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CCMtg12-09-02SMMinLONG WOOD CITY COMMISSION Longwood City Commissinn Chambers f7, W. Warren Avenue Longwood, Florida MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING DECEMBER 9, 2002 7:00 P.M. Present: Muyor Dun Anderson Depnty Mayor Steve Miller Commi",k tr Butch Bundy Comm asinncr Puul L—mrand Commissioner John C. Maingol J ohn.1. Drago, City Administr—, litiehard S. Tayl(,r, dr., City Attorney CALL TO ORDER. Muyor Aixlcrson callyl o s ial meeting to order et 7:00 p.m ANNOUICF MFN' E 6ARRARAI@0.9@fli IIIEnM1R+flnRin1� The memMesoElhe Longwood City Commission. Me�vr Dan Anleema. Dopat. 4lnvor Stcvc Mille. Commissioner B-1, B-d. Commission, foal Lo.cnrund and Contmissionet John C Mein_¢ol will meet in clos N session .ill, the Ctv Ain _. Richard S. Tavlor, Jr. John J. Drag,, City Adm and a Can lteponcr forth, propose of ile xsing pendingg litigation(settlement and smteg� ussion7.r iih Florida P.—Corporntion. I k men Icng� oFGme for the dosed session —,mg will ha ono l 1) hoar_ This mecline gill he wnducled in acmrdane¢will, IWida Slat,.-286.OII181- 3. ANNOUNCE TIME. OF RECESS'1'0 CLOSE O SESSION. MxJ+�r AnJenoa voauaneed at 7:02 p.m. shot the Commission — ld r�ce�s into v dosed session CC 12-09-=69 A Itf(Oh'\i'\plm, I A C."'Ei, 4f.If)hNW(II" Il is ift94.0� 1DJOUit� 411 t[ Oi� Ct.()vt 11 �f SwIQri'. I J ._ion ..!p.,�i. f)anicl J� nntleraun, \1 o�or ORt RAL LONGWOOD CITY COMMISSION 175 West Warren Avenue Longwood, Florida :.December. 9,'2002 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS ��Lt t Pr<oarg_ Ior rLu. ,r, e ors l: r,f=-1r APP B A R AN C_5: ol P R O C E —ED I N G E MR. AN➢EREON: All right. MR. TAYLOR: AM — MR, ORAGO: Can I do one Ching first? MR. TAIWR: certainly. MR. DRAGO. Let me hand out a copy eo everybody here. What am I'm handing you hand two here to ➢an and Hutch and these go a_owd here. What I m handing you is a copy o_ a letter that I received today along with a spreadsheet and a check from Florida Power fo- $—.?10.99 as was ordered by the Court -o_ the back franchise fees for the 11 months MR. MAINGOT. Okay. MR. A.NDEMEON. we neea one more fo- Richard. MR. MILLER: So that ca..e .s over w.i.th? MR. DRAGO: [Handing] No. That•s -ending appeal ae tho Supreme court. MR. MILLER: They're going to lose chat appeal. MR. MAINGO.. E. this is something to do nothing with; I—- MA. ➢SAGO. Well, just co let you know t hae they did abide by the order and we have the money a,d Moncca as going to deposit it. anyhow, 3 percent or 2 percent. MR. TAYL— Lee me scare out by reminding everyone we re here ae a settlement negotiation strategy ses�aon ano that's what we re limited Co pursuant co Florida Statute 2-011 subparagraph 8, everything that's stated chat we — talked about in here is to not go beyond this room nncil .—I the licigacion is finalized one way or the ocher. And the court reporter is taking everything down and is transcribing these but they remain rn my records until the litigation is over and they they become a public record. As I reminded you last trme, cry and speak one ac a crme so that we don't drive this young lady coo crazy. As i stated to you lase Monday night, I gave the offer -- MR. ELEDY! ➢o we need to put on the record wha is here? THE REPORTER: I ve got it. P, MR. ...: You got it. MR. TAYLOR Yeah. -- conveyed and i Chink you saw a copy of my letter stating as you instructed it was the bottom line final I—, from the City which was the $612,000, which was the 462,000 that the City presently has for franchise fees which have been collected since the Court an May ordered Chem to It aft collecting the fees again plus the 5150 it, Cowards a project which represents some 'tcorney fees and expert waeness Eees Chat totalled 612. And that was a espOnse to their offer of 230,000, which was basically half of the 462 plus 150, Oe0 which would have totalled 380,000. So then we went to 612. They've come back now and inc_zased their offer from 380,000 to $-0,000, which is a $70,000 i ncrea— They've basically said the same I hing that we said after the last meeting that that's the b0teOm liner . Thev'e not very faa_ offer. That if we go further into a rbitratiOn that thoy're not going to —I— the amount of mo y based upon the rl r fees lb., are It-1-1 .- And [hat they also really .—d this for f— 1-1.9 on the —t M—d which, of course, that's going - h— They --d t. try to 9- this thin, —11.d up It or close to the fill, of the year. And I cold them I— 1-1—t happen either. Blt if we could roach an lgrll— that we 1111d expedite -yi,,, to get this —d up. The other 1-9 they said was, .—h I didn't —1-11—ly -'. for from a legal ,dp—1 as, they said: Si- exactly .— the Oviedo agreement is es Itillly —id f., 11.1d. T— is or 1-- it And they— not And, of course, I responded by saying: well, what .—t some things such as P.,9 Said: we don't do that. This and that. And I said: Well, thl. th.l— no problem with th.9 It, if you don't d. that. She said: No. 1— g t, b, the —Y [he Oviedo agreement as or we won c agree to at. I. addition 1. -1-9 thby P,iY So that's where we re at right now. I, of course, didn't te11 her, no our bottom Rine was the bottom lire because that's not my job to make that decision. you had said that. But I wanted to bring that back to you for your information and action. MR. MILLER: May I. MR. ANllEREON. Um -hum. MR. MILLER. E. es sential'iy what they're saying Is okay. I agree with their statement about not putting subst ae ions in our cighes-of-way. They've never done i[ yet. Ukay. And there really is no place for them to do it. Eo the chances of doing chat are so remote. 2 dnn'e really think that that's big issue with us. we have a chance here, I think, to gee a free $300,000 basically. I think they have negotiated in good faith at [his poine. I really do. I thfnk we need to gee on with :C and sign up and let's rock. I med-, this is -- —I cost in9 us a fortune to continue to do this. I£ we qo to arbitration, it'I going to cos[ another Io_tune. And yu its honestly it s my opinion that $300,000 plus $150,000 il. attorney s fees is quite suffilil— I do believe they'.-e going to lose their case in appellate court and they're going Co have to pay us a Eu11 --and whatever-thousand dollars it is Z don't really see an Pp—.I:" pellate court overturning that decision. I don't believe Chet' will. That's my opinion on the subject. astounded at Steve's high offer last. t.lme. Re s a got>ator and I think ws need co thank hi.m for getting us $70,000 that we wouldn't have had had we just accepted .t t. Really. He's brought the offer up 70,000, That's a pretty good day's work. MR. M NG0.. who is Steve, by the way' MA. MAINGOT: well, you'-e speaking of Commissioner Steve Miller. MA. MILLER. Right. MR.—EETRAD Yeah. we re on a first r name basis. MR. MILLER: I thought they would bite on the whole $460,000. MR. MAIMO'T: 'That's right. MR. MILLER: I really thought they would. I thought it would be a good business dec_sion. MR. TAYLOR: I want my five dollara before you leave tonight, too. MR. MILLER: Well, that's t_ue. You het me _rve dollars they wouldn't. Okay. But he might have had inside of 0rmation which cheating. MR. BANDY: Re read the entry report. MR. MILLER. That's a face. But quite honestly, $300,Oo0, gentlemen, [n my opinion just to settle this is a lot of money. Okay. And we can do a lot of good with it. So I still g0 -- i m basing this on ehe I— that we really don't wane 10 be in the er business. MR. MAINOOT: That is your personal opinion. MR. MILLER. Well, no. It has been your personal opinion, too. Yov ve stated it many r times from the dais that you donut want to oe in ehe power business. So I m only going -- I m making this s t. at errant based on what has been said nvblicly, okay, to date. and r 11 repeat it again. one, as ro look at this -- at thie o titular situation as 1 am looking at it now. From what 'f ve been able co discern and even more so over ehe past 'I'hankaq iving period which I yr sited Charlotte, North Carolina, Florida Power Corporation and a parent company have a real established record of real hardball negotiating. Not only here but elsewhere in the Carolinas. And they will continue on to play hardball with us right down to the very end. The only reason why they have come forth with an increased offer or sweetener re because they see that we are in a position to deal with Chem in the same mannee in which they have been dealing with us. Now, I also stated that there is no rush "I . .. .. ......... .......... .. Florida .1-1. We ought 10 pursue our releeee 1. ltli—lIg the pressure from — on an --a- satuallon, but also 1—k-9 ahead in the —I 5, IG, 15 r 20 yt.— at an as a —Ppl—tht' . greet supplement .. ... ....... generating ...... our —ttl—d increaset., —.— f., the 'i"' And this i, one 1-1 why Florida P-1 11 where they are. ih,— it the power business and it is highly, highly PlIfit—I 11h:,,, 'They h— been ..... I omed to literally hold —, over lit,— And FloridaWe cannot assume anything es far as pt.— 1s concerned. we cannot assume 11— they're not 9,1h, t, wan, t, put something in right-of-ways. We cannot ,h they —y for 9--d. It has to 11 --h d—, in black and —1e. S. —t has b— going through my ..d all this time i, two things. what can we d. Co i— —il— the additional information intelligence, the ability 11 make the 1-1 i— decision which will — to a --d-i— t. our people in terms of h.. The ItIlt ito easyway is just co go alongwith F1111d. P.— and accept what they have t, offer and b, Itc— into . --l- -th 1— it, the —.1 30 Y-11. To me that limits the ippt—tity f., '. to __ an the future. In addition Co that, when we are looking at and it mill h, f d—q—t... and the markee i. —.— open, we —I --l— locked i.tI a 30-y—I Ii—t —h Florida Power with no p, out i, the --i- We are, therefore, unable ..b.... ...k t, any ..... .....e for an op i— t. provide 11 with P.— ati cheaper - you " they are the — who will And my retort to that is simply this: Why is it then was Florida Power ae S97 per i, 000 kilowatts? No doubt with the concurrence of the Public Service Commission now find themselves down to 82,000 -- sorry 882 per l,000 kilowatts. So there a_e many things inside of there that gives me cau�e Eor concern xn terms of being able to want Co rush to see element and not having had the oppore unity to further and altemaC fives we have to this sreuaeton. We are never - we are never going Co have another opportunity of dealing with this sort of sx[uatxon again in Che foreseeable future. I know it xs a monumental thing. I know that many people will probably want to use that as a big stack over my head ox what I'm saying; right. Hut the fact remains as this, you know, that we are here to represent Che best interest of our people not only in the short term but in the long term. and we 91owth requires additional funds Yes. We have passed our Longwood ➢evelopmenC Code. And, yes, we are looking a[ [he future where businesses .11 expand and/or new ones will come in with what redevelopment program. That vs going to take a long while to be realized. I ha e, as I ve maid before, spoken with people right here in our city who have come to live within Longwood from ocher places throughout the United slates rho have _aced a similar satuat ton en eheir crtres where their people looked upon the eatuacion like we are tonight with great apprehensive and misgivings. _ut of ter it became a face chat [hey municipalized, they have not looked back. I'll be happy Co find these personal persons and have Chem actually come and testify in our commission meeting. I do not wf sh to present myself as a fly in the ointment, but as someone -- MR. nAIWcoT. That's all right. Th-, okay, sut as someone who in.i— that we ought to give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. One might say, okay, the next force of action is arbitration. And Fiorida Power said: Hey, you go your way. And that's fine, you know. They're calling our bluff again. so it , going to cost us a couple hundred thousand dollars to do that. But I think chat Commissioner Dan Anderson -- Mayor Oan Anderson has done quite a bit of research info this mailer. Much more than I have done. And it es a fact that this business is a profitable business. And ehae's by Florida Power is fighting as hard as they are to hold We should not concern ourselves with [heir survrval. wa should concern ourselves with the future survival and prosperity of our Ci[y. We re here represenCi ng ou_ decisions, but sometimes hard decisions sometimes decisions chat msghc Douse a dif Eerence of opinion as iC nos within ourselves. B.t if we are —a to ourselves lh—k we ought t. 1—k at all If lh... options that we have. - have not done a. Has our Ad.hittlllb, been given the opportunity Co speak .,,h any I,— provider to find out exactly -- t, fIll out the ,,t,, into any agreement, but y- you 9- an idea 1, 1.... If 111t 11 the 111p,11111,11, If these people to what's — t pibility If being pl—ide possibly of providing with vs a complete turnkey opera—b. In s of Che cos[ element, i[ s already been shown that based on what has happened and no d—I it happening i. ,alb.,ty, that werenot looking at a insurmountable --t If money in tI,bt If thI acquisition If their 1—al —tvib—ll And that such —It If money can -_n actual f— be I— f,, by —a— —,—d from the ,� :-I our If pl.b, 1. ptt,lt — thh _h— b.— without any detriment There might be a difference of 'Pihil- on that. — not . financial I—, — .. I an attorney Just — t that . speaking from ..e little limited knowledge—ldg. that I h— speaking to people and —.—g . Sot about It i I tough d to 11 i, ,, easy The easy ..y is to sign theagreement , Florida11id. Power continues dill.- to — I also mentioned last time _n the _avored nations [hat there was a particular ,1111:illldl 11 there, which I don't 111, see , i. this revised one. So we %IM, with Florida feel ugh: to continue [o negotiate with I—, hard as they are And at the IIM time .. ought t. in the 1—k ae .1— alternatives that will enable us to make a more subse antial determination as t. —Illy what are our we say $:00,000 for arbitration. 21, within i— years, -- the people who have prepared the document are ignoramuses, within five Y—I we re —1-9 like roses. We'll —11 on our way ec —iti.g millions of exe ra d.11— for the City'i coffers. a choice -- been 'i't. to hard one. Some If you might fig- -. S. some people might "Y: -11, hey, why don we sign this and lust -- 11? L.— 1— the easy ..y out of it. T —y — looking d— the —d, 10, 15 years from now. And this is one of the --- why I ---d that we —d to have —d to safeguard the 11-- 11 our people who have 11 ii— after — - —d to hsome on to - -1— f not 30-y— but , 10-y"' rollrolling119 out t— t i— whereby if we have situations that 1h., we have .—l— at I-- one other option Co b-9 t— --r up .9— with Florida If we d. — have any f— of an out, we re I-- in for 30 Y111- Wild b, laughed out of any t—t. S, I .— Co d. what II best for the City. I might It, misdirected. gut at the same trme I m speaking my mind about Chis matter. Thae.'s all 1 have Go say .1 this MR.-ERRON: Butch, do you have anything to add? MR. ➢UN➢Y. Well, I just think that, you know, the money -- I don't have a problem with the money. What I have a problem with is they're saying sign this the way we presented it or basically the Oviedo agreement o_ not. and i -- you know, i didn't Chink -- I was not as optimist as Steve was at Che last meeting that they... Id accept that amount. R", yov know, I think at the last meeting I also took great pains to make sure Chat everybody understood when we said a final offer, what a final offer was. And, like I say, the money -- I think that ehl financial settlement coves -- or the financial offer they've made covers a lot of oeen .rom the very beginning. My concern has been getting a franchise agreemene that we can live with, and one that, in the best interest of the city. And I don't chink Chat them sweetening the pot by another few thousand dollars makes it amortized out over 30 years is, you know, $1.27 a week. So, I mean, like I said, to my notion the money is not as important, the 450 versus Che 600. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of money by , y screech of the imagination, ie s a lot of difference. But what concerns me is eheir adamancy or refusal to condition to any a 11.1st1.— to the franchise agreement. They seem to �e negotiating the dollar amount _n good faith, I'll agree with Steve on Chat. BUC they're not nego[iat ing the franchise agreement rn good faith. Thsy'ce saying we'll give you money, but you got Co take it Or leave MR. MILLER. DO you know if the Altamonte and Oviedo agreement we_e the same. MR. BUNDY: No. MR. TAYLOR. Not even close. MR. MILLER: They're nII. Okay. Not even close. Okay. Just wondering. willing to negotiate a fair franchise agreement, that's what we got to _ive with for 30 years, long after Che $a50,000 11 ,ph- and forgotten. St, you kit., I —E to make sure chat the franchise agreement as fair and equitable for the Cily. I could — less about P.— is h—, 3o years f... now, I don't care. I 11.1 It, -ily will it all IIIIIih—d be heze. It's been here for . 11i III— Chan Florida Power. And, you know, I just i.p--, but , d franchise agreementChat is 1116 for 1h, Illy I think rs th e most important p.,ti.n of this. — —1— V6 Ilk, to hear what .It i. his 1tt-I chat —d to be changed, I agree need — be —h. 1—some - tht, in there that -- let's — —1e h— looking, that I with 1— right-of-way usage, That we ought Co even if we agree and say we re agreed and we re on board, that we still go back and lee Richard tell Chem they're okay except for at least that ri ghc-oE-way thing. MR. MILLER: I think that Chat is exace ly what they want us to do. I believe MR. LOVESTR—D7 That right-of-way thing vs -- maybe there's something we re not aware of that they are Chat they could use our right-of-ways. MR. —DY. Yeah. The first thing that Richard's letter, going to the settlement agreement. I mean, because that settlement agreement chat one Cha[ [hey offered is gone now because we ve already upped the amount and everything. But going co the franchise ordinance sectron on his letter starts on we11, actually what I want to do is MR. MILLER. Where is Richard's letter? MR. —DY. It's behind the - MR. DRAGO: 3ehind the settlement ayreamenc. MR. BUNDY. -- settlemene agreemene. Right behind before you get to the franchise agreement. It's -- before you qtt to the legal size paper. MR. —ESTRAND: Last light -and —half by eleven. MR. BUNDY: Y.— MR. MILLER: I m sorry. Gave me one second. M.R. MAINGOT: November the 12th. MR. MILLER: .avored nations. MR. —DY. Yeah. MR. DRAGO: Suet keep going. MR. MILLER: Okay. This right here? MR. LWEY: Yeah. MR. MAINGOT: The next one. MR. MILLER: All right. MR. BWDY: Yeah. Some of things are kind of legalese that, you know, that -- you know, I think like Richard said before, you know, tan be 119 -aced back and forth one ay o_ the other. But - me, on the favored nations, item s. - eyree completely vat. Richard on ehac. -hat it needs -- the sentence seaeEs. It" further the intent and agreement of graneor and grantee, the grantee should not be placed at a competitive disadvantage by payments required in Che evene ocher electric ue ili[ies or electric energy providers provide services In compecieion with grantee without utilizing grantor's right-of-way. Well, Ch— 1 asking us to give up -- you know, basically if somebody comes along and figures out a way Lo provide electrical service without using the right-of-ways Chen we lose basically the rent for the right-oE- So i_ they're going to use our right— henee- ways, ty d to pay a fee. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. MILLER. So what you think fs maybe Chet' know something there Chat we don't like C here's lots of things Chat are going on, you know, with technology that I don't know anything about. I certainly am —I the, you 2� ,tnow, the end all, he ail, But it s not up eo me eo protect Florida Power's future business. MR. TAYLOM- And if I may inter pt you a second. That's a type of Ihing that you just mentioned that really has some substance to it. And do they know anything? I don•I know if they know aIythi, or not. Hut the way technology goes and it just baffles me the things -- MR. MAIRGOT: Even if they did, they wouldn't tell us. MR. B=Y: E+- if they don't know anything more than what the group of us Meting here right now know, we know enough that technology is changing [hat [he re•s a possibility for that. made and I Chink Ihis i.. really important and this is one that I had highlighted as well. If Florida Rawer as serving the Buse ome rs using our rights - else that we have to deal with, if somebody else comes along and figures out how to provide electricity not using the rights -of -way and they 26 don't need eo come -- I mean - MR. LOVESTRAND: Self-contained units, et s say. MR. BENDY: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. -- MR. LOVESTRAND: Houses or - MR. AN➢ERSON: -- consider it -- MR. BENDY: Or a mini -generation -- MR. ANDERSON: I- on. Hold on. MR. MILLER: A Ching Of the future. MR. ANDERSON: Forget what the technology is. If somebody finds a way co do tt a different way, that's not my problem that somebody else has a better business and a better business model. My problem is from the City perspective, Z still have to deal with Florida Power using ehe rights -of -way. MR. MILLER. Exactly. MR. ANDERSON: And as such just because somebody else comes in with something better doesn't mean that suddenly Florida Power doesn't have to pay us any more. That's a .roblem I have. And that s one of these these are the little poison pills Chat are subtly introduced in here Chat need to be addressed in which Richard was trying to address. MR. MILLER: Well -- MR. TAYLOE- And quite frankly -- MR. L—TRANO: And some of [hem we said were important and some were less impoYtan[. MR. BUNOY: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR: ?fell, what Steve sa_o about [hat there's probably no[ anyplace t - substations and they probably never would it that. i Chink he's right on that. eat if to s not a big deal and they would likely never do it, Chen why won It they agree to put. I— in there? MR. —GOT: That's right. MR. L-bl: Right. MR. TAYLOR: [Shakes head negatively] It s just something -- you're right. That particular one is no[ that .import ant, probably will never happen, but I would be _emrss doing my job if I didn't say I think we need to just nail it down like everything else ih .sere. And, quite frankly, what Butch brought up about - .is something that if that ever came about that would be devase acing. MR. B Y. Yeah. E—Itly. MR. MILLER. I Chink they want us right now coniyhC to get past he Honey issue because that, what hosts them the most. An they want you to go back and say, okay, Chi, is what we'll do. Yeah. They do. MR. LOVESTR—: That', what they say. MR. MILLER: Guarantee you. It doesn't matter what they said. Okay. MR. TAYLOE. 1 just die aysee with what Y., said about the money issue. T chink they're, as we should, be more concerned couple hundred thousand dollars Co Chem i, ockec change. MR. MAINOOT: Why should we concern ourselves with Ale amonte? MR. MILLER. -- why should - well, whae m saying if Altamonte doesn't have it, Chen we shouldn't have it. Do you see what I'm saying? MR. TAYLOR. No. MR. MILLER. If it s not to eheir agreement, it shouldn't be in ours. MR. MAINOOT: Altamonte decided to MR. TAYLOR: I totally disagree with you on that. MR. MILLER: — So you misunderstand what m saying. If Altamonte will not let them do that, then we should noe. let them do Chat in my opinion. MR. BANDY. Yeah. MR. MILLER: -s what I'm saying. MR. TAYLOR: Oh, okay. MR. MILLER. tou see. If it's good enough -- MR. I-- I don't know if chat -- MR. MILLER: If it s good enough for them, it should be good enough for— That's why I asked about ehe comparison between the two agreements. MR. ANDERSON: And I wish we could see that MR. MILLER: And if theyve already done is _o them, I guarantee you thaw re waitrng £or us to M. back with these few final points ana negotiate I—. I guarantee you they a_e. I don't care how hard lined they sounded last tame. That doesn't matter. MR. —DY. The other thing that I have is right down below it en Section 1. I agree with Richard on the indemnification. MR. MILLER. .Are we all pretty much agreed; that's the question about this favored nations hi ng? MR. MAI-1 No. MR. MILLER: Are we agreed that we have this .n the agreement, _nrs -- MR. .-LY: I chink that - I mean, me strongly, I mean, because that's what -- you know, t hag s what you as.<ed was what I felt were the �t anding blocks in it. MR. MILLER. We11, I'm leaning in the same direction. MR. BUNNY: And under Section 6E is, I agree with Richard a hundred percent, en that that needs to be deleted, you know, completely because it -- you know, re s not up to us to look out far Florida Power s Future business. MR. MILLER. Well, MI. Chairman, 1 would like .or us, of you would, if it s okay with you, to 01 r 01 agree on this point by point. So [hat we don't have to go all back through it again and decide what points we liked and what points we didn't. In ocher words, if we re going eo talk about the terms of the agreement now - you know what I m saying - then maybe we ought to agree or disagree on each point. MR. TAYLOR: The only thing I would say on chat -- MO. -Lill ON: I think there's a place for chat. MR. TAYLOR. -- 11 we could spend a good part If the evening -- you know, on into the evening for several hours probably discussing it. And until Florida Power says, yes, we will sit dow. with you, meaning me, and discuss these things, I think i[ s kind of pointless. And the other thing I would -- and I m not saying you shouldn't -- I ve heard people say this 1s the bottom line before and it s not their bottom line. But a[ some point you It— losing credibility when you say this is our bottom line and [hen you go -- MR. —1: well, see MR. TAYLOR- -- uack again -- 01 r ol MR. RUNDY: -- that's what i m getting ae. MR. TAYLOR: - and -- MR. ANDERSON: One at a time. MR. MILLER: Yeah. gut I like the way Florida Power as doing this. I really do. Because eventually just like anything else in negotiation, they're goinq to have to roll over and sell the car, plain and s mole. And I think it s up to them to sell the car on this next one. okay. If we go back, as Butch said, and address these points chat you've pointed out in your I—— between us which one of Chose points are impoxtan[ co us and which ones are really not so important. MR. LOVESTRAND: Richard said some of them are very important and some were not so important. Lee s not worry about something that may not be so impore ant. MR. MILLER: Correct. We need ehe important ones is what I m asking. MR. LOVESTRAND. Weil, the light -of -way business -- MR. ANDERSON; I -- after Eutch is done, I y have a lot to say on this as ..— MR, MAINGOT: We11, why doesn't Butch ol P, contanue on with it then. MR. BI 1: The other -- going on to Sectaon e, the indemnification, I agree wholeheartedly with Richard that they proposed as i ndemnitication as -- and there again, I, not a financial waeard. I think that Paul probably knows more above that than any of us. Rut I have greater liability insurance on my company than what they're proposing for this franchise agreement. 1 mean, $50,000 for property damage resulting from any one accident. MR. M NGOT: That's a joke. MR. HUNEY: If they have an accident that sets somebody's house on fire and burns it to the ground, they're going to write them a check for 50 grand for a house in Columbus Harbor that sells for 200 grand. The houses in Skylark -- my neighbor juse sold a house for $134,000 in Skylark for gracious self-insurance; is ae not. MR. MILLER: Don't they have some sore of P. r 34 blanket policy to cover claims -- MR. EUNDY: They are saying they are self - insured. MR. TAYLOR: Totally. MR. LOVESTRAMI. Yeah. But then you also have your own homeowners insurance. I" I "-- MR. BUNDY: Yeah. But tt s not up to our homeowmers to —id. coverage -- MR. MAZNOOT: Why should we cut the slack for them? MA. BUNDY. -- for Chat. MR. LOVESTRAND: 10 million for bodily -- MA. ANDERSON. One at a ttme, please. MR. LOVESTRAND: - injury. MR. BUNUY: _ mean, they propose one million for bodily injury, ehree million for bodily injury res ul einq from anyone. MR. MILLER: That's Richards letter. MA. LIVE..TRAV➢. Oh, okay. I got Richard, letter mixed up with theirs. MR. BWNDY: 50,000 and then one million. Z mean, Z like -- you know, Richard is closer Chan, Y., know, anything_ I mean, oecause you re calking above nowadays in today's litigious socrety, of it s an accident resulting from ra op r 35 something in the right-of-ways, they may go after Florida Power, But, hey, don't come after us, You know, they're going to sue everybody and lee the judge sort it out. It, I mean, you know - MR. MILLER: The amounts of liability insurance en their franchise agreement as way cff. Okay. MR. BUN➢Y: Yeah. I mean, like 2 say, 2 v_ got greater liability insurance on my company chap they have in -- MR. MILLER: $50,000. office, the landlord says liability and I m only renting two rooms. And they're not much -- if you put Chem both togeC her, they're above the size of this room. MR. BUNDY: I know, vie -- I mean, almost all of our general contractors require ua to have -- MR. L-ES—D: A million. MR. MILLER: I have a million myself. r 0- I MR. LMDY: -- a three and five and cen million - -MR. MAINGOT: I have $350,OOU. MR. MILLER: I got 2 million - MR. HUN➢Y: Yeah. Ours ie three million, ve million with a ten million umbrella. And a million for whatever. MR. MILLER: - for my business. MR. BWi➢Y. I1 ,It - I agree with Chat. So Section 1 1 [kink that Richard is right on with that. MR. LOVEETRAND: Maybe hie numbers can be negotiated. MR. BANDY. Yeah. But significantly north of where they are. MR. MILLER: Yeah. Noe only that that's a matter Eor the courts to decide. You know, t L not for us to decide that much. But we need to be way up there. MR. M-Y. Eectron 9 is the one with she substations and the righc-of-way. MR. LOVEB'LRAN➢: They don't want that. MR. BDNDY. I. obviously, you know, feel that substations -- if thty want to pus she substae_on in, they need to buy the land and build one. rr el MR. MAINGOT: That's right here, and the ones chat -- I mean, (A) .vn.v L.i anon of purchase procedures. I Chink that it logical chac a =ranchise agreement runs ]9 years not 29 years, nine months. So, I mean, why do we need to tell them, you know, we re goino to do something ac the end of ae. Now, it may be to our advantage co do so o_ Co the City's advane age ae chac cvme -- MR. LOVESTRANO: Not a big thing, though. MR. B[mmx. -- you know, to do it. And as far as x m concerned stranded costs, there doesn't need to be anY mention to is because it just adds legitimacy to something I feel they're not entitled to. The other thin9s are more legal, you know, 1 e9a1 terms Chat I would leave up to Richard as to hat, important and what's not important. But I don't think that we need in our franchise agreement to make any reference to stranded costs because [hey surely cannot say after what they've gone through during this last few years of time period that they -- because the arbitrators rejected in Casselberry the idea of stranded 01 0- And they surely because an ay re ement is for 3o years. If 2 have a contract with you to provide all of your ceramic till for the next 12 months, then I nape no reasonable expectation even if 1 m the only till company in town. You may not buy any. Once that agreement has expired, no It-- has a reasonable expectation. So to me you're just adding legitimacy to it. MR. LOVES-: I'd just like to comment on that. That's a csu_t question anyhow. That's what Richard po need out before. And that's the reason they appeal to FERC because FERC has recognized it in the past. So it s a thing that we shouldn't wor y o much about. It's a cou r[ thing. Even if it s not I. there, they're going eo go eo court to gee ie. MR. RANDY: woll, they can - but than thoy can go to court to gee it, we re not putting it in there and giving Chem -- you know, putting something in their hand that they can say, well, if they hadn't thought this then they wouldn't a11ow it to be put in there -- MR. MAINGO_. Correct. Correct. r r i mean, that's my feelings on it. MR.—REREON: Mo. You make a very good point because if you put it an the 41anchise, you're giving additional weight to what they may or may not get because they can do that exact thing. They can point and they can say: Ely, how can you argue that we donut have a right to stranded costs -- MR. MAINGOT. Because ie s to the agreement. MR. ANDERSON: -- because you nIt rt right in here that we re allowed to go seek them. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. ANDERSON: So —hi going to just decide how much Stranded costs we get. And I don't -- this -- MR. MILLER. Then why can t we just say -- MR. ANDERSON: See if we just say -- MR. MILLER: -- chat while the City of Longwood lends no legitimacy tD stranded costs, Florida Power has the right to seek that through an arbitrating process o1 some kind. MR. ANDF,RSON: Or you can jvse delete the whole thing. MR. BANDY. Yeah. And the Court seecle it. ol r- MR. ANDHRSON: He cause the 1— MR. MAINGOT. That's right. MR. AND —ON -- outside of e— room ca.. decide w..ether or no_ they're enefeled to it. MR. MA INGOT: That, right. MR. ANDERSON: And as _ong as we d—t stack in there, then we'll let the law operate whatever it, 9oing to operate. MR. H1MOY: Exaeely. MR. i DERSON: Without giving in -- MR. MAINGOT: Cive Chem ammunition to knock our head off. MR. ANOERSON Correct. MR, TAY— There is, I believe, by the way, a one-liner that says that the City i., not necessarily ag tt—M or that we have the right to fight again,t stranded costs. Something to that effect. And then it goes on for paragraphs and paragraphs about how and what and where they're encit led to --Rd cos— S. it is way weighted i.n their favor. And that's true that they will say: What do you mean we re not entitled to stranded costs. Look ac the I-- pages that we dedicated to this -- MR. LOVESTRAND: The old agreement didn't. r FA mention ie; didn't it. MR. BUNUY: No. MR. AREMOSON: Correct. -t did not. MR. NUN➢Y: And FIRE is only going to -- MR. MILLER: How about -- MR, NUNOY: -- from my understanding -- MR. MILLER. -- the Casselberry agreemenC? MR. TAYLOR: There is no Casselberry agreement. MR. MILLER. I mean, the old Casselberry agreement, did it make any -- MR. TAYLOR: MR. AM ERROR I chink it s the same as ours. MR. LOVESTRAN➢: Their old --etc was the MR. ERN➢Y. From my understanding -- MR. TAYLOR: Real basic. MR. RUN— -- generally F— does not recognize stranded costs if they fall w.der -- unless they are subjected to them because o£ -- what is Ruling 880? And, you know, I mean, and that's up for debate as co whether, you know, that's under it. So, you know, I mean, it -- I just say delete any mention of stranded costs. If they're going fa ri to seek them, they're going to seek them. And FERC has higher regulatory authority in that matter than we do. So there's nothing Chat we can put in there that's 9oing to usurp that authority that FERC has. so, I mean, I just Chink that - I don't want to add the legitimacy to 11, If they wan[ to seek Chem, Cha is up Co Chem what to seek because they can, you know they can take this to coure. MR. MILLER. Did the Altamonte agreement mention it; do you knowI MR. DRAGO: No. MR. MILLER. It did not. MR. BANDY. The Altamonte agreement doesn't have a purchase option in it. MR. DRAGO. Right. MR, BANDY. So we'd have no need to refer to MR. MILLER: Thac's right. MR. L-EETRAND: Excuse me. Can I ask a question? Eutch, when you said you recommended chat we get Sece ion 1111 working the right -the -way as the attorney wants. aut you didn't mention 9(A) and I don't -- it seems to me if they're going to do elecer'ic, they shouldn't have to get permits--yti— they — , tit, —ay from the .f those that I don't think MR. —EST— I know we had a bad experience. I'm telling you. i. all th- —P-1— 311 1 T 1—, well, y.. can add— it. You can -- — — of _Yb- .1t, you know, 7, it like I "—ii- that we may —1 eo have some input and they .—t -Ith—itl t—, then, you know, .e and— ... going 11 y,II 6 1,1 aC them. MR. MA NMOT Th.— exactly what they do. know, other think, but 1 11— know. MR. —OR! It my discussions with Gail Simpson and we been talking., iveryseriousaboutthings.And then.. — been all these because -- and I n. not sure h— Wi,,— P— does it', j111 jumping 11 111, table and saying: You ze not , t. butcher our tiees. B- in winter Park, Lhey -- let them butcher — 11— 1-- And they -- and she's saying -- - j there's ', `probably ......y . ......bit of, truth - i, -- you might h more outages lt-- you d—1 1— the — limbs Further from III il I talking with J— D—g., I think aboveeven before we really goC info Chis litigation, c here was some concerns - and I chink a 1- .f people have --t. —.t tht butchering of whileehe trees. And I —.1d agree Chem back. If —t 9— y can C have — limbs growing into the lines. It'. also as I talked t. I— Simpson . —It— of economics. ........ If you've '- 9't the lines here and you butcher them down to here, you don't have t. come back for Ei— y-- - ..— Yeah. MR. -- lhll they Ilk, more l—y, 1 if Y'. only take Chem down t. here [indicating? might have to — back in two y,,t, and y.0 don't make as —h .—Y. j— of service, but economics as Co how oft— you have to come back. And Steve you should know that -- MR. MILLER: That's a fact. MR. TAY— - if anybody. MR. —MR— It s a bit more than that, ough. MR. MILLER: It s - MR. MAINGOT: It'. more than that. MR. MILLER. But there's no question Chat t haC's true. MR. MAINGOT: They do not do the tr,—tg. Ie s a sub<ont ra ctor or two sub<ontractora. MR. BNNOY. Yeah. But they still pay for it, theugh. MR. Mhl—T. Yes, of course. But they do and they continue to butcher the trees. I am saying yes they have every right Co [rrm it back Co clear the lines. But there's also a way of trrmming a Cree Co ..ave a proper balance. And they don't leave it sticking out there like a sore thumb and it looks absolutely wretched. And this is what they do. MR. I—: Well, they tican solve our problems just underground all the ulities. MR. ML_NGOT. Noe only here, I see them doing It elsewhere, too. MR. TAYLOR: Flat topping them. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. MILL— well -- MR. MAINGOT: You know, leaving a big tree -- MR. MILLER: -- I'm not - MR. MAINGOT: -- with Che head completely cut off. Take the tree out. MR. MILLER: -- MR. MAINGOT: Take the tree out. MR. MILLER: -- of people don't want their trees taken out. MR. MAINGOT. You will leave it. MR. MILLER: I m not quite as passionate as John is about the tree. MR. MAINGOT: No. It. makes the wh01e landscape of the City, the whole thing, where eve y subdivision looks terrible. MR. TAYLOR: That's where undery rounding would be yood. Hut I don't -- we probably shouldnc even go there because they aren t going eo ayree to that. MR. MILLER: — MR. TAYLOR; gut undergrounding -- like on my street, everything is underground and it s great. You d—t Nave co worry about. MR. MILLER: And you took out a tree. So I know. MR. TAYLOR. Noe because of the power lines. MR. MiLLLR, well, that's true. MR. ANDERSON: Let's move on. MR. MAINGOT: If they're going co do it -- MR. MILLER. A huge tree. MR. MAINGOI': -- this just says that our people are going to go out there and a-e going to check and see that the job is being done properly and not butchered. MR. BLIR— well, I mean, if y re going to require permits, I mean, you're talking about a lOt of permits for that. I mean, because they may be cutting trees all over gown. Now, maybe tnseead of permits -- MR. LOVESTRANO: You re dealing with that department down there. MR. BANDY: -- put in there -- put in there that the city and 11-1a Power will work out, you know, some sort of tree trimming policy. MR. MAINGOT. Right. MR. BUNDY: You know, whatever that arborists approve. i mean, I don't know. MR. LOVESTRAN➢. we can pass a tree t_amming ordinance. MR. MILLER: Yes. And I have no problem with MR. BANDY. Yeah. I mean, I have no problem, you know, with something like that. MR. MILLER: But for Florid= Power having co go down and get permits eve rytime they tr— trees �a ridieulons. MR. BUNDY: They may have not -- they may MR. MAINGOT. I'll go along with that. MR. BUNDY: -- know when -- MR. MAINCOT: BUC we must have some say in how ehey -- MR. BUNDY: And that's the other thing -- MR. MAINGOT: -- do [heir -- MR. LEE-- Lets move on. MR. BUMDY: They may noe even know when their subconeractors <om_ in antl tr>m. MR. MA INGOT: They don't. MR. BUNDY: I mean, ehey decide: R111, we need more money this mooch, let's go [rim some -or E'lori da Power. And there MR. LOVESTRAND: C and R, you want to remove. r 99 E and K, I mean, correct. MR. MAINGOT: Under Scctton 21 MR. OUMDY. Well, I agree with S, G and K. Any references to stranded costs, I think, should It deleted from the franchise agreement. If Richard's missed any with chose, I just say we should just leave them all out wheeher it s the ones we say or the ones that they say, just leave them all out because the courts are going to ultimately decide that or EE11 if 11 s still around if they survive the Enron debacle. And also I really, really agree with this -- the time line that the City has, you know, from the time of arbitration. MR. MAINGOT: That's -- MR. SUNOY. I mean, that 180 days. That's on the last page in there. MR. MAINGOT: Righe. MR. [;_y: It could Cake 190 days -- I mean, at I80 days, you know, doesn't give us any time to evaluate the arbit�aeion award and set up a referendum and do all the research. I think you need to have 365 days. And, you know, the Problem with that is that if y - at any point in there - I don't see it r anywhere addressed in there. But are they going5o to pay franchise fees during that time. i would assu e probably they— going to argue Chat, no, you're going to buy the system, so we re not going to do it. My argument would be that, well, but ycu're still using the right-of- ways. So, I m_an, that would probably, again, be It to the Court. MR, LOVESTRAND. That might be solved by the t. MR. —DY: Exactly. So, I mean -- but S Chink it needs to oe 365 days. MR. TAYLOR: And on some things on stranded costs gybe it will be decided by the courts, some won t. But one of things with a good agreement, the more things you have nailed down, the less you're going to spend on att.—y'Y fees having MR. MAINCOT: That's right. MR. TAYLOR: — Court decide what these agreements mean. i mean, poor agreements are what make lawyers rich. MR. B[INDY. I mean, I just think that stranded costs, you know, I mean, any agreement to [hat should -- should any ag reemen[ on that -- now, the franchise fees, I'd say chsow that in I'll they, you know, to the interim as long as they're providing service even at the expiration oI the franchise agreement, if they can cone_r_ue -- are continuing to provide service, then [hey need to colt -hue to pay the franchise fees and we won [ need to worry about a Supreme court ruling. MR. OUNDY: That would be one way to do it. because [hen it wouldn't he subject. to 1-tigation if they're already agreed to rt prior to that. I MR. MILLER: 3ut I think this one court case now is going to [axe care if Ch l I— it future. change ie. sue, i mean, xt. we - MR. MILLER: No. I don't think so. MR. DWDY: -- put it in there that as long franchise agreemene -- that as long as they're providing service, then it is up to Chem even if you set ,t - the old agreement. MR. TAY—: -11, the other thing is if you put in the conC race, the Supreme Court could decide, no, they wouldn't have Co pay it at Che S2 end of a franchise, which I don't Chink they're going to do. Hvt, say, they did, anything could happen. You can contract away certain rights. The Supreme court says there's nothing saying you'd pay beyond that. eo we re not going to en-orce that. MR. HUNDY: Yeah. MR. '-LOR: Whereas, if you say in an agreement you will pay beyond, we11, then the courts would say: Well, that's different char- the supreme court case -- MA. BANDY: Yeah. MR. -OR: -- because you've agreed to MR. H Y: k d Chat', -- MR. ANDERSON: And that goes to the stranded costs issue eo me necause they could say, oh, see, you know, you would not nave been entitled to stranded costs. Hut, see, you mentioned it in the contract, therefore, it gives it weight. same kind of a principle. Which I agree, if a reasonable person could agree that, hey, the contract i, done. They don'[ owe any franchise fees any more. MR. BANDY: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR! And, of course, it even goes further than Chat. If you put in there that you re not entitled to stranded -s and even, though, I understand and I m not an expert on matters before FCRC. I can you that when Florida Bower goes to FERC to say we want stranded costs and the it, points out they've agreed not to ask for Chem, that's going Co influence Ili it decls_on on whether they get stranded costs or not, if they have cons raced away their rights Co do Chat. MR. MILLER. Yeah. I don't -- MR. LOVEETRAND: I like Dan s idea -- MR. MILLER: -- Chink they're going Co go along with Chat. MR. LOVESTRAND: - of not mentionin9 it being I best. MR. ANDEREON: Correct. Lee the people above us take care of it. MR. LOVEE'I'RAND: Lee the court do It. MR. MILLER: Not mention it. MR. MAINTOT: Okay. How about this point of what 5uCch has just brought up with regard eo t ranchise fees? MR. ANDEREON: Well, if you were to say and ol eo craft a _angua_ that said that the franchise tees will be paid as long as Elori.da Power -- MR. MAIN— Provides the power. MR. -RERS— -- provides service. And don't add the phrase subject Co this agreemene. Eut just: The franchise fees will be paid while Florida Power provides service using the city's right-of-ways. That covers a couple of other things. Supposing we leave this a.. it is, you I. —down to So years minu.. ch— months when you have co Cell them, you know, we think that we re going to purchase this Ching should CF.is be ,0 years. So Chen you say Chat you're going to purchase ic. There's a couple of things in here. One, you don't go seraigh[ _o arbitration. Ie says that you're going <o Calk about it and see if you can come Co an agreement. How long will that take? Because if they interrupt this as, hey, the franchise _s done and we re not going Co collect franchise fees any more, Chen while you're talking about what the purchase price is going eo be, no franchise fees. Then you end up going co arbitration, which could take you, you know, it could take you up a 55 year to get through Chat process to when you say we re going to arbitration. Okay. Now, we got to pick arbitrators- Now, we got to schedule a etme Eor an arblCra[ion. Now, we got to do the arbierae ion. Then we have co wait for Chem to come up with [heir report and judgment, at cetera. You re going Co rack up more Then it says that Chey cat. watt another 180 days before they decide to appeal it to the first court. So then you have to go eh rough all the appeals for that. Then they'll say: Oh, and of ter [hat, we got another 1e0 -- Mx. MAINGOT. supreme court. MR. ANDERSON: -- days to watt while we decide to appeal is co FERc and then that can cake you another -- I mean, you could tack on three years to the end o- the termtnatton of this -- Mx. MAINGOT: Without franchise fees. MR. .....ON: - with,,[ franchise fees if that was tnt e'xpre[ed chat. way, which is why I chink it s really important to say: The franchise tees are going to be delivered uatfl service is termtnatea. And if you Ch-: k about that being in ou, 56 previous franchise, had chat been he case, then they couldn't have come Co us and said: You sign this it is today without a purchase price or else. Because we could sic at the table and say: No. we need a purchase option. Because they use the lack of franchise fees to beat It over the head and they did gee Alt--- to blink. And so I think that that's an important Ching to be in there that you're not holding anything over anybody's head. You're going to sit down as equals and negotiate the It franchise. that are outside of what Richard's -- but in the actual ordinance i—If, section 4(5) annexation that the franchise area subject to expansion or reduction by annexation and contraction of municipal boundaries. ➢oes chat mean that they're agreeing in advance that if we annex in that those become 51 customers of oUYs. MR. ANDERSON: No. MR. —AY: 01 is this -- MR. ANDERSON: It s their customers. MR. BDNDY: Well, is says: G-1-1 would Chen provide within 60 days of such approval of the annexacvon or whatever. MR. ANDERSON: If we annex, we have 10 days to notify Chem that you have new customers. MR. BANDY: That we have new customers. MR. ANDERSON: 'They At. That they have new cu sComers and they have to scarf paying franchise _eea from chose customers, ec cetera. MR. BUNDY. �_a re paying the franchise fees. MR. LOVESTRAND: Yeah. BUt that says cur__nt anyhow, I believe. MR. ANDERSON. pretty much. MR. BUNDY: All right. Okay. That clears that up for me. The Ocher thing is -- this is just kind 0f, I guess, I don't know. Section n' acceptance. First of all, it says: It shall become effective n beiasse ng legally pd and adopted. IC s _urc her agreed chat the g nc ee sha11 accept th-s _ranchise as of the dace ,f passage and adoption by the City Council. And sha11 signify its SE acceptance in writing within 3o days. If the grantee fails to accept this franchise within 30 days of its date of passage, then this ordinance is null and void. Does that .—I chat we re yoing to etc up there, we re going to pass this franchise agreement and then they're going to decide whether they want at. No. That's not the way we do If a general contractor on this building, he provides the contract. He s signed it and agreed there's no point in ue sitting up there having public debate about this and settling on it and everything. The way we car handle it, if this is done, Chen we would say: okay. It,s already negotiated then they need to bring us a signed agreement in for us to sign off on and do -- you know, do for that. Because we could -- you know, we could go through all this and Chen they could decide: We11, we don't like this, you know, this word in negotiating, you know, public 59 I Chink that if -- you know, it says Chat CC s -- that they agree to accept this as of the daI' of passage and adoption. tut then they Curn around and say: No. We I got 3o days Co accept. And then if we don'[, it becomes 1111 and —d. Now, which is it. Are you accepting it the dace of adoption, or do you got 3o days -- MR. MAINMOT: $1 Ce11 us whether you accept MR. B Y: -- left, You know, to do it. MR. LOVBSTRANJ: Richard can reword that. M . BLMEY: I Chink you need -- I just think if you just delete the -- MR. MILLER. ?he last sentence. MR. BUNDY: -- last sentence. And from where _t says: As of the dace of passage and adoption by — city Council, period. And then that: And shall signify its acceptance in wrtCing within 3� days a_Cer the City Council's approval of [his ordinance. Because I'm assuming that even though all C hings are subject [o debate when we bring it up for public hearings Chat, you know, I mean, we can modify things even at the -- you know, on the date If 'J'e public hearing. 60 I would assume chat if we reach an zgreement -- MR. MAINGOT. Page 7. MR. MILLER: Page 13. MR. MAIN— Page 7. MR. BANDY. -- with [hem that's to our mutual satisfaction, we _e no[ go'i ng to change the te_ms on them. Now, If we change the terms, [hen, yeah, 1 would say, you k—, [hey would have [he option to either accept or reject, sut. if we pass ehc -- MR. MAINGOT: Second eo the last 1-- MR. .-DY. -- presented ordinance with no modifications as wetcten, then what we need is they need to have signed off on it ahead of came. MR. AMDERSON: secause -- MR. BANDY. Sust like we do with other MR. TAYWR: tJe need to put in there that we ve got ten years Co repeal it. MR. ANDERSON. Because the signed -off thing .s part of this settlement agreement. You will give us this cash. This wi'il be the ordinance that we will pass. This is, you know, how we _e going [o do everything. Both parties sign it and say, yes. That i 61 the acceptance. And ff the City were to renege and we decide we re changing everyehi ng, chen they could say: Hey, that's not what we agreed to, that's not what we signed on. That's their protection. MR. Ta 1— 'Bell, but the other good point MR. ANDERSON: I". not - MR. —LOR: -- [he other -- Che other side of Chit, it, more important for a _o eznment al entity Chan it is _or a private corporation is we re bound by law to have public hearings and Cake public input, which could result in -- MR. HUISOy: They're not. MR. -YLOR: -- for whatever reasons modificaC ions of it and 1 think it', probably proper not to -- Che acceptance of the ag reemene and the proposed ordinance rs the set element is conditioned upon passing it at a public hearing. MR. MILL— Right. MR. T—OR: Because otherwise you're almost contracting away - - MR. MILLER: And it could change -- MR. —OR: - the right - the right to a public -- 62 MR. MILLER: -- one, the second reading. MR. TAYLOR: -- hearing of the public. ALI I don't chink we can do that. MR. MILLER. It could change — the second -eaainq ana we-d have m ah,V it down their throat ;s all they're saying. MR. ANDEREON: I and--Ld. MR. TAYLOR: That's a guOd point to add that -L there that all this -- any seetlemene we make is going to be subject - passing this at a public hearing. MR. MAINGOT: Right. MR. BISN➢Y. Exactly. well -- but then - -- like I'm saying, even if we do, it', not a done deal. You know, they can come up and say -- MR. LOVESTRAND: Yeah. Eut Steve makes a good poise there. Even looking at it from their standpoint -- MR. MILLER: Absolutely. MR. LIVESTRAND: -- if we change it tL the second reading -- MR. D LY: Then by don't we do this. MR. LOVESTEAN➢: -- what are they going to rm 63 MR. BUNDY: Why don't they bring somebody in to the public hearinq that i.. authorized to— tothis to verify that and instead of, you know, somebody tha C's going to have co take what we pass back to Raleigh. MR. TAYLOR: Well, I think the proper way to do it would be to nave this agreement. If it" passed without any change at all, they're bound by it MR. LOVRSTRAND: Right. MR. TAYLOR; gut if we change one -- MR. BUNDY. MR. TAYLOR: -- word -- if we change one word of it -- MR. —DY: That's all I'm caring about. MR. TAYLOR: -- Chen they've got so many days zn which to approve i.t. MR. BORDY: exactly. MR. ANDRRSON: That's fine. MR. BUNDY: well, see, and that was my point. If we -- you know, if we agree to it and they agree eo it and we pass it as a9reed to, then they don't need 30 additional days to decide whether they're going to s-_gn it. MR. MILLER. -eah. The only -- bue you must 14 s tfpulate that the only thing -- MR. LOVWTE-D: If not changed. MR. MILLER: -- they have tlme to -- it s only those issues MR. 9WNY: T'nose changes. MR. MILLER: -- of what we changed. Okay. MR. MAINOOT: Council -- City Council change to City Commission in ehe wording there. MR. B Y: I mean, I Chink that -- and that way -- Z mean, because I have a problem with -- if we make -- i. we we_e to make any changes during the public hearings. I mean, somebody may come out from left field during the public hearing and bring up something none of us had even thought about. I mean, you have to give them the opportunity. I cant foresee that happening because I think I've heard everything chat everybody waits to say about it. But it -- I just want it binding. if it s binding -- because ie s b'i nding on us when we pass it. And Chen, you know, then it gives them an additional 30 days as long as we don't change it, it s binding on them. And they don't have 30 days I. accept it. They accept it as passed if there 65 are no changes. No if we -- like Steve says, at s only subject to -- any negotiations at that n nt are subject on-ly to the changes that a_e made. MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR. LO—T—D: And let's change the 30 days they got there co io days; donut you chink? MR. BUNDY: I -- MR. TAYLOR: 10 days to agree? MR. BUNDY: Yeah. MR.—ESTRAND. To agree co changes made at -- during the public hearings. MR. —DY: And then that way it s done. IC s aver. It s -- yeah. I Chink that's another good point. Because if you o e 3o days -- if you g e a lawyer 30 days, he can come - all kinds of things. MR. TAYLOR: -t s called job security. MR. —DY: And as long as we re agreeable to that. sue I just think that that's - what they were saying in the first half contrad_cted what was said in the second half of it. And that just kind of caught my eye. And that's pretty much all 1 have. Like I said, the other things that's not a the things with hi,, "I these ... hae to the things I I think are extremely importantcrafting an .91—it that I know that I could —I with. And -- 1— chit whole 11—R was —I-d about 18 months ago. MR. MILLER: The reason -- I g y., Ifilt --y franchise agreement they have is not wrr[C en thI 1-1. 1 bet you very few If thare - -11— the 1— That's why I really I,li— th I they will 111-1t, 1h, terms If this "--t, it would be foolish noe to. We ve already seen h'y .... foolish ... ... 1- 9 If money. Okay. And Chen all 11 1 "1", ewo more etme. .... up and they offered Okay. S, the fact is they h y bottom on it to —It with. MR —LOR: t1111 and — not —I YII excuse — :or But you may -- you 1-d to I—d— whether you —d to .... their monetary offer .. well. MR. —RY! That was one thing that did —I up, split the difference. 6' MR. MILLER: Like I said -- MR. WINDY: They wane 450. We want 612, MR. MILLER. -- I think ie s probably time to roll ove_ and sell the car. Okay. You can only A., you know, money so far and then all of a sudden you kind oz run out of gas. Okay. Hu[ as _ar as [he language of this contract, i really believe that they will be more open minded to that, if we accept the money part. MR. TAYLOR: EtIl, another Ching let me tell you that they've stated and I know this is true. When they're paying us money or they're changing language, i[ . not just the City of Longwood they're ....ied about. They're worried about -- MR. MILLER: _ m sure. MR. TAY- -- the next city down the MR. MILLER: And have ramifications -- MR. TAYLOR:- Lake Mary or whoever. MR. MILLER: But the language Chat we re asking Eor is not [hat unreasonable. And it shouldn't be chat unreasonable to them. MR. .AYLOR: You don't get any argument out of me on that. MR. MILLER: Well, if it s not that unreasonable, I believe -- optimistically believe they'll ac it, okay, or same of it or pare of it and we re going to have another meeting just like this -- MR. TAYLOR! Except -- MR. MILER. -- and another counteroffer. MR. TAYLOR: -- the only problem with chat is throughout this whole process -- and I Chink a lot If :t is coming from North Carolina and not necessarily these two ladies .—I Calking Co. They've been unreasonable and out of touch with what's going on locally. And I think these ladies are getting direction somewhat from North Carolina. MR. MILLER: Well, perhaps -- MR, TAYLOR! A.nd they're noe really in touch with what's going cn. MR. MILLER: -- we ought to i--t that we not negotrate with eh— two ladies any more and get North Carolina's butt down here and let's get on with it. MR. TAYLOR: Well, they're messengers. I I.— think there'. any -- MR. L—TRANS. - ts. They moved the v_ce 69 president down here was rn union negotiations for the last several months. And Chats why he -- MR. MILLER: Did they ever settle Ch— MR. LOVESTRAND: I don't even know if they have. I think they did. MR. AMDERSON: Theoretically, I guess. MR. —DY. Yeah. The unron negotiators agreed to terms but -- MR. MILLER: Vot Chat it matters. MR. LOVESTR—: Billy Railey (ph) or whaeeve r, he has authority. MR. BUNDY: -- [he unron is scheduled to vote I— week on it. MR. MILLL'R: eo Che bottom line 'is this, gentlemen, even in the union negotiations no matter how bad they started out, ended up being satisfactory for all evidently. And I really believe Chat Chit is going to end up being Che same way in spite of what same of us may think. MR. —RSOM. I have some issues. And th- is Chat we sat an here Cwo weeks ago and said: This is Che final offer. And if you're not prepared for Chit Chen our only course is only course left open is arbitration. 7 C MY concern as, again, as has bse aced, not - so much IhI --y but the r that ehey said we will not —91til- the —,. And that's --h—q that's vitally j,,t t, 11 If yesterday. —t — they 9, to —y today? MR. —M— Well -- MR. LO—T— And .,, Iff,, is MR. —ERSON: — me IV— u, some possibilities, —y— said a !It If things final and changed their minds. They said there was no —y that they would ,Y us franchise f—, until WI signed the And I Court has i—ll—d Chem put in I d,yllt clause, which —y— d,— And I —l—, that the reason that they did that was b—l— If the City If Oviedo, which .,—, even on Florida Power —d— -- years because they were —11— than — And they're .., -- h---il out now and they— got, —t, 85,000 1I or more MR. LOVESTRAND: Oh, no. No. No. MR. DRAGO: 25, 28, something like that. MR. ANDEFSON: I thought chat -- MR. E-0: e.iild out -- no build out could be 80. MR. BDNDY: Build out is -- MR. DRAc0: But right now -- MR. ANDERBON: Okay, MR. DRAGO: -- they're like, you know -- MR. ANDERGON: So you're -- MR. DRAGO: -- high 20s. MR. ANDERSON: -- looking at 20,000 MR. MILLER. Yeah. MR. ARRERSON: -- which is a lot of cash. MR. DRAGO. 41e 11, they have a split system. MR. ANDERBON: well, and they have to deal with that because -- MR. TAYLOR: Oh, do they? FE&L i.s in there, MR. MAINGOT: Right, MR. ANEERSON: -- Oviedo can play Florida Power and say: Hey, Florida Powex & Gight, you— welcome Co come i� —d P Quid, serva,e. _ also believe that reason -- I've heard it 71 said before: Hey, if Gray, Harris negotiated this on behalf of Oviedo, it , got CO be good for us. And I don't buy that for a couple Of reasons. And chat could be -- MR. MILLER: who said Chat? MR.-LERSON: Paul has said ic. I— heard it. said from other people. MR.—EETRANO: Gray, Harris did negotiate -- MR. —RSON: And they did. MR. MILLER. I don't remember anyone saying chat, but g0 ahead. MR.—EREON: And they have said chat as we11. Okay, out tha— a flawed argument for the following reasons. Just as if we tell Richard this is what you're going to do, he's going to go do it even if he doesn't think is s the right thing to do. And I chink Chat the City of Oviedo is so I— up with other issues. Their transportation, where they're going t0 align the roads. MR. MILLER: Their water. MR. ANDEREGN: MGw we re going -- MR. MILLER: They have no water. MR. RNDE'REON: -- move stuff around. They'll P. got that isaue. They're auditing each other's personal finances, you know. MR. MILLER: _t s a zoo. MR. ANDERSON. They—, got a conflict over whether or not the mayor is allowed to oose ma__tal law and all kinds of other scuff, okay. This is the last Ching they need to add to the pile. And I mink I— they honestly looked ae it and cold their attorneys, get it done. Whatever it takes, we re going to sign it. And So I don't believe that they got necessarily what's in their best incerese. As I look through it, I saw a _It of the same things chat Eutch did and Richard did. MR. TAILOR: tith that, though -- MR ANDERSON: Eut I m going back to -- [hev — sa[a a lot of thi.nos. This is our final deal with ft. And I'd like us -- if -- th,— stated It nothing and It— kind of brought [hem up here [indicating] but .—I also been digging ourselves in the hole financially as I—. going through this process. We re getting closes eo an agreement that we like but — that 1-1 compensate us 74 financially forwhat's gone on. And — - MR. MILLER! Why d, you —Y that? MR. ERDE— I —y that III— we have uncertainty .... the $780,000 franchise Chat they— llyIhq I, IppIll, MR, MILLER: But E—yl— d.— W, ahead. MR. AMDUSON: I —d-1—d that. E- we have a --hd— uncertainty there. They're not willing to —1h — fl-1,111 f— that th, courts 111111d t1l, 11 111111t —,Illy, '— 111, srx months. Okay. S, we re not made a hundred E—ll- On eieher If h— cases. There's , lot If .h-h-i.ty. E. I look at us as bti,,q -- and we had to pay tt—Iy'tfl— which they're going t I— 80 90 PeIf P.--ily, So I _ook a[ Che fact that we re seareing in IhE hole fill —Illy, We can hope to 1111k 111, And we re not quite to th, franchise Chat had, but we close. So I 1—k at this .. we aren e yet on even ground to where we were 18 ..— .9- One of the things lhll I chink we th—I --d— —I ...... ...... their opposition p— .... .. having — lly1 clause there don't want _bIdI` exerctse clause buyout lll because . I_ much money I. involved. F. for III that they —Y about how It', I ,i,ky scheme. It horrible. You don't k— h.. expensive ,Zp 7,�h'—'�h'Y"h", they money.f fought t ave to keep , buyout clause .I of h,,,. And only,ft — they— been slapped around in public and ;n court d by III chew different till—, starting to say: Oh, okay. —11 d. —t it takes to get you to sign up agaf n. I— ..d done more research and the last came I spoke to ,, 11 Idilbl� I ...d thing phthe system,system,i had information from -- outside of Florida l—1 the most part or the Ill, that I l—i—ld included OUC, y.. know, which is not even rn our league. IC s nod a _air comFarison at a11. But there's 32 tit— the St— of Florida t— — their electric ly...m d manage 1' in a variety f ways.ways.And f you ll�t looking through qh Fly W-1, I think the other one, Ft. P-- there's abouthandle this very well, not a single one I.yl this is 11—hi, that we —,1 d.t.,. B., thwas a terra ble mistake, we should is not "' gone— I've been going around I. each It tbI', bts and downloading their financial ltlt—tt. that they've p—tId. And t, a ... they're all positive. And KIy west made. 5.7 million transfer .It If their utili, — into the city 9-1-1 I —I. Tl,ty— not . h city. Mount nor., they had a 1 million dollar transfer out. .—t it an lnt erese 1, p—ti— They actually 31 I.b the trucks and they pay the 11 the 111, 111, that 111, out. and , h,y buy I— f... Florida P-- And you d.b, hear complaints about the 111,bllily If z , , .,,— and h— inept the City and they can provide this service. Ea 1. 1n a —11— til—ti— MR. t-ESTR— Did y., check the city 11 by MR. —DERSON Whibl, city i, 1-5 M . LOVESTR— I I.— remember the name, ,11 1--1 It, up by Jacksonville ..—g Florida ower to buy Chem. MR. AN➢ERSON: I haven't seen that. MR. —0; Green Cove Spring,. MR. ANDERSON: I— seen -- okay. MR. LOVESTEAND: Might be. MR. ANDERSON: I saw Green Cove Springs. MR. MILLER: The only thing I would ask you ld MR. MA INGOT. .11 let him contenue - MR. MILLER: Well, I wanted L. ask a pointed question about his re, —ch. When you did this ..search, you gave me a snapshot of this trans_,_. Okay? MR, ANDERSON: Yee. MR. MILLER. The question I would ask is, number one, were they funding the system Currently with a bond issue. Number two, when did they buy it. And how long have ,hey been doing it. Okay. And how much additional cost would it be eo set it all up brand new. MR. ANDERSON: All good questions. Since I can only see the last year or cwo years financial sta[emene s, without going and calling and asking for the back se aeements, wnich s rnteaa to ao -- MR. MSLLER: Um -hum. MR. ANEERSON: -- you don't gee a long -Germ tore of it. However, if there was a negative trend where they 1— gz11ing in [_oublt and getting upset, you would see transfers into the system, which you don't see. Last year was I - _ticularly hard year for all of these ill— because nae oral gas I—— rose aid hit the generating plants and a_most doubled the cose of generation. And if you look at Che F_orida municipal electric agencies website, Cheyl— signed a new series of ag reemencs beeween the member cities tc mat.igatI Chat risk. But even with doubling of generation cost for the Eirst four to sax months If the year, they still ended the year in Che black [o a one because they were able Co —p all the other .,,if an line. assumptions. Because I ve calked to the City If Casselberry and I Calked with their general -- the city manager and their utility person. And they were looking at buying out Che system at 13 7 9 million dollars. And we saw -- I mean, each of uc, I presume has seen it. The numbers work for c hem, Financially this is great. And then suddenly a monkey wrench is thrown in there: ut-oh, ie s going to cost 22 million dollars not 13 minion dollars, now what? 'hey don't have Che final numbers back yet. Actually I should rephrase chat. They don't have the report back yet. But the numbers that are going co be in the report all say it sti11 works. This is a good thin, i also had a discussion with a third party t hae would be -- tnae s proposing eo casselberry to run [heir system. And this wall be an outside group that. has 30 plus years' experience in the industry. They're not neophytes by any means. The system that they managed was in Che C - qua re iSe for reliability nationwide. P Sozida Po we_ it rn the bottom guartilc nationwide. They're trying -- they're actually on the border between third and fourth. So you're e alking with people that understand how to seep a system and how to run it and how [o be efficiene. 8' And their —Ids were eo Cassel6erry, do you ..d the —1y Co buy it, We'll gi— you — money. We'd be happy t, run ehe system f., you. what kind If . rebate would your --- like? Would e f— pe—nt rebate 11 their bills be acceptable L. y How much rtwneY I—e the City —It out of hit? And Chen we'll figure out the 1-1 If the pie and make it happen. And then their manager said: But what about the ilk? What happens if the,,,, I big storm that C-1-1 th—gh, b1lh, blIh, It — I 1—p he —I, that over and over. And he gentleman said: If you've d.— your maintenance properly, the, , It— -- l problem. And be cited specific instances If specific storms where he said If you go in there and Y.—I planned your ey.— p,Ip,,Iy and y,,',, done the .lilt,lllle on the system P—PIlly, which it an ibp.11— key felt,,, thee ehe downtime is And he had . —le bunch If technical stuff that he iti— — not I het ... saying. But it P'I-Itla Itt P1T, Ct'y with [he - flaky employees, which I don't think it --It. 81 Because if y.. look It the service that our police and fi,. q—, 1— tip notch. It y.. 1.tk at our --tl' IYII— we 9.t a good .1-1 system. �ve 'Y'i .. . .... the tap I've got water. Andh 11 yet t. 1h., —11, you know, failed ouz we y,. k—, — bad -- to co the system Dr d,ffl,l,., Ih-1, like th— so hgOO6 employees. — you take that off the — employees.t'bl, let p—E—i-1, run the It— cone race. And they'll provide a ll- one h.—ld ,— turnkey system. And he Ilyl; DI you —t you, 1.9, on the "U:,: done caor do you re. '"'?dy ...... .... .. th e Out C Iii—lJ to it, Ihl,l'l . 1.1 f variables Ihltl, . I., of tI.If I— would have b. —Ild d.— eat it, I—y intllllting and —y itl—q, —p—ally when you Ii.k at the City if w.nter Pi— And they're a Illy we —1.g.d .11y. And they— decided this is .4..e we re going b—l—, this —11 — t. And you IiCk at the City f C——and d they're , 9,.d and well -managed city, ..d they've i— tl— is .h— we —.1d —d. this I. 9—i.9 back Co the original thing on lh, 1,11t, "t.th— —d— Florida Power said: Take it as 1s or l—, it, Okay. And It the 11 g, we said this I. our final offer. That we— going Co negotiate what Richard said and these are the dollar N.., I'd be willing to meet them halfway on their current d,,11— fig—, and possibly —. accept what they've put 11 11, 1-- 1 don't think we should, but I'd be willingco to !" due — not willing - t,k, it or leave it on the proposedfranchise.There'stoomuch stuff in h— lId". 111 1. Florida —1— 1-1 and — vn ... f—'. Th.— 1hi.9d — I. b, changed. And I. tying in finally with what th.y— said a lot things are non-negoei abl e, we'll never agree Co I,, I —ld Ig—I I. I franchise for period If — years. —.1— that d.— I 11I .f things for you. It d— not lock you in td what could be I — —1. If you decide, y.0 know, someIf these things working For — itl— Nell, they said ttit btl— they would give us I — year; did— hdy? MR. —ERE— With— I buyout. MR. MILLER: Oh, yeah. I kh., without d MR. P—E-- Ed— Now -- but h... out. IE there's a future technology that completely industry, you could swap in Cen years and say: This cs a Etter company we want Ch;s company ll provide E.— to — Just like , have the opportunity F dealing with the Crash Y., kd,R what, this current ... company i, not —kid, — .d Co Ld' to Find . —1—.. maintenance It Florida P1.11 il I Problem. winter Park has ldlhli—d this. Their I-- is I-1 d— there. our --ild 1. mostly I—PlIbIl, but to ld 1 -- I had I with Sophia ,hltd I 1d, her -- she Baas me you might have noticed that you 111t p-11, Y11- I did lose power. And I told her that I have t. — my --- off of batteries. And I had to g. .d d—h— $151 t. 9. R.Y I bigger battery pack, 10 1 84 keep my stuff up and running because my stuff keeps shutting down on me —v ytime my power goes out. And I get my power tweaked once o_ twice a day with the lights doing stuff. And she said: Boy, Chat sounds like you've 9oC a problem in your neighborhood. I'll have somebody call you. I ve never gotten a phone call from that. And I tell you this, it a c y Commissioner who is in negotiations with them saying ere we going Co buy your system, are we going eo sign a contract or hoe, if a city Commissioner can C get good servrce Erom them -- MR. MILLER: Kind of like the trash company. MR. ANDERSON: Well, yeah. But where does that leave us. MR. MILLER: _ ve stuck up For Chem forever and look what -- trey threw my crash everywhere. Thae's pretty stupid. MR. AND£ESON: And we have a letter from a cieazen when they're doing a remodel on their u hose. Their el ec.rician said we reed more service to the house. The current amperage coming Co the house is not sufficient. The wires axe noe sufficient. we need Co fix this. And Florida Power said: No. And what r happens, two months later the house almost burnsS down because of that decision. MR. MAINGOT: Two weeks a -ter -- MR. ANDERS— Two weeks. MR. MAZNGOT: Jimmy Ruka [phl. MR. AND ER SON: I also have another story of Mark MCC1 uran [ph] who had built a new house and he's having problems wieh his electricity. And their electrician said: we need this much service to come into the house. And they said: No. And now after all, you know, that's gone on, he's had all kind cf problems. They f_nally x'elented and decided, you knew what, I think we re going to have to rip up the cables ehae we put an three months ago and put in better cables. Nadine's neighborhood, they were having all kinds o£ problems there. And they decided to get Nadine off of their backs-- which I don't blame them -- they were going to rewire -- en — neighborhood. So they dig a trench. They put the two-inch PVC PiW1 down ththeresii that thI66 11 string cables 111111h the Pip, and protect ehe cables. What do they do next., They throw the cables in It, h— and b—fill It. And she said: Will a -Ithd. Why did you p- the PVC pip, . thereif you're not 9-9 to put the cablesin there? Oh, that's f., — 1—t time. That's the kind of service t— we getting. And lh-1 the Wild 11 1-11 that it going to become increasingly apparent t, 11 over the Y1111 And Chat why I chink, y., know what, put a ten-year time period on this. B,y — time. W-1 sign up and we'll give you t— Y-1h 11 P-1. to 1h that you're�q _q to give us [he service lhat you — ti d, ",:: going .. give you ten years .. please , t , If LW..d. A.d if y,,',, d.ihg :h),"' top-notch job, which they have I.— and repeatedly said: Y- —1d never provide service this good. You could ..... 1, this job. Prove It I. us. Prove t. — that y.. are .—thy If serving the citizens in doing the job. And if y.1— doing the job, is it 9 to b, I.Iy? If there's no P-1— I. 'I., Ih I' going to be easy for anybody to drum u_ and say, el Id need to buy Chin thing. Because they're doing such a great job, but we need to buy it. No. So they have nothing to fear if they're doing their job and doing it well. I- they're not, they nave a lot to fear. And that s -- MR. LO—TRAND: I think I,'. a deal killer, MR. ANDEREON: You know what, so rs the fact that they're x'efusiny eo negotiate Che franchise. That's a deal killer. The fact that they've belligerently refused over and over again. And where we are 18 months later, and they're saying, you know what, we might -- MR, MILLER. 3u1 I donut think we have Che final word on that, Dan. You know this thing has changed so many tines, you know. MR. ANDERSON: Hut that's my proposal Chat you put a ten-year franchise period on that. MR. TAYLOR: .end I would probably agree with comm_ss>oner Lovestrand that that probably would be a deal killer, but then on the other hand -- and I'm not - a y said, I'll do anything, go any direction you all direct me to go, but 1 know you've done thorough research and it indicates 88 that tht—t millions dollars of profit tob, made out there, why would you t— ., t, go t. ten y— without F—th', exploring the possibility and P-1 't—ly when the City Longwood has -- d-- have like L— Mary, doesn't have that —lid., if office buildings and M-1- Y., don't have Alt—.- Springs, Altamonte Mall. You don't have the —11—d —t— that Maitland has. it', m attempt at being ---- and of saying I said at the beginning, if you gave — the — franchise Chat was 11 the table that was the last 11-y... franchise, .. could sign that tonight and they said: N. —, And now thlY— P.1 — nn a p—ii., where I believe that we behind where we —1-d fr.m both fi--Ily and werenot y- there on franchise. So the City is behind .. — thing co accept the fact ChaC not everything else is 89 perfect. That I htl—1 been made whole financially. The fact Chat you want the City to drop all legal challenges against Florida Power and yet Florida Pcwer will not drop their legal challenges against the City. They could if Chey wanted to drop the challenge against Che $960,000. They've ins>st ed that [hey will not. Okay. MR. MILLER: And they could have saved themself 300,000 by doing so, Couldn't they? MR.—ERSON: Yes. They could. But they've not been willing to do Cha, so if I have co accept an agreement where I'm no[ made whole -Cnaneially and ch 1— a lot of uncertainty as Co whether or not I might be made whole in the Euture and I have to accept a franchise that's noe entirely eo my liking and puts us behind where we used to be, we re supposed to progress, not go back. And they wont drop the legal challenges against ehe City. Then I look at it and say: There's got Co be something else in there for me besides my tail between my legs. Md so I Chink if you say, all right, we'll accept Chit on a ten-year basis. And we can arop -- MR. MILLER: Accept —t? — TIRIERION: W, will accept MR. MILL— This franchise as it, tt on ten years or [his franchise as we ve done all 1h- other tl,ff, MR. MDERRON! W, need co modify —Ad— —d the -- there are . f— things in h1l, that we calked lb— tonight that — be dealt with I Chink. —Y. Th—I j— prudent. H.—II, drop the $380,000. —t pay me W attorney. it .... y .. .... ... give .. .. o give me a [en -year franchise. MR. MA NIOTz Ten-year rolling option, —,.h —dil—, that if —11— I-i—l-ly 1—lit, — 1,NDERS— No. J-1 a ten-year franchise, tllg.t the settlement M—Y. —t pay me the is in attorney', f..s and give ii, this thing modified per Richard and b111 and forth with Florida P.— I little bit on it, And drop the —y. Give me that. P—, that you — worthy of keeping up it your 11— that you said R. a one they re all 9I making money. Did you check the City of Lakeland? MR. ADDERSON: Yes. I did. MR. LOVESTR D Did they make money in 2002? Because they loll money in 2111. And I know for [he first six months of 2002 -- MR. ANDERSON: They didn't 1— MR. LOVESTRAND: -- [hey were .n trouble. MR. MAINGOT: They had a problem with their generating equipment. MR. ANDERSON: No. They did no[ lose mOrsy in 2001 because I looked at their financial statements. They uere still able tG transfer 12 million from the utility into the city general fund in the 2001 financial reports [hat you can download on -- ac1ua11y I didn't download that one Gn line. I called their city manager and I said: I wane your financial se atements from last year. MR. MILLER: sut the fact that -- MR. MAINGOT: Inspire of having -- MR. MILLER, -- they transferred -- MR. MAING -- generator problems. MR. LOVESTRANO: That doesn't mean it lost m0 iey. MR. MILLER. It doe 1 mean a thing. Okay. The fact -- [t depends on how they set up [o pay for this thing. 92 MR. MAINGOT: Eut how could they make a contribution to [he city if they lost money? MR. M_LLER: Mell, Che utility -- MR. TAYLOR: Went and borrowed the money. MR. MILLER: -- fund may no[ -- MR, LOVESTRANO. Reserve. -- MR. MILLER. -- be a dedicated fund there, o knows. MR. LOVESTRALD: The paper said Choy lost in 2001. MR. DRAGO: IC i.. MR. MAINGOT. What did y— say, John? MR, DRAGO: I[ is. All Chose funds are dedicated. MR. ANDERION: All of the fund balances are rd ehe black and are .staying up and they're not going below zero. MR. MAINGOT: And they're dedicated funds. MR. ANDERSON: And they're dedicated -..d.. Add that was after debt t—i ce. 'Th,,t was Eller repairs to the plant. MR. 'LAYLOR: Which was eight million dollars I chink. MR. ANDERSON: Y.I. That was after -- 93 MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. ANDERSON: And that's the other thing. We were cold that the City of Lakeland had to eat this obscene cost of eight million dollars. can u imagine the City of Longwood having to do t hac? well, 8 million dollars d—o't look so bad on a capital plant of Boo million dollars in value. — look ac that and say: Okay. I understand that. Tht— one percent. MR. MILLER: Lunch money. MR.-..RSON: And -- MR. MAINGOT: They have their own generating system. MR. ANDERSON: And they're still servucing [heir debt for the 888 million dollar generation plant. But on top of that debt service, on Cop oI the maintenance, on Cop of eating the increased natural. gas costs, they still were able to stay in the black and eransEer 1— mi ll.i on dollars eo tfieir general fund. And that to me doesn't look like a boondoggle. Now, where they did lose some money if you look at it - ehly made a poor decision that they -- going to try to duplicate a natural gas system chat another company -- I. chink is s 99 _eco People's Gas 1s servicing the Lakeland area. And Lakeland decided chac they we rent going to -- they wanted the syse em, but they weren t going to try to condemn it. So they're just going ec start building their o I. pipes. They— eaten a lot of money at chat. eut that's an unrelated decision co me. If you look you look at the electric utility, Yes, it looks very good. And even after the money they lost on the 11. MAI1— Therein comes the difficulty in C erms of really evaluating our options, which I .said earlier on. Right. I mean, looking down the pike to the futvre of this City, the opportunities we have for additional generating of revenues --- .R. B=Y. There is - City would be to purchase the electric ytl. and move I. and .,-- it to some fashion. Either having somebody Ip-- it 99,9 P111- and the City only has . pi— If paper In- says that we actually operate it or own it. Eithl, that or same —11 combination. 1 truly believe It... that that 1111d b, the 111t thing for the City —l— I— t— I 1—k It the —1, hi. —y more y—, are we 1-9 - have to — R 90 percent ... �%like,premium. �2percent '—0 know, ... I'— liability insuranc_ hik. I asc year. - had -- MR. LOVEST— W— till you cake I. the --I ... liy. MR. hCDECCONz It was bl—I 20 and 30 p, h h � h:,:,,Ip. �th medical premiums this year after the o7lylast Y-1 11 the 10 P111-1 proposed t I, Chen ne ih-d back. eut we re f—.9 those things. MR. MAI—T! lt—h—d 1.911, overall .pt-t—, -- ANDERSON: I d. — the .1-11 —Ita,l costs cn the City r—ing year after year —Pi- - onto unlesshIldt. things. And I I. end up with significant —,,i_ht 'Id—Illp—t— which I chink we laid the P1... for and we re hIP-9 —I th ... gh 96 I'd I think we'll do okay there. You do have Co look out 20 years from now and say: Where am I going Co qet the fi . nances for this City? We do want tc keep the Relage rates low. I Chink it actually was - it may not have been Bartow -- I got Co fiq— out which city it was. Their mf loge rate is .069 because everything is paid for out of that electric utility. Arid that's pretty impressive. MR. MAINGOT: What is the number of people living in Bartow? MR. MILLER: Not many. MR. MAINGOT. About 9,000; right? MR. ANDERSON. Something like that. MR. MAINGOT. And we re 14. MR. ANDERSON: So you're looking it not too MR. —IT Ana Gainesville as I said lase time, transferred in 1E million dollars. MR. MILLER: But that's Gainesville. MR. ANDERSON: We re a bigger city. MR. MILLER: tou can t even compare it. MR. MAINGOT: Just a second. They're 90,000 people. MR. MILLER: Bartow is a better comparison to vs than Gainesville. MR. MAINGOT. Yeah. I Iust saying -- MR. ANDERSON: And that's what I Cried to do >s [o find ccLies -- MR. MILLER. Mount Dora is a better comparison to us. MR. ANDERSON: Correct. MR. MILLER. And Gainesville and Lakeland another MR. ANDERSON: So going back to I do believe that this is the best decision for the future MR. ANDEREON: Certainly not an easy path. 9uL once ie s set up and running I Chink it will be much easrer. But in the interest of not totally throwing a monkey wrench into everything and saying forget it I m not voting for this, i m willing to go and negotiate on this. Eue I think that 'I would bE remiss to sign up for N years of Cake it or leave i�. We have to F.ave something. So you Eicher s ignificancly sweeten the pot in some fashion ox it" not going to work It, And the ehings that I have issues wieh, if the City I-- up --y to do undergrounding If utilities, Florida P1.11 takes ownership If them. And — It the termination If the io-- I- I, go III we look It stranded 11— and all the other stuff, they ..y: Oh, y.0 k— what, these are better I111t, than the stuff up on the poles, you —d to pay - more for that. I have I P—b— I—., you It— ! have I -robl— wieh the Illk If —i--- they— doing in the City. I Ihml, that we— 9.119 eo —11 -- tI —p-11 all If this to them; light? MR. —MRSON: I think that we re g.119 eo hear .... about the lack of --11-- in the —i., I-- —Y. There are I — If It—s with h— —y- 11-1-9 that I have p—It— with. And I. Yo. either, you 111, 11 something 111, we re going t. start it —City — d:,gtdilg III ,,, at "' I— - the Ci t y over 15- Y— — IId. ThrowI I. something like that. 01 lhme - ---g like I11 9-1 y.. I 1—y— f I — something because 11 It tl—t now it's take it o1 leave it with you still in the hole. That's not acceptable to the City. MR. MAINGOT: That point that you made -- if I may inCe rj ect - with regard to to case o_ an emergency? Right now cn Noxch Carolina, right, FEMA covers 87.5 percent of the rehabilitation _osis. The city has to provide the 12.5 percent. The same Ching happened down in South Florida. MR. MILLER: The utility has to provide. MR. MAINGOT: Sorry, the ue ility, right. And it _s my 'indexstanding chat they in actual fact as during the course of operations and annual budgets, they escrow that amount. [Whereupon, John Orago leaves the meeting oom.] MR. MAINGOT. It - always set aside in ehe event that something happens; light. So 8?.5 percent is covered by FEMA. And, gentlemen, you're free to go out and check It out. And chat actually happened. [Whereupon, Sohn Orago ze turns Co the meeting MR. MAZNGOT: So, as I said earlier on, the easres[ Ching to do is just now to go along and to accept and say: Look, let's take this pig off of ... back. — more difficult. th-9 to do i, as I and — has for 111 It, research y,,',, done PI.— a point. That sometimes we are .11.d upon to make very difficult.very difficult i1 1— decisions. And d1lilill, IhIl PlIPI, might find 111d 11 accept ... " ' 1 ' I" proper knowledge t—" givenI d'iCo I— - I-- If what are : I—Ii.9 with and what ..ally 1i.s ahead for — in th— BIt 11IIythI1g points III you -y to them, how are 9-9 to ply for these i—I—Ild —t.. --- y., ad valorem. I-- y... I—ti— ,I y... property. Where is th, money going Co I— from. And you said 20 years. I think IG to 15 yl... I— the p— we going to up — it, tight. So where are we 9-9 Co have th, funds if we I, not have an alterative —111,? And from everything Chat has been said by your research III by limited infonnetion —b 9- b-1— I haven't had, y.. know, the wherewithal, like you have had in -1— of —.9 the research and scuff 1,kl thi,, —, the time. and .1— by the — flIt that Florida P-11 continues on with their --d—, ItIlLity lh— is an —fll I., of —, to b, — — the system. And, If course, they will continue on Co, y,. 1111 out IhIl and..... tactics, , ., —1 1.1— these d. MR 'OVESTRAND: I 1.11d chink chat — city 1-- are, you k-, some of the same thing. MR. MILLER: I— they .— MR. LO—TEAND: It's j— two diff—,.d opinions. can 1111 t1l, scare tactics and 11 forth. MR. MAINGOT; it lb—t time we p., I-- honest iniorma[aon, not --di, inf oxmacion. And that's —u we ve attempted I. — ME. —.Ed..: We —t h— Florida P.— came Co us with this. The City decided this. we did not t— about the scare t It— of Florida P-1 11 the risky p-pt—, .f lilhl* Tll— "I", MR. AND2RION: - i, bold face and all the other —11. — MAI.I.T: -,ht. loz MR. ANEERSON: Our letter said this is what ehey offered, this was our response, this was their offer, this was our response. This is where we _e at. IC did not make any judgment calls as I. the actions of either party, which I think was MR. MAINGOT: Tha['s right. MR. ANDERSON: The letter let the reader make up their — judgment call. But it did establish ehe facts. MR. MAINGOT. Right. MR. LOVES'i'RANO: I'd like to comment. The letter I thought was very one-sided just as [heirs are. II was just another side of the equation. we can make ten percenc utility fee and s_x percent franchise fee with no risk and no And the fact that [his Commission decides t0 g0 On, if they decide to go on, it looks to me like that's the decision, I— may not be the end of all. There are the people out there and there was an etfort in Casselberry to bring a re erendum to s[op it. It could be the same thing in Longwood. You may have to answer to the o ople before arbitrae ion. e You know I know the administrator and the I attorney have sale you need to go to arbitration first to establish cost before you go to the people, eut that's after spending another -- if There ar _eople in lows who would like Co s Cop it now and an effort maybe undt—as we calk, to put. it to the people before you want to or before the timing might be perfect. settle, but iC s beyond me. I only have one vote here and it looks like I m outvoted. I don'[ see i. 11 ghat easy or that profitable ae all. MR. LOVESTR—z We — 9o1 a lot of convincing to it. and there are others in town. who'd like to convince the other way. Elor'ida Power I heard had, like, too volun[ee rs in Casselberry getting signatures. MR.—RERsoN. we11, what I would Suggest to you, I have yet to see a list of municipally owned and dug a hole and comprised the city to=. What I did see during the fiasco in California two surmers ago, when the Pacifi, Gas & E-11iC had to declare bankrupecy, when Sou[herl California Edison had to borrow eight billion dollars and almost went into bankrupecy themselves, they actually had Co end up selling off almost all of their business assets co keep a small part of the company alive. San Diego Gas k Electric did the same thing. they had to borrow 3.6 billion dollars and had all this problem. MR. MILLER: 3uC deregul aC ion brought that MR. EOVESTRAND: And it could happen here. MR. MDERSON: Partially so. MR. MILLER. It did, okay. MR. ANDERSON: There is a lot of truth Co Chat. But as you will look at during that entire storm chat. happened out there, IA Municipal 111'r -- Utility Dist r.ict -- they Ed, like six or seven letters in their acronym. But the is city -owned municipal district did not have a problem. And the ocher municipalities throughout California that owned their systems did not have a problem during the same storm Chat Cook —I a Ios t),— b.bib If these .1— A.d as y.. 1— in the St— If Floritla, the it —till in the 11 Glo rich that have owned their —1i— have not had I PlIbl., And so you can say I d.— think it will e easy. I t Wink on.it1h risky id you're entitled i 'l Id 11 that But instead If looking -- — l—ing It it philosophically from L m opposed no matte_ how the finances 1.— 1 am opposed to the gb---t owning and providing I utility --- Th., PI-11. you from 111-9 honestly 11 alone have not had financial difficulties through running th— And if- look It the books year f11the a,, thty t,I.tf,I money out the utility ility it, he thing. It', Chat until the Public Service Commission forced Florida P.— t. It— their thewere.not ..... I lower., theirtheirrthey — MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. —ERR— -- they had —t 1. the high— -- to all if Florida.And it warn IhI S 1-1 R- the thing all scvrred up by _., -Y, ..it . second, OUC has 9- 1-1 106 down here, and FPL is here. And Florida Power is up here. And wb.". going on. And finally the Public —ite Commission. steps rn and says: You must lower your races by nine percent. They force it. And that's when Florida Power sends out the lector talking about. how our rates are competitive with every ocher c icy owned municipality in the state. MR. LOVESTRAND: And they are right now. MR. AN-RSON. They are but -- MR. MAINcoT. Not exactly so. MR. LOVESTRANO. But I Chink they applied to the Public Service Commission and the delay was the Public Service Commission not the order. MR. MAINGOT. But increase -- MR. LOVESTRAND: I Chink you've got that backwards, Dan. The Public Service Commisston didn, force them, they did that on their own. MR. MAINGOT: Oh, no. MR. LOVESTR : Because of -- MR. MAINGOT: No. No. MR. LOVESTRAND: They did it on their own because of the cities that they were trying to sign 'P. MR. TAYLOR: But -- MR. LOVESTRANe. You show me the Public Servvice Cpmmassaon order for that. IC s �n approval o_ their request. MR. MILLER: I uncle rs[ood It was an approval If their request, too. MR. --EN: I understand that. It -- MR. TAYLOR. Under what cvrcumstanI MR. MILLER: They probably saw the handwriting on the wall, there's no question about that. Okay. MR. ANBERSON: Yeah. Because they saw that they have to cony once III of these It ties to 119n up when all the c_tves can look and see the _n_ozmaC von. And that story wasp t just in the t nel, a[ was O+er vn Tampa papers as well. MR. —NGOT: Tribune. MR. AND_RSON. Because they were I—tllilg Teco's sates -- MR. LOVESTRAEDi They all lie. MR. A RSON. But I don't consider Chat to be a highly risky thing. So i m getting back to, if they provide excellene servvice, if they're prov idin9, You know, the business acumen that we could never have It cetera, I'll us a ten-year franchise. IT. Go ahead. MR. BUNDY: I want to respond to a couple of things. Mr. Lovestrand I-- nGt any beeeer at counting votes tonight than you were back :n November. eecause you re satcing there saying you apparently are only one vote and -- you know, we ve decided on this. MR. ANDERSON. eep it business. MR. HUNDY. Well, no. Ne made a _tatement about -- you know, about it may be out of our hands. And that he was --Rd. MR. LOVESTRANC. That'e a real possibility. MR. RUNDY: Rlt i[ s MR. ANUERSON: eep it business. MR. EUNDY: R-at it', - right up until you made that —11 threat as only you can make, I had not made up my mind one way or the ocher. And I still haven't made up my mind. And In all the discussions that I have had here, all the discussions that Commv s s loner Miller, all of [he discussions you had was towards eo neyoeiae my a set Clement. The information that Commissioner Anderson hi-1— was if ehty refused to negotiate in good =ait h, then this is one of the cesses that we need to take. Nobody has said we re moving forward. I pointed you k..., keep pointing out, I this i, t, me vs, you k—, i. -- i— .ffdd—, t. me 10 be told h— — gI41, to vote I. somebody knows — I M 91-9 t. vote or — I 9—g to decide b,f... —I d— — up my mind — — 911.9 t, —I or h— 1'. going to decide ,I I'd. any issue c—'. on the I II111 think that —i I —idd 18 —1h. 19. 1. the — thing 1h., I —It now. What is in the best l.tlllIt If the City? And if if Florida P-1 will indicaee that they are negotiating i. q..d Edith and q—, You know -- and, y., k—, t, tell me chat 1— got t. --it thi. or else. MR. LOVES—D- N. one —d y.. that. MR. —RCON: They did. MR. BUMDY: They 3— did. .M. I chink they are negotiating iI 9.dd faith in all --Y, Butch. MR. MAIN— But. do you represent Florida -1— Ct.l.? MR. MILLER. N., MR. MAINGOT; CQ -Y do y— —I lh.. MR. MILLER. But I think they are negotiati .n good faith. MR. MAINGOT: You appear to be r - setting them. MR. ANDERBON: Let Butch talk. MR. MILLER. - making them out to he a villain. Okay. T'-y— not a villain. They are only a company. MR. ANOERSON: Let Butch talk. MA. —y: I just think that they're not -- you can say they're negotiating but they're not neyotaati ng. They'-e crying once again to dice aee this is it, we will do ehit. 11-1 give you MR. —y: W will give you another few thousand doll— and eh— I all we re going to do. Weil, okay, Chen I m saying that if -- if we re going to make another final offer. I mean, we can go back and forth '.with this then -- you know, they s-anchise agreement modlficat ions. They're going r to give us a little more mo y. Wall, then what I'm saying is if they are going eo give us a little more money, then they need Co accept the franchise agreement that we like. If they're aot going to pay us what we want. Then that's our -- you know, should be what our terms are. we need a franchise agreement chat we like. Whether Florida Power likes it. I could referendum in Longwood, let them fund a referendum. I don't care. You know, I have s-tad, you know, all along, all I wanted was what we had always had. If they want to, I'll go right back out there on the dais at the next commnssnon meeting sad offer to sign the franchise a9 reemenc that expired a year -and -a -half ago. And if they will do that and if they make us whole. And make us whole means give us all the money they've cost us Ivey the last year-and-1- half. Because right now they have decided that they will give us what we wanted originally. They ought -- the whole sticking point we negotiated with them on several occasions and it always cut to the chase that the deal breaker was the izz purchase option. Well, now, they're willing to give us a rchase option. Well, okay. Why are they not wf llinq to also make us whole? It wa.. their decision. So if they're willing to make us whole, nay all of our expenses, wa can sign the franchise agreement from a year-ano-a-half ago, [he old one that just expired. MR. —LOR. You re right on that. Because as far as making you whole, you still stand whether you sign a zranchise or not Co lose a million dollars. MR. BUNBY: That's right. MR. LoveSTR-D I'd like to address that. MR.—ERSON: Okay. MR, LOVEIT—: Because we ve had confident speaking from Richard and from -- as he has said ce from the a[Co_neys Gray, Harris, that we re very confident, we re going Co get those franchise fees back. So z look at the deal that we were Calking about as being $450,000 ahead. Okay. That's what they're offering in cash. MR. TlYLOR. No guarantees. No gua rang ees. MR. LOVESTRAN➢: But there's 11 guarantees; P. i ol 113 ri9he. And i thought we were coming to a place of agreement because I chink -- I stall believe that Florida Power will negotiate some of these terms. MR. MILLER: I do, too. MR. LOVESTEAND: Eut when Dan came forth with a ten-year only agreement, a franchise, I think that's the deal - that's the deal breaker right there. And i m saying -- MR. —DY: Hut we b—th't said that's -- MR. LOVESTEAND: -- matter of f—ly -- MR. RRNDY: -- a deal breaker to It. MR. LOVESTR-0; I'm 11y119 matter of factly chat that's the deal beaker and I see it going down the tubes. And 1 see it going to the community and that's just matter of factly that's what I set. I don't Chink Dan wanes to settle now. xe s decided he'd rather buy, so I'll throw in the deal breaker and the deal breaker is the to -y r deal. That's a deal breaker, Dan. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. And you can look at it another way, too. That by a five -to -zero vote, this commission ath in this very room two weeks ago said this is the final offer, take it or Leave MR.—MRSON. This leaves us with arbitration or Chi. offer. And now ... being told, oh, you know, what final offer, didn't mean final offer because we re going to go back and neyoeiaee some mo_e. MR. LOVESTRAMD Sure. I looked at that as a good did negotiating tool. And I chink Steve a great deal. MR. ANOERSON: And I looked at it as ii— comnitssroners said: This is our offer. MR. EONOY. You didn't say that last ttme, Chat Chis was a negotiating cool. MR. —ESTR U: when I heard their counteroffer -- MR.—MRSON: - wait a second. If they want to come back and we told Richard and he put rt in ene letter because I read she letter, this rs the Commissions final offer. They came back and said: We re not accepting tC. Okay. So where does Chat leave u.. Ra re either 9oin9 to sefck our tail between our legs and sey: Okay. we give. And well take I ess, or we can put ene ten-year shiny in there and have eh— balk on the ten years and say, okay, but we'll give you everything else. And will they do ehae? I might Cake that. 3ut frankly they have said over and over again, we'll never do this. well never do th1., we'll never do Chi.. And everyC ime it s been putting the City at a [hat when [hey finally came back and four of [he Commissioners here said: You give us the previous franchise, — 11 sign it. Ism on the record MR. MILLER: yes. Absolutely. MR. ANOERSON: Okay. So [hey finally came back and they said: We'll give you a buyout clause, with all poison attached behind it. —a— you look through Chis ordinance and they se[ things up all in their Lavor. If 'a— going to give you [hat buyout clause, we re going to make :t so impalpaile that you Could never do MR. —LOR. E—Itly. MR, ANGERSON. And attach all kinds of other scuff in here. No. Give me the original on_ that just say, at the end of 30 years, we have [he right Co go to arbicraeion. Not Co spell out, r 116 you've got this many days, this or Chat. All kinds of stuff in there it you don't do Chi. exactly right, you lase your options. They're complicating it purposely -- MR. MILLER: -- MR. ANDEREON: -- Co make it unpalacable. And -- MR. TAYLOR: Unworkable. MR. ANDERSON: -11 -- MR. TAYLOR: You could never effectively ex—t—, you_ option. MR. ANDERSON: You couldn't because if you had to do a referendum and you had w line up financing, which presumably you're going to do unless you've really set aside a Iot of cash, a whole bunch of stuff like [hat. It takes more tame Chan they've put in here. And I think they've done Chat purposely. MR. MILLER: Well, I don't chink there's any doubt that Chat'. _rue. Okay. Hut you see I m different than some of you guys. I don't hold a grudge against Chem because they're doing that. Okay I really don't. ':hey are -- MR. ANDEREON: Fair enough. MR. MILLER: -- negotiating in. good faith. MR. —GOT: 'That's where 'I differ with you' MR. MILLER: Well, I m telling you -- MR. MAINGOT: Holding a grudge, no, but 1e9ot11te in good faith -- MR. MILLER: -- I know that you disagree, John. But that's because yov have a rer[atn amount if open hostility cowards this corporation, which I don't have. That's the only point that we differ on. Okay. The fact is those people are only neyoei acing from their s[andpoi nt in good fa+_th from their corporate life. Th.— all lhey're —- MR. TAYLOR- I— kind of Iike Ell— negoti a[:n9 to sell a Honda Accord, you know. MR. MILLER. That's a fact. You know haw many tames people sic there and te11 me -- tic's done it before, he had to negotiate wish me before. he had to do it right there across the ehing from me. Yoi know how many trmes, that's my final offer. That's my final offer. MR. NA INGOT: He walks out of the place and you go after him. MR. MILLER: Well, you know what, if = yot angry e 71ime somebody cold me that was their final Offer, I'd -- sell a car. The fact is that this should not be -- we should no[ in..exj ece personal hostility into this negotiation because quite honestly it doe , get us anywhere. MR. MAIN— Excuse me, I take e ception to Chat comment because you're pointing that to me. MR. MILLER: No. I m not. I m talking about -- I'm talking about any of us. MR. MAINGOT: And I'm not. MR. MILLER: Gka MR. ANO .1— Just 1- it go. MR. MILLER: .And I'm talking about Paul, too. okay. Not just Jo:'rn, okay. MR. ANDS I— Correct. MR. MILLER: Really let's move P.sward and no[ go backward, okay, vs all S m asking. Okay. I. would like to take Dan s point, okay, about a ten- year and let's just say we go with a ..v o-prong negotiation with Richard. Okay. A ten-year with no money and the cnanges. MR. ANDERSON. There you go. MR. MILLER: Okay. Or perhaps ehe 3o-year with all the changes and more money. Do you want what I'm saying? MR. AN➢Et— Fair enough. MR. MILLER: ➢o you wane what I m saying? I think -- at a P-1 now —11 - need to have the d— breaker, b, ehc deal breaker. MR. MILLER: - y.. — what 11. --g? OR., In other words, d, t, cut our .— oif L. despite our f, i mean, I'm still at the PlIlt lhIlt I —'t —t to buy this utility bt-- I really believe --, going I. be — .—y people — there fighting aq.ilIt it. This happened .— before in this City, and there was — —h — —11 going on out '],-- You There are people i,� this City who make this thing look so bad, you j— wouldn't lt-- it. — lh-- a — - and the —, doesn't cl..r it, y-- Okay. B-111 this City is very politically MR. MILLER: E,El — telling you, I— .— so many Ciey Commissioners --Id in little things like this before, bond issues they got 'roomed in . minute. 120 Okay. The next election, thae's it. Poof. They were all swept out of oEf lt, And the next people came in and nobody ever forgave anybody and the Commission wan fascsali—d Eor yearn. Ana wnae a d.iaaeter it wan. MR. ANDERSON: Um -hum. MR. MILLER: Okay. The fact .remains that we can negotiate just like I safd. I still think we have legal room here with Florida Power, t spice of their comment It,— how they would not negotiate this contract. I don't believe that Eor a minute. I really don't. I think we ve got wiggle room. And I Chink we need to approach it on a two -prong -- MR. ANOERSON. Okay. SO -- Steve -- MR. ANDERSON: -- one -- the foundation needs t0 be that the wards in here do need to be negotiated. MR. MILLER: Abeo lately. No question. MR. ANDERSON: Eie her paen we go, Chose have 10 be negotiated. MR. =LOR. .es. MR. MILLER:^hays exactly right. MR.—ESTRAND: Tne ones that Butch brought m MR. MILLER: That's exactly right. MR. LOVEBTRAND: - were important. MR. MILLER: And I agree with every single Ili.t that he brought up. Okay. MR. ANOERSON: And the ones that we asked for last time Chat were 1n Richard's letter, that these ueed to be addressed. MR. MILLER: Now, some of the petty stuff that Richard brought up, not necessarily. MR. BUNDY: well, 1 think even. then he knew last time Chat some of those were -- MR. MILLER: Sure. MR. BUNDY: -- you throw them out. MR. MILLER: You cau throw them by the wayside. MR. ANDERSON: That's E.I.o MR_ MILLER. But the ma-,, points -- MR. ANDERSON: eut then path A is you give us ene money -- MR. BUNDY: Those changes. MR. ANDERSON: -- chat we asked for last tame. And - MR. MILLER. And the changes. MR. ANDERSON. Yeah. The changes is -- 122 MR. MILLER: And yet the 3, MR. VDERSDN: 30 and the money from last MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR. AMDERSON: -- ie 0_ntion A. MR. MILLER: Then -- MR. ANDERSON: And Option B to no money -- MR. TAYLOR: So that doesn't change. MR. AMDERSON: -- en ten years. — MILLER. BIt see here's the thing, then -- MR. TAYLOR: That's the same offer a Iast MR. MILLER. -- if they do Chat, then we are made whole. MR. ANDERSON: These you go. MR. MILLER. AC this point, we re nos made whole. Okay. MR, AMR-- There you go. MR. MILLER: That's all. MR. TAYLOR. All we re doing ie giving Chem another option B, really in keepinq A alive. MR. MILLER: That's all. MR.—EREON: Option B, forges the money -- MR. MILLER. Okay. -- giving Chem Option lz2 e and that is forget ehe 300,000 bucks, reimburse the atto_ney's Eees correctly to dace, —th is what led, no now, right? MR. —LOR: ]Nods head affirmatively] MR. MILLER: Okay. Keep your money i. you - pocket and give us a ten -yeas franchise agree..... What d0 you think? MR. I —IT: I'll 90 along with that. MR. AMDERSON: I would It along with that with the sake o£ going along. MR. MILLER: ARE.I. .ly. MR. MAI 1— But in terms It -- MR. —SON: Because one important £act chat has needed to be said for a Song ti—, This issue of the elect-.ic system and the franchise has begun Co tear this commrssron apare. And it s begun to point people at each other. MR. MILLER. I don't believe that. MR. ANDERSON. It s begun -- MR. MILLER: I disagree with Chat. MR. AN➢ERSON. -- CO point -- MR. MILLER. _ don't Chink we re put-iing apart. MR. —SON: -- people at each other Co trade little digs here and there. MR. MILLER: Nah. t MR. ANDERSON: And my philosophy is eh;s is but. one of a hundred issues that this Commission 1s goiny to be asked to deal with in ehe next three years. And as such, Z m willing co romprom — on what I think is ehe best policy for the City in this at ea, so that we can contrnoe to agree and work on what's the best policy in the And so while I don't think that this :s necessarily the best thing for the City to sign this, I am willing I. go along with it because I Chink overall in the biggest p1ttuie, it s POr ehe City's best anee rese Co keep a Commission worki nq together on all the other things. MR. MILLER: Now, there's no doubt that the possibility exists Chat we may end up in arbitration. MR. ANDERSON: Um -hum. MR. MILLER: WV may, okay. And you need t0 stress that to them in ehe strongest possible language that the Commission can turn On a dime and go to arbitration if they don't begin. CO see MR. MAINMOT: But we already said 10 last MR. MILLER: I me n, now, a, far a, I m concerned -- and _ think as far as everyone here has agreed, the language in this agreement 1, tncor_ect and it needs to be changed. So they need Co change their mind or that one. They really do. MR. ANOERSON: And that one e _s non- negotiable. MR. MILLER: _ think chat', etched ir. granite around here. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. MR. MAINOOT: But there is a point 1— I've made many times before and some of my ocher colleagues around this cable have made the point, they are not going to make us whole on the backs of the people of the City of Longwood. MR.—MRSON: That's out of our hands, though, John. We ve agreed Chat chat', It to courts higher ehan us that are 9oin9 eo decide where Chat money i3 going to <ome from. MR. MILLER. exactly. The Public Service Commission. MR. —RSON. And we and I believe -- because I agree with you chat chat — not right, that they should take the money from the plop ,12E However, they wan[ to do it but we cant completely control that. And our best ca,e -- well, I just want to Say this: Our best case -- MR. TAYLOR: Okay. And 1 ve got something I want to say. MR. AMR....: -- for controlling chit is our a Ceempc in eh is settlement to say: Give us some cash upfront. That's our way of saying: Ali right, it', not Iight that this going to happen. But we Ie trying our best to take care of the people. MR. TAYLOR: I need to Cake better notes - think when I have _hell conve rs aC ions with Gail Simpson. One of the things she did say during the weeks is chat she wanted something in the agreement saying we couldn't go to the Rublic Sit, ice commi .stun and— against it being -- MR. BLMBY: Tell her blow that smoke up somebody else•s -- up somebody el se•s skirt. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. TAYLOR: So that's another thing. I really should have wrote that down because i know that's a big issue with Y.I. MR. BRADY: But that's it, job co representZl Che people. MR. MILLER: That's noe an issue aC a11. MR. TAYLOR; Huh? MR. ARLEREON: No. It's not. MR. TAYLOR: It is to her. MR. MILLER: I don't care. MR. -EMERGE: R" it s not Co us. MR. MILLER. That doesn't matter. Every private citizen in this entire city -- MR. LOVEETRANO: That's right. MR. MILLER: -- has the right eo qd to the Publi< Service Commission about anything eney want MR. TAYLOR: I think she's speaking you can t stop joe Blow down Che street. But 1 chink you Can t march up there as a City Commission and take a position Che City of Longwood is opposed to it* MR. ANA'MSON. well, you got four MR. MAINOOT. I can speak for myself. I have said Co everyone out there on all ehe doors I Y knocked on, right, that ehe City will noe be made whole on their backs. MR. MILLER: I Chink -- MR. MAINGOT: And put that in black and MR. MILLER: I think your next meeting with Gail Simpson really needs to be -- MR. MAINGOT: And I don't 1--d to back down from that. MR. MILLER: It s trme £or a Come to Jesus meeting with this lady, you know. All that kind of nonsense re nonsense. MR. RRACO: We11, do you want tt with Gail Simpson or somebody else? MR. TAYLOR: Did you want to keep hearing from her and I have nothing against her personally; she's just nice enough to calk to and deal with. MR. MILLER: I understand. MR. TAYLOR: sut, you know, she is a broken _ecord of I think this deal we re offering is already just a wonderful deal. This is a wonderful deal. I wish I had -- if I had a dollar for --ytime she had said that. MR. MAL-RD: well, we can t blame her, she's being paid by the company eo do their best negotiating for them. I MR.-AYLOR: Eight. MR. MAINGOT: Right. It's up eo us, right. MR. BUNOY: John just made a point. MR. —REON: Yes. He did. MR. R.— Oo we want to insist that at least somebody a little further ue the food chain gets involved in this from their standpoint perhaps Billy Railey or somebody. MR. LOVESTRAND: She talks to him. MR. MILLER: Can we -- MR. LOVHSTRANO: He s right over here in Lake Mary. MR, TAY— The only Ching I'd say about that -- MR, ANDERSON: Or Hill Havemeyer. can read this or someone whatever, Gail Simpson -- a[ least when you'_e negotiating with someone -- as I've said she's pleasant enough to calk to even though I don't like her message. I_ ve only met the one guy out here the first time. He rubbed me totally the wrong way. And if that was the best they had le send down from North Carolina, they better go reload. 130 MR. MAIMGOT: He was really ride. MR. TAY— He was rude and, you MR. ANDERSON: But I think the point, Richard, is that if -- I Chink Chats an excellent pofnt YG.— making that this is somebody you can talk to. And that's important. Howeve_, I suspe Ct Chat a lot of the message 15 getting lost in the translation as _t goes back and then comes this way. MR. MILLER: Quite possibly. M.R. ANDERSOM: And so if you could have both of them there or to some way to make sure - make sure that this > _ red on as is above you. This has to gee transmuted intact. Because that's one of our problems is we re no[ negotiating wieh [he people that can mace decisions. The dec.i sion makers never have listened to ehis City Commission. MR, MILLER. And they're not negotiating with the people who make decisions either. MR. —ER— Correct. MR. MAIN — They're just telling them what they went. MR. MILLER. _t. s no different. So I don't hold Chat a9 nst them. 131 MR. LOVESTRAME: She has a cerL atn amount of auchority -- MR. -SON: No. Not against Chem as inaivianals. MR. LOVESTEAND: -- when she knows what she can accept or reject. MR. ANDERSON: But that's our problem in doing this, 1s that decision makers have never been brought together. MR. MILLER: It's just my opinion but they should have accepted what we laid out last week -- last time. Really that's my opinion. MR. B➢NDY: Well, I think Our decision tonight is to give them a second opportunity to accepc Lhat. MR. MILLER: Well, it's Option e like you said. MR. TAYLOR: Do you want to go double or nothing? MR. MILLER: Okay. We re giving them Option H this t.me, okay. But really, you know, I[ s getting to be a headache now. You know, really cc s came -- [ell her it', eime to roll over and sell ehe cat. MR. ANDERSON; Now, let's clarify. You ve proposed Option A, regardless -- MR. MILLER: Forget [he money. Make [he changes so specified in [he contract. MR. ANDERSON: Wart. Ware. wait. Option MR. MILLER: And give us ten - MR. ANDERSON: Okay. That's Option B. MR. MILLER: -- years. MR. ANDEREON: That's Option e. MR. MILLER: oh, that's option A. Option A was our agreement -- MR. MY— A rs the 612 plus 30 years. MR. MILLER: -- from lase time. MR. LOV_STRAND: Not even some coming down to their price? MR. ANDERSON: Option A is -- MR. LOVESTRAND: I mean, they've come p with -- MR. ANDFRSON: - exactly the same that we ve given Chem. MR. RTRDY: No. We — given them an opportunity to save money in - on B. MR. ANDERSON: That's right. You can either give us the money me asked for last t-me ana we _e going to negotiate the contract. or you can keep your money and give us the een years. eut either way we are negotiating. MR. DR-0. Let me throw out one other Ching MR. DRAGO: that if -- and Chen Richard is going Co have to determine if, this is a legal ehiny or not. But what if the agreement were Co ne made ret_oact.ty_ to May 1st of 2CO2, therefore, the —,000 plus eery month is no longer an issue, to s already fees that are collected and remitted to ehe ci ly. The only oue-o£-pocket costs is the attorney'. fees. MR. DRAGO: And Chen the only other thing in dispute is ehe $171,000. MR. ANDERSON: Will, see, I would -- if that we_e a possibility, I would modify my option, forget the attorney'. fee., if you back date this thing to when it expired that they had to have collected those fees -- MR. MA INGOT: Forget the $180,COC. MR. ANDERSON. -- and we'll make it ten years from today, noc ten years from then. cave them a twelve-year franchise then. MR. DRAGO: Well, it e -- MR. TAYLOR: Are you talking about back 134 dating it May of 2D00 or May a year -and -a -half ago. MR. DRAGo: No. May of 2002. MR. TAYLOR: Right. So we 9et the 462. MR. ANDERSON: That's correct. MR. DRAGO: That's when it s supposed to -- the 462 rs all taken ca_e. The only amount of money that's in dispute is the 7— Now, I don't Chink they would be willing to go back to June MR. TAYLOR: No. MR. DRAGO. Al at least that issue gets narrowed to only 773 p— interest. MR. ANDERSON: And the point there i� that. then we can drop Cie legal challenges Co Chat money. And they don't have to worry about. saving _ace with other ci_ies about -- well, we were illegally collecting this franchise fee and -- MR. DRAGO: Right. but it - MR. ANDERSON: -- you know, h1ah, blah, blah. So we il-- the illegality of collecting -- MR. —NO— — it will still 90 forward to the courtroom for a decision. MR. —LY: Well, I still think you need to collect [he alto tey's fees. 13 MR. ANOERSON: I. they gave us Chis franchise, I'd be willing to drop - MR. ➢ 0: Wtll, hero', what you could do. ➢o the same thing on the ten-year deal, if you want the ten-year deal, and they make it __t roach ve, no attorney, fees. If they want Che 30-Year deal, then: you get the at torney's tees plus the 1etr111—ity. It s Che same -- srmilar s _C uacion ae I-- wanted it. you the 475 and Chen turn around and make it MR. MILLER. For a franchise they would, why MR. DRAGO: Well, the part in the 475 was to recoup some of the III you couldn't get your Bands on. But now that ve have it sn our pocket, i[ , there. MR. TAYLOR: ton know, in my mind antl this hasn't really come p Ild I done want [o make tning, more complicated or more difficult, Che 136 option to purchase and Co go io_ward to purchase it right now as you've heard two se rongly and maybe a third not quite as strong, talk about it s not such a bad thing to do and to give up chat right beyond reimbursing us for franchise fees or It torneys fees, .... worth something. To give up that right in my o- ion, when I chink o_ things of negoeraeing as an attorney, if you want me to give up my right to go down Che street, It's worth something. MR. MILLER: sure. It is. MR. I—LOR: So from that standpoint -- MR. BANDY: Okay That's where the money -- MR. TAYLOR: -- when Steve says -- MR. MILLER: I agree. MR. TAYLOR: -- why should we give up that 460, I agree with him. MR. MILLER: I'm telling you, I don't Chink -- if we re going Co give Chem a 3o-year franchise, 1 personally would like Co see Che whole deal, the money. MR. —RION; Well, that was the ofter Chat we gave them last Came. MR. MILLER: That's exactly the offer we gave them last time only we need to change the language accoveningrdingly,They okay, that we discussed here this e. -- MR. LOVESTRAND: That was to the last offer. MR. MILLER. That's core ect. MR. AMDERSON. Now, Steve, it we -- MR. MILLER. Exactly. MR. ANDERSON: -- modify the 150 -- MR. MILLER: The offer is the same as the East time or we offer Option E. And Option E -- MR. ANDERSON: I wane to clarify that, though. MR. MILLER. Sure. MR. ANDERSON: Is the 150 attorney fee, is Chat now 1. or is that still I — MR. MILLER: _t was 150 last time. MR. ANDERSON: OR.,. That offer stays as MR. MILLER. RI1e it was 160. MR. ANDERSON: That offer Stays exactly as it MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR, TAYLOR: Is it going to 120, what the bill is now. MR. AMDERSON: He says it stays eS it was. MR. MILLER: No. _50. MR. TAYLOR: {Nell, I thought you said 150 a minute ago -- or I80 a little bit ago. MR. LOVESTRAND: He said 180 es what iC actually is .— MR. MILLER: That's what it is now. MR. —DY. In Option e -- MR. LOVESTRANO: 150 was what :t was sn the lase Offer. MR. EUNDY: I think Option B was I— Was all of the attorneys fees. MR. MILLER: We re talking about On on A MR. MAINGOT: Okay. Let s -- MR. MILLER: Option A is the same agreement we had last time. MR. ANDERSON: Exactly ehe same numbers. MR. MILLER: Exactly the same. MR. -INGOT: —6 MR. MILLER: Or we'll give [hem Option H, okay -- MR. ANDERSON: Which should be [he current accorney's fees. MR. MILLER. 180,000- MR. ANDERSON: Okay. No other cash. MR. BUNDY: Ana no other cash. MR. MILLER: No other cash. MR. BUNDY: But a ten -yea- agreement. MR. MILLER: And a ten-year agreement. MR. BUNDY: And the wording changes. MR. MILLER: Nell, of course, that goes without saying. MR. ANDERSON: That's -- MR. BUNDY: In both of Chem. MR. LOVESTRAND: I thought we wer _—B MR. TAYLOR. Nhac about retroactive. MR. DRAGO: Do you want the recroactcv icy, Steve? MR. MAINGOT. I would say - MR. LOVESTRAND: That complicates -- MR. TAYLOR; -n which one. MR. MILL— :t does complicate it. MR. MAIER— In both of Chem. MR. MILLER: - don't know if we should do that. MR. MAINGOT: I -- MR. TAYLOR: If it s possible and I need to look into some of the legalities of chat. MR. ANDERSON: And I Chink he needs eo MR. BANDY. One of the things -- MR. MILLER: I'm not sure you can backdate a contract — months. MR. BURRY: And one of things, too, about making it -- MR. MAINGOT: Why are we saying it can C be done with..[ even trying It'. MR. —OR: I did— say It — MR. MILLER: Well, no. No. I m not saying we re not going to try. MR. MAIMGOT: No. I'm saying -- MR. ANDERSON: One aC a time. MR. M.i LLER: Sure. MR. MAINGOT: -- what Steve is saying. You know, I mean, after all, I mean, we re trying to represent what's best for us, not Florida Power. And if we give -- if we see an option for us Co increase our ability to get some additional funds without having to sweat over it, Sohn's recommendation -- MR, ANDERSON: I would say ons ehfng. You're going to get the most suscess£ul negotiation if both parties win. and so I know that Steve understands chat. MR. MILLER: Oh, yes. No question.. MR. ANDERSON. And in either case that we re offering Chem tonight, the money that we re asking for 11 Option A 1s a pitance compared to what they stand to earn over the 30 years. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. MILLER. Oh, yeah. MR. ANDEREON: Okay. And se ill in Option B, ten years I esti— that, that's probably 30 million bucks or 20 to 30 millions dollars in profit. That's more than enough. MR. MILLER. Or more. MR. MAINGOT: Or more. MR. ANDERSON: And as we learned in the Casselberry arbitration, Casselberry is more tnan double our size. And they were statistically less -- MR. LOVEETE-R: No. No. Not quite. MR. ANDEREON: They were statistically less significant Chan the margin of error in. planning .or Florida power. MR. MAINGOT: One percent. MR. A.NDERSON: Okay. So Florida Power is not scratching their head [Idly saying, III know, that City of Longwood is really booming and growing, we re going 1. have to build more power plants eoE support ehem. We are noe rn thae equation of [heir business moael. MR. MILLER: No. MR. ANDERSON: We are simply in - MR. MR. MAINGOT: Grary. ANDERSON: - the -- a_e we actually going to matnearn .he sys[ein or are we just going to milk it and that's a decision they can make. MR. MILLER. we are business as usual For I—. That's it. MR. ANDEREON; And in my option in ten years if they've decided that they're going to do the maintenance and make sure this City just hums and n roblems, Chen they've got nothing to fear about signing up -— MR. MILLER. =agree with that. MR. ANDERSON. So either option gives Florida Power a na ce opportunity to make money. And I chink that's. what's important. Becau1 totally try to stick it to them, then they'll say: No. E. N, No. And people can legitimately look aY us as being obstructionists and we a_e just trying to poison everything. But we are giving both sides a fair shake M.R. -1: I chink if you try eo make it ret roach e, you're going to c mnl.icate it. i would be nice to make it retroactive and Chat would Cake all If the Segalities of the 460 something thousand dollars off. MR. T-OR: What Steve was saying, though, was make it reC roacCtve plus give us the 462. That's what S_eve is saying. MR. ANDERSON: But here's an option, Richard, what if you cook teat to them, if this Commission votes far Options A and 5 and you talk with her and she starts sayinq: No. No. I don't know. Then say this isn t anything that Che Commission has offered, but what about I feel the issue out and see if it s even something that they would think about as an option. MR. TAYLOR: They may or may not agree to it, Ill I can tell you what their response at least t nit wally is goin9 to be. It's not only you but it s other cities down Che road. 'that's what's ira going to be her patented response. MR. MILLER: Then you look L. need tD say: Look, we don't case abov[ other lilies down [he road. Okay. We re talking about what we are going CG ao. MR. DRAGO: Yeah. But on the other hand, though, they re Co11e Cting the 462 from the raeepayers. MR. MILLER. Correct. MR. DRAGO: :t s not coming out of their pocket. MR. ANDERSON: That's right. MR. MILLER: That's a fact. MR. DRAGO. Even though we have it in O.r bank account. MR. MILLER- It didn't coat [hem a penny - MR. ORAGO: So ItIt — an apples -to -apples comparison relati" to precedent. MR. TAYLOR: And if you can legally do it and make It retroactive and there's no citizen that can challenge it, that blows that argument of [heirs out o_ the water. MR. MAINGOT: Well, they have to see how they're going co ➢ay it back to the Crtrzene. MR. —GO: And if you make it re[roact_ve 01 01 that does take the argument away other than making it at a date in the future where somebody can come back and contest the 462 prior to that date. MR. ANDERSON: I mean, the way 1 -- MR. BUNDY: _f it s going to cost them $150, Ooo to figure out how they're 91i19 to collect the money, the back money, it s going eo have to Bose them at least that �5, 000 on how they're going to refund the 962,000. MR. LOVESTRART: 125,000 for this they said. t0asn't it 125 to figure this out. MR. TAYLOR: No. Not that. MA. DRAGO: 113 on how to disseminate it h— to the ratepayers. how [o calculate -- MR. DRAGO. Nell, how to calculate to give it back to each ratepayer. MR. ANA.RR.M: They're putting that up as a smoke screen. $133,000 on how to calculate how to charge the $773,000 back. Mk. AINGOT: They must have a very r r �neff iciene -- MR. TAYLOR: To go out and collect what they j use gave us -- MR. DRAGO. oh. MR. TAYLOR: -- would .it them $133,0 D0 MR. MILLER. Like it's real tough to run it up on an adding machine cost per customer. MR. LOVESTRAER: Mt. That's what They did and that's less. But to figure out how to collect ft. For example, I m Chinking of changing my account to my wif— name. So they can never come back to me. It would be a different Customer, right? MR. MILLER. That's true. MR. MAI—T: We need to c_rculit,, that CO all Our people in the City Of Longwood. MR. LOVESTRAND: If the whole City changes from husband t0 wife, they couldn't get it back. It s a di££erane Oustomer. MR, TAYLOR: I m going to put it in the name of my parakeet. MR. MILLER. That's true. Not a bad idea. MR, BUNDY: All — d have to do would be put that and the Ovate- bill and chat would be the end Of it. r 0. MR. TAYLOR: You just took the words out of mouth. MR.—IRRIT: Here s a New Year s yif[. Mr. Love —Id, that's the best comment I've heard for the night. MR.—IISTRAND: IC s very complicated. And wF.en they go Co g-ve it back, they're not going Co Z. It. to give it back because of things like that. MR. —DY: Yeah. MR. LOVEE—D: Well, they don'[ mention changing ac<ounes, but Look at the people that move every year, to cent. MR. MILLER. Oh, yeah. Very true. MR. DRAGO: Sure. MR. ANDERBON. I know. So we have two options. MR. BUNDY. And maybe e—thitg - MR. LOVESTRAND: I still dome undt--d Option B. MR. BUNDY: -- for Richard to MR. ANDDRSON: I do. MR. TAYLOR: Option B It the [en years' franchise, p y $IBG,000 of attorneys fees, plus [he changes to ehe agreemene. ol ol r MR. ANOEREON And that's it. MR. MILLER: That's it. MR. MAINGOT. That's it. Straightfll—d. MR. ANDERSON: Both of them — e t.aighef.....d. Both of them give Flo.ida Bowe_ ample oppo.tunity to continue t. enjoy making money. MR. MILLER: What do you think, pawl? MR. LOVESTRANO: Weil, I don't agree with Option A. I chink that they've given in and they've come up, but we ought to come down a little bit. So that -- MR. TAYLOR: You can come down -- MR. LOVESTRANE: - we can come closer -E-her. MR. TAYLGR. Yon Can come d—, to — even, that's showing something. MR. LOVESTRARE: So I can t agree with O.ti.n A. Option B, I don't know [he cami.fic 1-1 from their point of view. From our point Of view, tt . not bad at 111. But I don't know. I don't think it S a taker. I don't think they'll take it. MR. TAYLOR: Come down t. 60D from 612. MR. ANDERSON: I actually would believe that on Option A we Cold Chem this it .u- offer, cake r 01 _C or leave it. MR. MILLER: Fact. MR. ANDEREON So give [hem Che same of ter, they still cake it. MR. TAYLOR: That's a good MR. -GOT: Yeah. MR, AND_RSON. Or you can have Chis other MR. MILLER. That's a Eact. We gave you a way out. You can squeak oue. the door on ehis one. MR. Dtmmx: .ou didn't like Chis one, so how aboue [his one. He cause we didn't like what you roposed. MR. MILLER. That's right. MR. ANDERSON: And I don't Chink thet in either option ehere's anything malicious Erom the City. And that's important, you know; we are trying Co make et work. And it s not per- from our st Id'-- I mean, you know, Sohn is really concerned that the ratepayers don't have it taken oue of their pockets for all this stuff. That's now completely under our control. we re doing the best we can to try to mitigate that. But we re giving up something in that 0. MR. MAINGOT: We re also giving up our Eutuze _rof ieabilicy. MR. ANDER�ON. well MR. MAINGOI': Right? MR. AMDERSON: -- - to possibly. MR. —MOT! And [he possibility Of increased II—iou on our people to meet additional costs of the City; right? MR. ANDERSON! Absolutely. MR, MAINE— And [hat is a serious item. MR. MILLER: 1 think they'll settle on Option A. I really - I still believe [hat. MR. BMNDY: Is this a double or nothing? MR. MILLER. I said that the last time. And we warm t far of_. We were $162,000 away from Option A till this time. That's it. MR. ANDERSOM: Okay. MR. MAINGOT. Bu[ don'[ tell [hem -- MR. MILLER: They made a lot of money. MR. MAINOOT: Don't tell Chem about changing the names on the aocounts. MR. —CY. W—d anybody like to change their water bi11? MR. ANDERSON. Would anybody like to offer any other options or do we say Option A or Option 0- J- MR. TAYLOR. A motion. MR. MAIN : Well, before we 91 there. we ve said this once before, right. This is Our second ctme a-ound. This is our final offer. MR. MILLER: I don't want to say I—. MR. MAINGOT: _ mean, are we lust going eo leave the door o, again. MR. MILLER: He says that if he wants co. MR. TAYLOR. This is final offer B. MR. ANDERSON: That's right. MR. BMEDY. Ih is is final offer A, final If— B. MR. MAINGOT. I d—t think they're taking us seriously to be honest —I you. MR. LOVESTRAND. Yeah. They are. The final offer remained the -- MR. MILLER. E.re. They are. They're taking us seriously. MR. MAINGOT: Well, we'll see. MR. AND£RSON: And if they don't -- MR. MAINGOT: We'll see. MR. ANDERSON: -- then they back themselves a nto a corner. We ve gi en them plenty of outs. MR. MAINGOT: Okay. MR. ANDERSON: _s there any other options because I'd like - move this along. MR. S DY: Yie 11, the only thing That's fine. MR. MILLER: You can tell the M— S— I mean, I was thinking -- MILLER: -- Mille— ears are starting Co burn -- MR. BUNDY: -- that, you know, there is some validity -- MR. MILLER: -- when you talk about buying this franchise bow. MR. DWRY: There is some validity possibly rn what Paul says in that [he money has stayed the same. I mean, if we wanted to -- MR. DR-C: Mll-ipali tttion -- MR. BUNDY. -- to Plan A to droo it. MR. ANDEREON. well, you can point out that in Plan A that we left the attorney's fees at the old value. MR. MILLER. That's a fact. Very brilliant. MR. ANDERSON: They're actually IBo now. Because he had already incurred chose expenses ac the t— of that last offer, we just hadn't been billed yet and paid. ra ol rl And I think that's more than fair and it s something you can point out. MR. MILLER. But really -- MR. LOVESTRAND: That was So,o00 to go to the last court, 1n other words. MR. ANDERSON: 3D. MR. LOVESTRAND: $30,000. MR. TAYLOR. Well, not just for chat. There's e Sot of things that were billed in these. Technically - although I, as yec, have not billed It, the litigation -- which I don't Consider this -- it 1s parc of the litigation what we re doing tonight. But I 1 gone and argued scuff it hearings. You've heard me arguing stuff and whatnot. And under my contract I'm really entitled to be compensated over and above my retainer for that. But 1t has gotten expensive. MR. MILLER: We11, it', undeniably clear, though, that the language of the contract has to It—. MR. LNDERSON. Correct. MR. MILLER: And they need to get off of that point really. Inat signing is just Oviedo did baloney because that will never happen. That r r r� atn t never going to happen. okay. YOu need eo make su_e in my -- i mean, I'm not speaking for the whole commis on, but r m speaking for me. And I'd never agree t0 what Oviedo agreed to. N _act that the they had different agenda is tree, very true. I think that's probably the stronger And the other thing is you can have a couple Of different attorneys read through an. agreement and they're even thinking about things from a different Segal perspective. And then you've got that I didn't pick out MR. TAYI,OR. -- that I don't disagree with him at all. —a a good point. So, you know, you've 9- different people t0 look at something and see different things that are a problem. that's a very valid point. MR. MAINGOT. And I m looking at o s pot if gold that we re giving up. MR. ANOERSON: I'd like to point [his cowards a mot. Gn, =_f anybody else has a comment before we MR. MAINGOT. I would in the spirit of c p mise, 1 m prepared -- I m prepared to go along. MR. 8[TTCH: I'll put it in the form of a motion. That we authorize Richard to negotiate with Florida power with Plan A, which is essentially our o_d plan. And Plan E, which is a ten-year franchise agreement, language changes and attorney's fees of 180,000 approximate thousand. MR. TAYLOR: 100, MR. MILLER: I second the motion. MR. ANDERS— Okay. Re have a motion and a second for Chose ewo options. Is there any discussion above chose two options? MR. ERAGO. in Plan A, is he supposed co gee the language changed, too. MR. MILLER: Oh, yes. MR. MAINGOT: In both cases. MR. MILLER: Eoth cases. MR. ANDF.RSON. Absolutely. Any further comments on -- MR. ORAGO: And he's supposed to make it _n P, ri r- 156 the EUCure, not retro. The xe[_o s It, him to _eel them out. MR. ANDERSON Cozzect. MR. MILLER: Cosrec[. MR. ANDERSON And that's not part of this motion. He can do that on his own. MR. MILLER: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR: I'll do a little more checking that as well. MR. MILLER: I m. not sure he can get away th Chat. MR. ANDRRSON: Okay. MR. ry NGOT: Think positive, Steve. MR. AMDERSON: DO we want a consensus vs,e. MR. MSLLRR: That's really .iffy, .— MR, ANDERSON: All right. All those in I— , say aye. (Ayes responsel MR. —SON. Those opposed say no. MR. L—STRAMD: No. MR, ANDERSON. Okay. It carries. 4 to 1. 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