really need Co hit Chat.
They changed Che bodily injury financial
responsibility Exom one million to five million on
a single claim and Lro�n ewo m.i Ilion to ten m: pion
on any one accident.
MR. LOVESTRANE: ➢on t Chey have co have 11
ansuran_e certificate Chat covers us --
MR. TAYLOR: No. They're self -insured.
MR. LOVESTRAND: -- as an additional insured?
MR. TAYLOR: They're self -insured.
MR. LOVESTRAND: They are self -insured.
MR. TAYLOR: We11, they a mega billion dollar
—pang. That's why.
MR. MAINGOT. ➢o you have any on - I have
something on --
MR. TAYLOR: f had asked for ten million for
a single accident. They compromised -- they wall
to compromise at five. I had asked for 30 million
on any orte accident. They're a9reei ng to ten.
I had asked for a million in property damage.
They've agreed to raase at from 50,000 to a
million. And they've agreed to raase all ocher
types of liability from Gne to five —Ti— I
had asked fox ten million.
MR. —RION: And it seems like their
meeting it.
MR. MILLER: That's fine.
MR. MAINGOT: On Section 9 --
MR. TAYLOR: And Chen - well, I'm not th—
y
et. Just. to follow up along the lines of what
Commissioner L—Heald said. That the grantee s
110
net worth -- because I was concerned above how do
we know they're going to have -- the assets now,
they've Ell billions of dollars. But it says if
their net worth falls -- vt s a provision in here
that if their net worth falls below those limits,
then they would have to get to an vnsurance policy
within 90 days ..Iing us as an additional insured.
MR. ANDEREON: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: And that's basic -- based on --
MR. ANDEREON. If you can t cover it, you
have to go get ine.,I—,
MR. TAYLOR: Right. Not likely t0 happen,
but no one thought In_on was going to do down,
MR. MAINGOT. That's right. All right.
MR. L—EETRAND. Or California Electric or
whatever their name was out there.
MR. TAYLOR: That's right.
MR. MILLER: Except the people that owned it.
MR. BANDY. The o er stock dropping 11
percent in one day.
MR. MILLER: They knew it was going down.
MR. MAINGO : I have something On Eectvon 9
(A) working right of -way. and I ve just -- i s
the second 10 last line. The right to tram, cut
ill
and keep clear all trees and limbs along the said
lines.
And I know that we ve experienced this in the
past and I know that our Administrator has had to
go It there 11 someone else has had to gn out
there and try and correct it.
And I said titre -- and they subcontlact this
out -- follow the arbor guidelines in ord- Co
prevent the disfiguring of trees to this activity.
MR. MILLER. But they I-- John.
MR. MAINGOT: What do you mean they car. t.
MR. MILLER: They can t. Some of Chose --
like, all the trees that I have in my yard --
MR. MA1-- Uh-huh.
MR. MILLER. -- they'd have to cut Chem down
to the ground almost to do Chat. And I don'l want
chem cutting my trees down the ground.
MR. MAINGOT: In some instances, you just
have to drive around the city --
MR. MILLER: I --
MR. MAINGOT: -- and see how they have made a
mess of the trees.
MR. MILLF..R: I know that but --
MR. LOVESTRANO. Because people plant their
trees in the right-of-way instead of on their own
property.
MR. -I ... 1: But there is a way -- there is
I way in which they can trim the trees properly
and there also is times when that trees instead of
leaving a big stump sticking up in there with no
limbs on it, they take the whole tree out. And
that's what they're not doing.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. I- we'd have to sit
there and police that.
MR. MAINMOT: No. We don't have to do
nothing. We have people out there who are moving
through [he city who seems Chat; iC s there. It's
provided for. And, therefore, the inst... tions
will go out to whoever is doing the work to do it
properly.
The are specific arbor guidelines
established.
MR. TAYLOR. well, and the.i.r response to that
and believe me we wen. around and around in this
very room on that subject and they did not wane. to
have to deal with the City on everytime they went
outt and t_ammed a Lree.
They indicated to me - and let me just tell
Y.,
what they said. They are on a three-year trim
cycle. I've got notes as Lo when we sat here and
talked.
MR. MAINGOT: That's fine.
MR. '—OR: And, of course, I told them, I
well, you know, you're on a tr.m cycle.
And they said some trees depending on how fast
they grow, yov have to trim more than others.
A slow growing tree, they can trim down a
little below the line. But if it grows real fast,
they really chop it down, so they don't have to
come back in three years.
And they say you -- everyone is arguing for
reliability standards. We can t get reliable
service rn -- of course, there's a lot of reasons
It— than trees rn Winter Park that they don't
have rel iabili[y. — they re saying, well,
that's why we don't have reliable service in
Winter Park because they won t let a trim their
MR. MAINGOT: My comment on Lh B, right, is
not the question of preventing them from t_.imming.
MR. TAYLOR. You re saying take them all the
way down.
MR. MAINGOT. J-1 a second. Neither do they
have to tome and get a permit everytime to Crim.
All i m saying is [his chat -- and [hey don't do
ol
ic. They have one or two subconCrac[Ors thac do
it. I mean, I se_ these guys all [he It —
MR. LOVESTRAND: Right.
MR. ..— Like Asplin and --
MR. MAINGOT: Right. I see them all the
lime. And [hey It some real ridiculous work. And
we wart[ to have that botching around our City with
all our trees and scuff like this, that's crazy.
They ought co be told Chat whoever is going to do
the work, Chat they wi11 do it in accordinq co the
established guidelines.
If the tree has to come It, if it has to be
trimmed, that's fine.
MR. TAYLOR. What guidelines? They say they
follow --
MR. MAINGOT: They don't.
MR. TAYLOR: They have an aiborist on their
staff that makes sure ev ythinq is done --
MR. MAINOOT. Where? Sitting in the o_fice.
Trust me, I know. I see it. And I see what they
do. They make a mess of it.
MR. TAYLOR. I don't disagree with you.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Cut every tree down.
MR. BDNDY: Hut is there -- I mean, is there
-- let me ask this: Is there some nationally
recognized sC andard for [his? secause otherwise
you gee so capricious and orb ie raxy --
MR. MAINGOT: That's why I said --
MR. BANDY: One arboxiet, you know, they may
have an --
MR. MILLER. No. No.
MR. BANDY: -- arborist that would say one
Ching and one may say another.
MR. MAINGOT: I, not saying to hire or
contract an arborist to advise. There are
specific guidelines that ace established.
MR. ANOER — Name them.
MR. TAYLOR. What are Chey?
MR. MAINGOT. I don't have them offhand, but
I know there are. As a matter o£ fact, up to
today in Alaqua they were speaking about it when
[he people are in there trimming the trees.
MR. BUNOY: But it is -- are the guidelines
prepared by, if ke, Che National Arbors
MR. MAINGOT: I think they are.
MR. MILLER. Here s the problem with all
this
MR. MAINGOT: I think they are.
116
MR. MILLER: Okay. I have a tree Cha[ looks
like that right now. IIndicatingl
MR. .MAINGOT: Um -hum.
MR. MILLER. Ugliest cut I ever saw. EUC
I'll be honest about it, the Cree was not that big
five years ago, okay. It grew into the right-of-
way.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right.
MR. MILLER: The Cxee is in the right-of-way.
IC s split right on the property line. it s an
oak -- it s a water oak tree or Laurel oak tree,
okay. And now chats how they cut it. And the
lines are right Cher.. [Indic.[i M]
Okay. I d—t see how we could possibly
police all That scuff, if we put that an there. I
mean, and -- and even if we didn't -- — sure --
MR. T—LORt we have code en_orcement to do
MR. MILLER. -- if the City Administrator
ca11s Florida Power and said: Look, you—
butchered up a tree over here. Go trim it up.
They would probably do that.
MR. MAINGOT: Ne's already done that; haven't
Rf:#fiFi'1lT11�
r
MR. DRAGO: Rere a the problem that started
III this. And I don•t know when it was, but it
wasp t coo long ago they just went down there by
all chose trees along 434 and Sleepy Rollow and
they juet --
MR. —GOT: Butchered them.
MR. ➢RAGO: -- did what they wanted to. And
they kind of ruaned the canopy.
MR. BANDY: Flat topped Chem and "V cut
Chem.
MR. ➢RAGO: They kind of ruaned the canopy,
so we called Florida Power and they sent their
chief arborist it here. And we expressed —
concern and they kind of said, well, sometimes we
really donut look at how they do it. we ,It cell
then, it neaaa to wear the wires.
But they did agree that prior to coming into
the City their chief arborist. would notify us that
they're going to go down Range Lane Road and trim
the trees from here and here. And then that he
would make sure that they would be cut according
to some stanaard.
MR. —GOT: Right. There are established
guidelines.
MR. DRAGo: And we said: F—a. And then the
second issue we had consistently was their
contactors cl een ing up a£ear themselves.
We had an issue over here at Hay and Wilma,
where they took down some trees and 1eft, you
know, four -foot logs and all this other stuff.
And when we called up the contractor and
said, you know: You need to tome back and finish
tt. The contractor said: we re finished with our
work and what we did was fine. we re noe coming
back.
Oh, okay. S. we called florid, Power and
they sent them back out. Oo Chose are the two
MR. TAYLOR: Th—1 an enforcement. problem.
MR. ERAGO: I understand that. I understand
that.
Mx. MAIAGOT: Well, I m saying --
MR. TAYLOR; You re going to have Chat
problem no matter what you put in the 191esmsn1.
MR. MILLER: Exactly.
MR, TAYLOR: You re going to have jerky
contractors 1— don't --
MR. ORAGO. I understand Chat.
do what thay ra supposed to
do.
r
MR. BANDY: Well I .— -- 11kR I'd
saying, if 1h.l. i. I set of standards you can P11
in there that they should -- that they —d Co b,
—t if Ili— is I nationally recognized
you k—,
professional assoetataon.
and d, and advise you .. it.
MR. BANDY: I m— and then they can t1II
they do some in and —Illy totally butcher one I,
— y.,',d something for when — calls ehem up
and 11YI: 11y, you guys Ild— 11 1 111d !,1 11
'his. And they g. out and I— and —, Oh, well,
[hey did It— Then Ih1I— - you can I —
MR. MAINGOT: —1, it might be --
MR. BANDY: objective standard.
MR, MINGOT: It might be, you —, nit
picking, but, you know, we are about Crying t. get
this City looking beautiful and we .— to make
sure —t—, we p- there is safeguarded. And
.h.t.— we have I—titI there I. —it with
properly.
r
r
1zo
MR. BUNDY: I don't have a problem with it as
l onq as there's some arbitrary --
MR. MA INOOT: I'll get -- yeah. There are
established guidelines.
MR. BUN➢Y: - objective standards.
MR. TAYLOR: Okay.
MR. MAINGOT: I'll get it and relay it on to
you.
MR. MILLER: Well, let's all agree Chat we'll
only this if ehere fs really a sec of documented
established guidelines. Otherwise --
MR. TAYLOR: They've already told me there
MR. MILLER: -- it does become 11D arbitrary.
MR. BUNDY: Well, that's whae I m say119 --
MR. TAYLOR: Florida Power has just told
me there is a national standard.
MR. BUNDY: That's what I m saying --
MR. MILLER: I agree with John chat if there
is really a documented sec of arborist 9uidelinee
with the tramming of distribution line rights -of -
way somewhere, okay, that we ought to research it
and find out.
MR. MAINGOT. So I'll get that information,
chapter and verse and that's it.
r
MR. ANDEREON: G—d.
MR. MILLER. And you -- actually title it
>n here that such -and -such standard arbo— --
MR. —NG— Right.
MR. BllNDY: Whatever --
MR. MILLER: -- due to whatever iC is.
MR. TAYLOR: Section 9(B), this is about
their rights to erect poles and so on and so
Forth. And in there they still left in chat they
want -- they muse know of some subse at ion that's
[n our right-of-way somewhere because what they've
added in here is that: No Euture substations
would be placed on any right-of-way of the grantor
without expressed consent of the grantor.
MR. E Y: Does that mean they've got one in
the right-of-way rtow.
MR. T—OR: Well, for some reason they
didn't want to cake that they aren t. allowed to
have any substations now. So I don't know where
Chat would be.
There's a huge one up here on 42] chat S m
noc even sure Is -n the city limits.
MR. BANDY. No. That's just outside the city
lim>t s.
MA. LOVESTFIWD: Mertle Avenue.
r
MR. BUNDY: There's one on Mercle Avenue.
MR. DAAOO: Yeah. Out ehe re's their
property, that's not the Cicy right-of-way. They
own ehae.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. But we could e -and the
City right-of-way, you know, everyeime the right-
of-way expands and they expand 434 or they expand
Mertle Avenue o- expand something, the right-of-
way move .—
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. But we ve have to
purchase that.
MR. MILLER: That's what I m saying. Yeah.
That's probably what they're calking about. we
might encroach o.. their thing —i our right-of-
way, who knows. They're just crying to protect
themselves. I chink --
MR.-AYLOR: well, they might even be just
protecting themselves, they don't know of any, but
a, there are any --
MR. MILLER: Yeah,
MR, TAYLOR: -- they don't want to have move
them or pony up the money -
MR. MILLER. Thae'e a fact.
MR. ANDERSON: And they might Chink Chat
we _e being capricious. in trying to nail them down
r
r
and then evict them.
MR. MILLER: That's right.
MR. ANOERSON: And since we done see a
problem, leave it.
MR. BUNDY: Well, then -- f mean, like we
were talking about before --
MR. LOVEST'RARO: They can t do it.
MR. BUNUY: -- there may be some in the
future, some technology that allows a substation
to be —11 enough to Le in the right-of-way, but
they'd have to get our I-- for that.
MR. AMEERSON: Um -hum.
MR. TAY— Section 11, Page 5. One thing I
added in here about once we ve passed the
f ranch.ise ordinance and then they a11.pt it, it
goes into effect. And I put in there Chat they
have to accept it within IE days.
MR. MAINOOT: Right.
MR. TAYLOR; Just a little minor addition
them.
MR. —DY. Yeah. We had discussed that
before.
MR. MILLER: All right.
MR. TAYLOR: And Chen we get down into (B)
there's a deletion of stranded costs. Again,
r
you're 9oi ng eo s_e 1n here --
MR. BtMDY: Walt a minuCe.
MR. AtEERSON: (A), they didn't agree CO (A)?
MR. BUNOY: Well, even before you get to (A),
in the bold face in there, the parties mutually
declare and acknowledge chat the 30-yea1 term of
this franchise.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. —DY: That negates a portion the
favored naC loos status Chat would per1111 Co a
differene agreement; right?
MR. MAINGOT: They've linked both of ehem
together.
MR. 9UNDY: S-till 11, the 30-year term 1n
Section 11 are not. severable from each other.
MR. TAYLOR; Well, you could put -- if you
really have a concern about that because you have
to take off the four -corners of this agreement
altogether. YOu can put except as provided for in
favored natlons.
MR. ANDERSON. There you go.
MR. —Y: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: That .11 clean 'it P.
MR. DRAGO: Or sece[on -- whatever the
s ectvon number is. Section I.
0-
MR. MAINGOT: Where dO you put that :n.
MR. DRAOO: After the bold face.
MR. MAIN — Okay.
MR, LOVESTRAND: Down an (A) Is that crossed
Oue or underSined?
MR. DRAGO: Crossed out.
MR. TAYLOR: That's deleting -- unae_ A --
we11, (B), it says about flrst meeting to attempt
to negotiate an agreed price for such facilities.
That just deletes the reference co talking about
stranded costs because we agreed tO delete the
reference to stranded costs throughout this
agreement except for saying they can seek Chem and
we can oppose them.
MR. MAINOOT: And that would be applicable in
(C) the right? Demand for arbitration Is also
included there?
MR. TAYLOR: Is Included --
MR. MAINGOT: Yeah. If parties do not agree
on a purchase price including any stranded costs.
That's should be out.
MR. TAYLOR: Well --
MR. MAINGOT: We have it out, It should be
out everywhere.
MR. TAYLOR. Therese 0 few places it should
f'
remain it we can Cake it out as well there.
Agreement of a purchase price, would be a purchase
pI-- I don't know that it has co state stranded
costs rn there.
MR. MAINGOT. They want Co make sure rt s,
Y., know --
MR. TAYLOR: All right. nelete It— But I
chink one -- at least one other place where it rs
to there chat I think it makes sense to have it.
But. S'm not sure tt makes sense Co have it where
you've indicated, Sohn.
MR. MAiNGOT. Pardon me.
MR. TAYLOR: I Chink it -- I agree with you
that it doesn't need to be there.
MR. MAINGOT. Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR; But there is some other place
where it is mentioned other than in the one phrase
saying they can ask and we can deny that it makes
senses eo leave ie in. But I'm not sure it makes
sense Co have it in there.
MR. NAINGOT Well, that, of course, comes
over on the other side on their Page 7, on (x)
it'A there again.
MR. TAYLOR: Another thing is is they did
agree on as far as the Triple A Arbitration and
01
0
121
all to delete that. That Chey basically agreed
that I was correct on Chat. That Triple A
Arbitration is a lightmare.
MR. MAINGOT: What page are we on now.
MR. DRAGO: 6.
MR. MAIN- Okay.
MR. BUNDY: We re on 5 and 6.
MR. MAINGOT: All right.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Okay. Now, we re going on
6.
MR. TAYLOR; Right. They deleted all that
about Triple A chat I requested.
MR. MILLER. R -hum.
MR. B Y: (GI was [he stranded -- the one
y were saying --
MR. TAYLOR: (G) is stranded costs and I ve
deleted some additional things [hey left in. They
put nothing in this franchise agreement shall be
construed as a waiver of -- and I just think Chey
should put grantee's right Co seek a stranded cost
award, period.
They went on t0 say: And the appropria..e
agee e, rnclutling without limitations the Florida
Public Service -- we never agreetl Co [hat in ehis
meeting h-
p -op
r
ol
MR. A ESON: Right.
MR. TAYLOR: Or the United 11— eederal
Enezgy Regulatory Commission. I want all t—
out' It just says they can ask for stranded costs
co grantor S right to argue thae grantee is not
entitled to an award M, stranded costs.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Well, the reason they put
that in is 111- has recognized stranded ---
ME. ANOERSON: Well --
MR. B Y: Only subject to Ruling 888,
chou9h.
MR. AND —ON! -- in ouz -- but that's today
and it could be different Chen. And Chat s why I
liked grantee's right, if any.
if you got one, you can go exercise 1t --
MR. MILLER. There you go.
MR. —SON: -- if you don't have one --
MR. MILLER: That's perfect.
MR. ANUERSON: -- i[ s not there and you're
going to be laughed a[.
MR. MILLER: That's a face. Th.— perfect
sentence, if any.
MR. TAYLOR. And so in here --
MR. ANEERSON: Md when you put the period
r
r
i
there, boom.
MR. MILLER: That's it.
MR. TAYLOR: I think that's what does ie.
MR. ANDBRSON: If you've got a right, you can
argue for Chem.
MR. TAYLOR: You don't need to get in here
talking about these agencies. And if that's where
you're going for stranded --
MR. MILLER: No.
MR. TAYLOR: - costs then It there.
MR. hose agencies might
not be a_ound.
MR. MILLER: They can go to the agency if
they want Co, if they have a right to go there
under the bottom -- the last sentence.
MR. MAINGOT: Well, you know, there's
something else to that.
MR. MILLER: Or anybody else for that matter.
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. If there's a new
person.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MR. MAINGOT: But there's something e_se Co
that. Not only can they go to FERC, but they can
also go to the Florida Public Service Commission,
right?
r
r
MR. MILLER. Yeah.
MR. MAINGOT: And, therefore, what Chat ie
doing ih actual face is loading up more rn case
anything happens -- a little more legal Eees that
we have to face.
MR. TAYLOR: That's right.
MR. MAINGOT: Right?
MR. ANDEREON: That's correct.
MR. MAINIDT. And as long as that is inside
of there, they going to have that big stick.
MR. ANDERSON: Sit if you leave it at their
right, if any, they're entitled to _u up legal
costs an whatever jurisdiction they can go to.
Hut you're hot giving Chem additional stuff.
MR. TAYLOR: In (H) where it talks about
a rbi[rat;on award. They slipped this iL. here. We
didn't even really discuss it.
But it says: The award shall identify the
amounts awarded as to each category of methodology
as set forth i.n Paragraph F. And Chen they're the
ones at their owe: choosing deleted and (G) above
and what that impl.i.es is that the arbitrator shall
not even consider stranded costs. It would go L.
the Public Eervrce commission or to FERC and leave
(G) It because I want the -- if there's to
r
71
be an argument for et —ld costs make it
[o the arbitrators because that gives us a better
argumene when you 90 10 FERC or the Public
Ser 1— this has already been considered, ladies
.hy are we here a second and a third time.
MR. B=Y. Or if they didn't argue it -
MR. I--: So I want that left it.
MR. BIINBY. Or if they didn't ar_ at befor
the arb it raeors and they tried to appeal to FERC
or whoever, you could say, well, why did" t they
bring it up it arbitration?
MR. —OR: S. I wait that put back in.
MR. MAINGOT: All right. If I could just
oack up for a minute on (G). what was the agreed
verbiage there Or (G)?
MR. MILLER: He just left it tn.
was they can ask for stranded cost_, period. we
can oppose stranded cores, period. B.it they put
to all this I—ra stuff.
132
MR, MAINGGI': Yeah. Yov already crowed it
Idt
MR. TAYLOR! I crossed it ov[.
MR. MAINGO'T: So what is in there is your
_ecommendaC ion, iC e okay Co rema_n there?
MR. TAYLOR: Yes. The way i ve crossed
through it iI how I want it worded with he word
-- where I ve got delete, I want them Co Cake that
out. They did not take it It. They underlined
it — being in there.
MR. M=Y: Are you talking here or here?
MR. —GOT; I m speaking about here.
MR. BU — Yeah. Th—d what he left in
there.
MR. MAIN— And he wants (G) left in on
(H)?
MR. BUNOY: Yes.
MR. TAYLOR. They haven't had added in ehe
Ching about in the arbitration process, everyone
is going to bear their own fees. Md I agree w.i. th
that because it would be hard Co determine who was
a prevailing parcy in an arbitrae ion o... —
MR, AMOERSON: Fair enough.
MR. TAYLOR: Then you get down To (R) and 1
and 2, that's all deleted. Those are all
r
r
r
r
references to I— and things of that nature.
MR. ANDERSON: Ana they agreed to remove
chat.
MR. TAYLOA. They agreed to remove all Of
that.
MR. ANM2RSON: fair. Good.
MR. MILLER: 1`— 1.
MR. TAYLOR: More deletions of -It,
MR. MAINGOT: Page 6, Page 1.
MR. BUNDY: Are — at (K)?
MR. TAYLOR: We re at (A). And 10 got into
talking about the 180 days. We have 180 days to
decide to purchase, then another 180 days to
actually facilitate the purchase. So a total o£
360 days. There's the removal of the FERC in
here.
MR. MAINGOT: Eut stranded costs is still in
there.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, the reason -- and this is
the area I was getting to that I cold you that
stranded costs --
MR. LOVESTRANo: It should be.
MR. TRY— - shonld be in there is because
if -- you don't uan[ 180-day clock to stare
ticking --
r
op
MR. BUNEY: Al soon as arbitration --
MR. TAYLOR: - if we go to arbitration and
now they're going to FERC and they'll going to go,
well, your 18, days Is up even though we ve
arbitrated. And when — goes by, we re still
dlllydallying around with FERC. You need co have
stranded costs mentioned in there. That's the one
place I agree it deeds to be, so our meter doesn't
start running until stranded cows is dealt with.
That needs to be in there.
MR. MILLER. Right. In other words --
MR. AM —SON: And the intent of this --
MR. MILLER: -- you don't want them to use up
our time considering all that stuff.
MR. TAYLOR: Right.
MR. MILLER: You see what I'm saying.
MR. ANOERSON: Your point is --
MR, TAYLOR: That's why it needs to be
mentioned theca.
MR. ANDERSON: - once we have e final --
MR. MILLER: Absolutely. And it should be.
MR. A RSON: Once we have a final dollar
figure, you have — days.
MR. MILLER. Right, lilht.
MR. TAYLOR: Now, the other thing I caught in
r
r
[here --
MR. ANDERSON: Which is st i11 a short time to
arrange financing, referendum, all that good
scuff.
MR. TAYLOR. Well, 180 to decide whether
you're going to buy it. And Chen when you say,
yes, we'll buy it, then ehere's another 180 days
to gee banding -
MR. ALERY. TO facilitate it.
MR. TAYLOR: -- and all that.
MR. MILLER: Right. That's plenty of time, a
y MR. ME-- Weil, have someone come — and
b y it.
MR. TAYLOR: It's still fairly tight. And
you should actually ask for more time Chan that.
I mean, that's -- now is the time to bring it up.
MR. ANDERSON: NO. But, Steve, say, you
spent 180 days going through referendum to say,
yes, the City wants to purchase this.
Then you have 180 days to figure out how
you're going to purchase it. Are we getting bonds
and the City is going to purchase izor are we
having, you know, who knows whae? Maybe a company
wanes -- OUC comes an and says, hey, we'd like tO
r
i
0-
make you a deal you can't refuse. Buc it'. going
to take us time to come up with our proposal.
That can be tight.
MR. TA M: So you could put 180 Co decide
and another 360 to close it.
MR. ANDERSON: well --
MR. BANDY: well, that would -- say that you
were are -- I mean, yeah, if you can get that
fine. If you get another 360 to close that would
be fine. But that would be saying that at the
same time You're preparing and running the
referendum, you're not making the decisions and
looking into, so you still -- if you decide --
you're going decide -- you're not going to wait
till Day 179 to say, okay, we re going to buy it.
If you ve gcne through the arbitration,
you're going to know -- you're going to have a
target figure or --
MR. —LOR: Start putting those things in
place.
MR. BANDY. - whatever. Whoever the
Commissioners are then will have a target price iu
mind. And if the arbitration comes to at chic
price, we re going to buy it. Md if at doesn't,
t
r,
MR. ANDB'S— Could be Raul.
MR. —DY: _ould be.
MR. MILLER: You don't Chink :t s yo ing Co be
us 3o years from .—
MR, BNNDY: It ain t going to be me.
MR. MAINGOT: I'll certainly be around still,
If course. And Paul will come vis_t ue.
MR. BANDY: If I'm in Longwood, it would be
-- I'ii be in chambrel or someehing.
MR. MAINGOT: Well, you know where I'm going
to be? Not too far away juet down the road down
there.
MR. MILLER: We'11 be holding the meetings
down over rn whatchamacallic over [here.
Chambrel.
MR, BANDY. Ch-1,1. That's what I said.
If I'm still a resident of Longwood, I'll be in
Chambrel.
MR, LOVESTRAMD: Most can t afford Chambrel.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right. The— fox sure.
MR. BANDY: But, no, I just think that --
MR. ANDERSON: So we'11 leave that.
MR. BANDY: If you can get 360 on the
purchase on the backend, gee it. If not, don't
wo y about it because if the COIIItl Ii..n decides
they -- they're going to know at Day 1 whether
they're going co buy :t or hoc, or whether they're
g ing co referendum.
MR. TAYLOR: I'll put 360 on here.
MR. BANDY. Yeah. If you can get ;t, get it.
MR. TAYLOR; Now, the other thing I noticed
cn my one my multiple readings of this Ching that
I see a potential fly in the ointment rs. if
y rant o'r timely notifies grantee of the grar-t ee'a
intent to purchase, grantee sha11 pay the fu11
amou.-t of the arbitration award plus any
es calae'ion for post --
MR. MAIN-T. Righ,
MR. TAYLOR: - arb ie ra don changes in the
facilities. what are we going to do, —It over
arbitrating with post changes are. I mean, that
couId be a whole new way cf them delaying this
thing forever saying, you know, we just put up a
new telephone pole, now, we need to decide rahat
chac's worth.
MR. MILLER. Right. — don't think they
Rant do i_, too.
MR. MAING01': Well, there's a reason for
that. There v a reason for chat and I put a note
here. -- and increase ch arbitration, right,
t
01
final -- the purchase price in Caes1-1y, the
22.5 went up. And the reason why it went up is
because they came with this same thing that you
have here underlf ned. That certain changes had
been made during the interim period and,
therefore, they re requiring more money.
You might want to check that out.
MR. MILLER: Well, let me tell you --
MR. BRMEY: Let s put In there 1—
MR, MILLER: -- he's right about that. Let
me te11 you something. As soon as we started this
Ching right here --
MR. ANDERSON! You notice what happened with
the poles?
MR. MILLER: -- there are more phone poles
going up in this City than you ever thought in
your wildest -
-MR. BUNNY: well, they buried cable in my
subdivision. They didn't hook it up, but they
buried the cable.
MR. MILLER: My goodness, they're everywhere
Putting up new phone poles.
MR. MAINGOT. Right.
MR. TAYLOR: And they've done char in winter
Park, they've made all kinds of .improvements in
r
r
s
0-
wlnter Park --
MR. MILLER: Oh, yes.
MR. TAYLOR: -- in anticipation of this
arbitraeton they'.. going through to jake the
price up.
MR. MAINGOT: That's right. You put a noee
here --
MR. BUNDY: What I would think -- what I
would think and this would be fair would be that
if we tell them w. re going to buy it, they're eo
make no changes in it.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, some --
MR. —EY: Other than normal --
MR. TAYLOR: -- cnanges are ..
MR. BANDY. No, Other Chan normal and
customary--t.... —
MR. TAYLOR: -- necessary.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
MR, BUN➢Y: You know, but no improvements.
MR. ANDERSON: well --
MR. BANDY. I mean, you got to --
MR. ANDERSON: And the --
MR. MILLER: That was pretty slick. I
couldne believe 'it.
MR. BUNUY: They buried cable in my
subdivision.
MR. MILLER. They were putting up some poles,
man. MR. MAINGOT. Speak to --lb— , —Ye 11
tell you about it.
MR. ANDERBON: Richard --
MR. TAYLOR: Of course, the other side of it
is is it could Cake so Song by the tame we do
this, once they know they're going to lose that
they won't maintain anythilg and we'll -- by Che
time we take it over, we'll have to spend all
kinds of money --
MR. MILLER: It will be rustic.
MR. TA—R. -- bringing scuff up to
standards. That's kind of a double -edge sword, I
guess.
MR. MAING— dell, let's leave out chat
thing Chen.
MR. _AYLOR: But that is another delay tactic
that they will use if we ever got to this Ching.
To me if they want the franchise and if they make
cerca I. improvements, daring that period of time
If arbitration to the —chase date, that's lust
—ldered part of the purchase p ce.
MR. MAINGOT. That's right.
p-
r
MR. LOVES—D: You got it in there?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
MR. '1'AYLOR: I want to delete what they're
putting in there -
MR. MAIN— Right.
MR. AN➢ERSON: Because
MR, TAYLOR: Otherwise, we'11 nev r gat t0
the end of this thing.
MR. MAINROT: 'That's right.
MR. TA—E: Neves.
MR. AN➢ERSON: Eecause if they're Roma
proper maintenance they re on a schedule where
they come through for the trees every III— years,
they replace a telephone pole every ten years or
whatever it 1s. And it will be on the cycle --
MR. TAYL➢R: laid for from profits that
they're making from my electric bill.
MR. ANUERSON: Well --
MR. TAYLOR. Right?
MR, AN➢ER— Yeah. But those improvements
will be made in a steady pattern over time. They
won [ be all jumped in at the last minute.
MR. MILLER: Well, they did it at the last
minute lately.
MR. AN➢ERION! Yes. They did.
MR. MAINGOT. I think that --
MR. MILLER. But there was nothing wrong with
the phone poles in m neighborhood.
MR. -INGOT. I think that --
MR. MILLER: They replaced every one of them.
MR. MAiN — Plus any escalations for post
arbitration c—Mt. in the facilities, that ought
to be out.
MR. TA—R: So should I put and shall no_
include any escalation £or post arbitration
changes in the facflities?
That'a what I'd put in there.
MR. MAING01': But could include --
de-escalation,
MR. ORAGO: Why don't you lust have --
MR. TAYLOR. Well, you can t have your cake
and eae It, too.
MR. MA INGOT: Right. 'That's s11 raght.
MR. ORAGo. Can you lu t leave it the
award, period.
MR. MAINGOT: Huh?
MR. —GO: Just whatever the arbitration
sward is, that's it.
MR. MAINGOT. That's
MR. —LOR: And lust line through the other
MR. —GOT: That's right.
MR. AN➢BRBON: Yea.
MR. SRAGO: Whatever is at it rs.
MR. TAYLOR: We11 --
MR. LOVESTRAND: That will stop maintenance.
But what they w111 do is come to us and say, this
pole is down, Re you wan1 us le put it .in, you got
tc pay for it. And we'd say: Yes.
MR. BMN➢Y: Yeah. Well, then that wcu Id --
MR. DR-0: They wont Me that.
MR. TAYLOR: I just think by putting shall
ncc include, would preclude them from later on
coming in and saying, eh, by the way, now, you owe
us for the increase in facilities.
MR. MA INGOT: Right.
MR. BMNOY: Yeah.
MM. TAYLOR: And when we say, well, it s o11y
the arbitration award, I said, yeah, but now
you're goinq to get what we awarded you in
arbitration, but we ve got some other little
goodies here that you're gcin9 to Reed to buy.
MR. AN➢ERSON: There's two things there.
MR.—STRAN➢: It sounds like Steve selling
MR. MILLER. That's a face.
MR. ANDERSON. Additional --
MR. M NCOT: The exhaust is separate.
MR. L—STRAND: There's this deal --
MR. P-1: unaercoazing.
MR. —MR..: No. I mean, that --
MR. DRA00: You mean the engine is separate
x rom Che car.
MR. MILLER: IC s real open moldings, door
ease -
MR. ANDERSON: -- covers so that they don't
add new buildings down at the substation of
whatever. Nut they then, say, oh, and you have
this buy this.
Nut an the case of a power pole being down,
they will come in and fix that for two reasons.
MR. MILLER. Um -hum.
MR. ANDERSON: A) Che meters aren t running
until Chat wx re gees put up and they want the
meters to run. Nut a15o because they have sacred
duty to service th,= customers of [he State of
Florida, which they keep telling us about over and
over again. And until the check finally changes
hands, they sti11 have that duty eo serve those
people.
r
ol
r
116
And they will put the pole up and make sure
�C works.
MR. EMNDY. 9uC by Chen --
MR. AN➢ERSON. They're probably Cake out of
the oldest Crookedeet pole in the yard and put it
up but Chats okay.
MR. atmDY. 3,t It chat point we will have
already gone through arbitration and Che City will
know what a new telephone pole vs worth.
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah.
MR. MAINGOT. Right.
MR. —DY: it Could be adjusted. I mean, as
far as them stopping doing maintenance, they're
only going Co stop doing maintenance on Che day
that you say that the City says they're going to
buy the system.
MR. —STRAND; Lees give Richard [he
auchority to go ahead and do the best he can on
MR. HMNDY. Yeah.
MR. MAINGOT. So Richard what's Che verbiage?
You just mentioned }ust now. Shall not vnclude --
MR. —R: I would put shall not vnclude
just to nail it down.
MR. MAINGOT: Right.
141
MR. AMOER— Yec. And everybody knows that
nobody is going to play monkey games if you ever
got to that spot.
Okay. Mext item.
MR. TAYLOR. Hang on, I got to write it _n.
MR. ANDERSON She could have had it written
three times by now. Our secretary --
MR. MILLER. You got to take a shorthand
class, Richard.
MR. B Y: And he would have used less ink
because he writes small.
MR. ANDERSON: At lease he writes legibly.
MR. TAYLOR: I£ I have to.
MR. —.IT—.: We re on Page 8 now, right?
MR. TAYL— Well, let me see what I— added
in on > on severaoility --
MR. OR 0 No. 12. Section 12.
MR. MAINGOT: Right. There's something
there.
MR. TAYLOR: There's a thing in here they put
about the 30-year franchise and if any Court
determines that the 30-year franchise wash [
valid, then the franchise isn t valid.
And basically you'd have a shorter franchise
I_
and we'd get no franchise fees.
r
/
i
I put in there: However, ehe grantor shall
have the option of complying with the 30-year
franchise term and the option to purchase shall
remaan valid.
MR. TAYLOR! If some Court determines that --
and S can t _mag ine how that would happen. 5ut iE
for some reason, the Court says ehe re's no 30-yeas
franchise, thae means we lose our option eo
MR. TAYLOR! If we want to say, the Court may
say that we don't have to be stuck with your 30-
year, but we re going [o go along with it because
we re noc going to lose our option, we can do
MR. MAIRGOT: Well, 1 mean, they're open --
right there of ter Section 11, it says: Sha11 not
be severable and Section 11 shall be no further
force or effect.
MR. TAYLOR: Yeah. Then I add the sentence.
years, we still keep our option
0.
MR. MAINGOT: Ali right.
MA. MSLLER: Aigh[.
MR, MAINGOT: Oka,
MR, DAAGO: In Section 13, Richard, they need
to change City Council to Cicy Commission, all the
way through.
MR. LOVESTRAND: Actually City Council :s a
It,— word for us.
MR. —GO. The charcer says Commission.
MR. LOVESTRAND: We ought to change the
charcer to read City Council. Because the City
Commcsscon goes back t0 the old days where they
had a fire commissioner and a police commissioner
and a public works commrseioner and that made up
ehe Commission.
And we are no[ a City Commission, really
we re a City council.
MR. ANDERSON: In three years, we can put
e hae on the ballot.
MR. MAINGOT: Right. So in the incer_m i e
Commission, right?
MR. ORAGO: Right. City Commission in the
MR. TAYLOR: Okay.
MR. LOVESTRAND. Why did you underline in 16
r
P,
A
r
Iso
non -waiver provision? is ehere a reason Eor Che
underline? Did you add that in Section 16.
MR. TAYLOR: No. All the titles are
nnaerl inea.
MR. LOVESTRAND: OR, and they didn't.
underline --
MR. TAYLOR: That one is a l.i.ttle bolder.
And merger is underlined, effective date is
underlined.
MR. LOVE.STRAND. Okay. The only change is a[
Che bottom then.
MR. TAYLOR: And they're adding that all
ordinances cn con_lict -- the terms of tars
ordinances including --
MR. DRAGO. Without limitation.
MR. TAYLOR' -- the foregoing and then they
refer that of 1559 --
MR. MAINGOT. Again,
MR. TAYLOR: -- again. And then I add in,
again, that we shall have a right and we re just
rehashing the same Ching to pass an ordiance that
doesn't conf lice with the Berms and the conditions
of Chis ordinance or effect Che franchise
ayreement.
And then I— added a provision at the end of
r
P.
r
r
151
attorney'. fees. That the prevailing party in any
litigation to enforce the term.. and conditions of
[his franchise agreement, excluding arbitration,
shall be entitled to reasonable attorney'h fees
ana execs.
MR. MA OT. Righ,
MR. TAYLOR: And Chat just keeps peoule
honest from going forward with some ludicl —
thing to harass because they know they got to pay
[heir own attorney plus ours it makes [hem think
twice. It makes '1. think ewace, too, so it cues
both ways.
MR. MILLER: M -hum. I.t that it.
MR. TAYLOR. That's all 1 have.
MR. AN➢EREON: Okay. Ro we need to still
renegotiate a few things. My - one of my
gve.tions I w1o[e down was they haven't seen
several of things. You Chink [hey'S1 accept them,
but we re not sure yet.
MR. LOVER—R: Yeah. Can we gee a clean
copy from them, [hough?
MR. AN➢EREON: Yeah. We need to get -- after
you go back and talk and negotiate, we need to
come back with a clean --
MR. T —h- With one more clean sheet.
r
r
MR. ANDERSON -- sheet to see.
MR. TAYLOR: By the way, there ie one in here
that's clean as to everything ehey put in the way
they wanted it.
MR. ANDERSON: I know.
MR. TAYLOR! Then you've got the underlined
one. And now _ would propose that --
MR. ANDERSON: But we want he clean one
where you got the be" you could get, they got the
best they could get and we got a new one that
I.
MR. MILLER: And I want you mark areas of
I-- so we know.
MR. TAYLOR: We11, I did in —I one.
MR. MILLER. Okay,
MR. AMEERSON: Yeah.
MR. TAYLOR: I mean, all Ry bird scratch and
scuff -- and the only other thing I want to add
to that if we — going back now on these items
Chat I ve written in here for changes, are you
happy with at this point the changes I've
negotiated in stranded costs or do you wane to
insist that stranded costs be deleted entirely?
MR. LOVESTRAND: No. I think you've deleted
it where it needs to be.
r
r
MR. MILLER: I think it s fine.
MR. Fill➢ERSON: You seem to have explained why
it s In certain places.
MR. MILLER: Exactly.
MR. ANDERSON: And it— fair and
MR. 'TAYLOR. Well, the other option would be
eo say: We are not going to agree to stranded
cores whatsoever, you got to delete it entirely?
MR. L—ETRANo: That could blow the whole
Ching.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. It. could.
MR. MAINGOT: They --
MR. BOMLY: And you've I,— it back in _n one
place.
MR. TAYLOR: we11, if is'. going eo be in one
pI—, It has to be in the other.
MR. MAINGOT: Right,
MR. MILLER. Mot only Chat, it s not
nececcary.
MR. ANDERSON: Because the language says, if
any.
MR. M-LER. Okay. If any. If they have a
I'igh[ to some[h ing, ehey have a right to
something.
MR. MAINGOT. $o it s only --
r
e
go
MR. TAYLOR. ea„ored I— --
MR. MILLER: We re going to deny they're owed
something?
MR. TAYLOR. -- thrown a couple Of things in
there about the reliability and the shorter I—
t h., they may raise some eyebrows about. But I
wouldn't Chink so because I don't. think they're
going to give it to anybody else.
MR. LOVESTRAND: We expect they're going to
M. with mo..t of these. There's going to be one or
ewo they're .it, to suck on.
MR. MILLER. eossibly.
MR. LOVESTRAND: And you [ell us, hey, they
wouldn't give on this and Chen we'11 decide then.
MR. MILLER: But just the money thing --
MR. TAYLOR: We ve narrowed it down after
meeting with you to only two or three different
things that needed Co be discussed.
MR. LOV£STE—D We have 10 percent.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Anything else regarding
[his or do you have your orders to go and do it.
MR. TAYLOR. I got my marching orders.
MR. AND£RSON: Okay. Then let's be done and
go back out there. Are we all set to go back out
there?
��°'�/LS �_ �s