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CCMtg11-25-02SMMinLONGWOOD CITY COMMISSION Longwood City Commission Chambers 175 W. Warren Avenge Longwood, Florida MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING NOVEMBER 25, 2002 7:00 P.M. Present: Mayor Dan Anderson Deputy Mayor Slevc Miller Commissioner Batch Bundy Comm lsslnner Pant Locesrrand Cum "I .lohn C. Maingot John d. DOigo, City Administrator Richard S. Taylor, dr., City Attorney CALI, TO 1)I1 DEIF Mayor Anderson c,11d o special meeting 10 order al 7:00 p.m ANNOUNCEMENT. Ma.'of.Sdcrson ....none d lho follo�vina Thu ...nbcrs of the Longwood Ill, Commission. Mawr Dan Anderson. I) ryui� Uayor Steve Miller. Commissioner Durch Oundv. Commiz�'ion.r pool tn...... and Commissioner John C. Mnirrxot ��ill mecl in clu d session wish iC'iI�A�ioniy Richard S. Ta�lor.. Jr.. John 1. Drago. C'ii� Adminisnaior soda Coan Rep�ncr fortlte purpoxofdiuussuig Flending litig:n ion(s:0.ment and ession) with Irlorida I'ossrr Corpotv:ion. '1 he a�ed Icnaih of time for the closed session meeting �� ill 1>< oni (I 1 hiiar_ This nieciin,villhe-du—d in aceordnna with Florido Smtwis 2XG.I1111R). t. ANNOUNCI2: TIME OF It -TES TO CLOSED NESsION. �Aatnr Andcrurn aonouned al 7:f12 p.in. lh,el the Commission ruoald «ecss into ,� clas�d swoon. CC 1 t-25-021269 h6dOLRIME, I 'IF CC ...... ... .. inn si 1 W I' ll�dll"'.' Ma""' cG 11 25-02/260 LONGWOOD CITY COMMISSION 175 West Warren Avenue Longwood, Florida November 25, 2002 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS R ROC 5_ I N G S MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Our purpose is to d iscues settlement negotiations and --My concerning Florida power and our franchise. MR. MILLER: First, I'd like to move to suspend all the rules. MR. E.— Second. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. I have a motion and second. All of inose vn favor, say, aye. [Ayes respond] MR. ANDERSON: Those opposing say no. [No responsel MR. ANDERSON: It carried. The rules are suspended. I guess we should start. Do you want -- you have something? MR. TAYLOR: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: You told me you had something [o say. MR. TAYLOR. And we need to gee this .rolling by stating, as the Mayor said, this meeting is being conducted in accordance with Florida Statutes 281.0118, which is an excepeion to the public meeting laws. So we re allowed co meet eo discuss pending litigation for the sole purpose of dis cussing And that could get into, you k—, —11d we settle or should 11 buy 11, th-11, But .. .... I discuss it9l outside If the Florida P.— issue and limiting it basically co settlement. negotiations and strategy session. course, Of h, I—. it, having this meeting as so that we can di —It. this I—dIt ourselves without the glt—ll h— or Florida Power knowing about it. S. —I It 1-1 this —, obviously you cant di...s it with each ocher. You can discuss it with — You can di —It it with Tom Cloud IIIn though he's not h— because he's one If .., --ty., or you individually could dill— it with John D-9t. But obviously not with each It— or anyone outside this I—; friends, family, anybody. A.d I stress that because I — like -- not with this Commission, but in previous hethatyears and having discussions in here that I certain iI-- of the public Cellinq me the next --i, — that were -id it here. And obviously if we y:::: goneby with anotherf the whole purpose of being here if w go back and talk to the public or anyone really, even family members would be excluded from that. But that being said, the only other thing 1 wane to add is I have had a discussion -- actuall other young lady with Florida Power since our last meeting -- another phone call with Gail Simpson -- they've now made an additional offer for you to consider. And the offer basically is as follows: They Pay $150, 000 that Chey ve already offered without strinMs attached. And, of course, we ve got another bill since for -- a pretty good size bill -- over $20,000. So faceor that in, 150 won ta[ pay all that, but that's all they're offering this came. I1_ the 960,000 Chat we re holding :n the City coffers plus or minus in that amount. They ve offered half of that or 230. $—, 000 that they will pay on top of the 150 toward. a project. So add the 230 plus the 150. MR. MILLER: wait a minute. MR. BUNGY: They've already paid that. MR. MILLER: They— already paid the money. MR. DWWRY: We've qot that money. MR. TAYLOR: We11, I say pay it. MR. —DY: They'll release it. MR. LOVESTRAtJ➢: No. MR. TAYLOR: No. They won t. MR. LOVEETRAMD: It doesn't sound 1- -1-- MR. —OR: They're going to pay ue 210, MR. LOVESTRAMD: In ocher words, we could qet both. MR. TAYLOR: Right. What Chey'ze offering Co do is to pay $230,000 on top of what we re holdinq >n the kitty. Antl then -- MR. MILLER. To hold -- MR. TAYLOR; Wait a minute. Let me finish and Chen you'll understand. Then this case with W>ntez Park is going to go on to the Supreme Coure. Should the Supreme Court rule that entitled to chat money, we, meaning they should have been collecting franohise fees, as a hold -oven tenant in essence, then we can keep the ?60 plus the 230 plus they'll have to pay os ehl -- plus, we get [o keep the "]"10 chat they're above to pay I. So by doing that we have the possibility o_ not only getting the "I but "I on top Of it because if we win at the Supreme COurt level, they're not going to get some credit. back for that 230 -- MR. BANDY: Okay. That's -- MR. TAYLOR: -- and have to pay back -- MR. 5UNDY: -- an additional -- they used 50 percent as the point CO arrive at that figure. That has nIthilg actually t0 do with the money that they've already paid in. MR. MILLER. Yes. It does. MR. TAYLOR: It has CO I. -- MR. MILLER: That money -- MR. —STRAND: That's It the way I understood, Richard. MR. si — Yeah. If -- MR. MILLER: The money is still encumbered; right? MR. BANDY: No, That III is, but the III that they re going to pay us no matter how the case comes out that stays. MR. —DY: Is that correct. MR. TAYLOR. That's correct. MR. BUNDY: So it is in addition. So instead of 460, basically thous 6S O,OOO. MR, TAYLOR: Right. If we win the case. MR. BUNDY. Plus the 773 something. MR. MAINGOT: Pending litigation. MR. OUNDY: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR: And, of course, that 460 keeps going up every month. MR. BUNDY: -eah. MR. TAYLOR! And part of what I put in the settlement negotiations is Chat money keeps getting collected obviously, eveo if we settle until the time Chat a franchise passed and they feel that they re obligated to start collecting. So, I mean, they re throwing something at us. It s better than 11hzt they re offered. A lot of it depends on what direction this Commission wants to go. I think we re at a -- kind of at a crossroads. And Florida Power -- I do agree with the ladies from Florida Power on this. I aon t agree with them on everything. Hut we re leaning Cowards arbitration. The Sudge has ordered us to pick arbitrators now and head in that direction. And if we want to head in chat direction, then that's cereainly a direction that we can head to and we can 1— at. And we aI— could probably put arbitration off and wait and see what the supreme court does and so on and so forth. Hut we re kind at a crossroads, i have mixed emotions from the standpoint of an —,Illy advising a client as to settlement, which is part of my job as an a_torney. If you accept that 230, you have the possibility of 690, plus you get the 770. MR. MILLER: But what's ehe worst case stenarro. If, say, we lose, what happens then? MR. BRAGO: You keep the 150 and 231. MR, MILLER: And that's it. MR. 'I'AYLOR: Right. And the worst MR. MILLER: But if we don't ac i[ and we I— we keep nothing but the 150; right? MR. MAINGOT: Plus the 250. MR. TAYLOR. we don't get anything. MR. BMEY: You don't get anything. MR. MILLER: Well, wart a minute. That's right. we don't get anything. MR. LOVESTRAtN: The other thought is the I 10 Songer we procrastinate, the 462 that's encumbered will grow encumbered or unencumbered, if we settle, that will start being ours. And the 462 won [ g=ow. MR. MILLER. Is that true. MR. LOVEETRAND: They'll be 460 encumbered but all from there on will be ours. MR. BRED, It will grow until we -- MR. -STRAND: Because if we "tele -- MR. BMRDY: -- reach a franchise -- MR. LOVESTRAND. If we settle -- once we settle -- MR. MILLER: We have to have an agreement; ght? MR. LOVESTRAND: -- we have an agreement. MR. T-M: Hang on. Ylme out. MR. ANDEREON: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR: And 2 meant to say at ehe beginning, Deb, I apologize. We suspended the rules. But the court reporter, she's a little better actually than the average court reporter who d--t have these microphones and literally can only Cake down one person. There's iour microphones which helps her out along with her notetaking as well. 11 But let's Cry and speak one at a time, so I don't have t get her any Valium or ything before this evening is over. MR. LOVESTRAND: Well, I want to finish my MR. TAYLOR: Sure. MR. I—ESTRAHD: -- that they interrupted. Rut what I m sayivg is. Ne got 462 that's in dispute. we re collecting it and it a in dispute. If we don't settle, that 462 will grow and the disputed monies will grow. If we settle, the 462 will stop. MR. MILLER: T-11 t. MR. LOVESTRAND: And all the money we collect from settlement or. will be our money. MR. —DY. Nell, the n62 will stop when we reach a franchise agreement. MR. LOVESTAAND: Right. MR. TAYLOR: Right. MR. LOVESTRAN➢: Yeah. It s probably already grown a little nigher than that. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. All right. MR. TAYLOR! Or will before an ordinance could be paaeed in any case. And the only Other thing I would say is that that's -- there's good points. That will stop. You know, the negative thing is I really think -- but they area t going to do this -- that it was their decision not Co collect the fees in the beginning. And they ought to be ponying up the full �]0. But when we xe talking about litigation, tt s not always what's right bit sometimes it" negotiating or mediating or whatever to a middle 911ind Chat you know when you walk oit the door, you've qoe the bird in the hand. So you have to consider, you know, oh, yes, in the many cases 2 represent clients going: 2 desire the metre million dollars. MR. -OR: So whenever I go, yeah, but if we go to court you might not get anything. So if you Met half a million today, yoi got a half of I really think that -- and, again, this is just my professional opinion that winter Park will wrn in the Supreme Court and the Supreme wi l_ reject the Bel -Aire case and that comes down [o which -- whether or not they sedate the A -- case applies in this 5ltuation. And basically the big difference is ib Alachua they just imposed this fee. And in our case there's an expired franchise fee. And that to me as a huge distinction. But I'm not on the Supreme Court and I can t tell you what those nine guys up there are going to decide for sure. I think we'l3. win the 770 and the 4— But I cer[ai my cant guarantee it. MR. BUN➢Y. My concern -- one of my concerns rs chat this was a decision for them to stop collecting it. It was not a decision by the ratepayers. It was not a decision by this Commission. The srx percent was never in question with the old franchise agreement, the new agreement is I. percent. That's never been you know, has never been a factor in it. And they - they are the ones that, you know, chose to do that. And we had no say in i[. They then -- you know, I mean, rt just - _ m concerned -- as it, as i m concerned, that was a business decision thae they made. It was a bad business decision in yr ew of what we know from the court cases, you know, I. And I would -- what I chink is they should pay the entire franchise fees out of their -- Chat they did not collect out of their pockets MR. —1: Rtn' go -- MR. ANDERS— No, finish. MR. DUMDY: Well, I -- I mean, I can tell you overwhelrtri ng while ove campaigning that•. the sentiment of the City or the residents. Now, they don't know the int rcca«es of the like. — they -- you know, they feel that Florida Power made that decision and Florida Power needs Co pay it. MR. TAYLOR. And let me -- Chat brings up a good point Commissioner Dundy. Lee me also inCerjece aC Chis point saying what they're offering obviously you could accept that, you could reject it and eoune er and say, no, we want the full 46]. or we wane 400 or y figure in h1t. n. Or you could also add other Ching. Co the settlement such as. If we win a1 the Supreme Court level, the 770 you are going to state th- y-- going pay that out of your ow-ocket; you're not going to go in to apply with a Public Service Commrssion to backcharge the customers. There's all different combinations. I,. nearing from them fairly strongly that they -- voluntarily agree to do that. And ultimately even if we wrn at the Supreme Court level, the Supreme Court r. not going to tell Chem Chat they —I, backcharge. The only one that's going to have some juri sdiceion eo Say you cannot backcharge rs the Public Service Commission. MR. TAYLOR: And my Feeling from the advice Public -It- Commission -- is that they rarely would allow someone to backcharge. Florida Power, of course, is telling me they Chink that they would and also that they would present it to the Public Service Commission in such a way Chat it would be repaid over five years or something. So it was twe Or $3 a month on the customers bill and it wouldn't break their back by getting a 100 or 1So or $200 bill all at one time, which may make the Public Servrce Commission say: Okay. If y— — going to ao that, you can. Or it might say. I don't care how you want backcharge. So ultimately we may not have the final say in [hat. MR. ANDERS— A couple of thing.. I'd 1 r if I 16 IT to focus on. What is it that this Commission is going to accept? 11— are we going to offer eo Florida Power and say these are things Chat we absolutely require? These are ehings ehae we re willing to negotiate with you on. I mean, if we determine what we _e willing to negotiate on but say we want these things, I Chink we need to establish that in this. As far as what Richard was saying about, we re not going to get the perfect deal I don't think. But how do we best attack this? As far as. Should Florida Power pay this oue o,. their own pocket? Absolutely I think so. But, again, I really believe that's out of our hands. Thous going to be settled by the Public Service Commission. So we could say in any proposal, we want you pay this out of your own pocket, everything I ve seen says they're going to balk at that. So, I mean, that's the only reason that you could put chat in there is just to stick them a little bit, but I don't think that's productive. The two questions 'I had for you, Richard, one. If they go and - they've said that they — ll going to contest the 460,000 and that actually, I guess, falls under"' winter Park appeal that that would cover both -- MR. TAYLOR. Um -hum. MR. ANOERSON: -- sets of money. Have they ever established who i.s going to pay to figure out who gets how much back? You know, if they only give me $2 back, am I going to hire Harry Sacobs and say: Wait a second. I was supposed to yet 56 back? How are they going to determine that? And also the $770,000 figure, have they actually been tracking how much they would have collected but have refused to not collect? Because how do we even know that the figure is 7?0,000 and not, you know, 820 -- MR. LOVESTR-D: 689, MR. ANDERSON: -- or 630. Yeah. Because, I mean, t depends on what people are saying. MR. LOVESTRAN'D: They've got their accountants doing that, Dan. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. So they are -- MR. LOVESTRANU: Sudge -- whaC was her name. -- Alley told Chem to figure it out. MR. ANDERSON; They've done that srnce they've refused to collect. MR. IAVERTRAR➢: Well, I don't know if they've done it yet. MR. TAYLOR. There's two figures to figure out. The easy one, according to them and what I would Chink would be easy, it to figure out what the total amount would be for all the customers an the City of Longwood, which they,,, going to establish and they've got a dace already coming up fairly soon. I don't have the date off the top of my head. I haven't seen the court order yet. But that their accountants there to testify. she did- - to testifying, that to determine how much ➢an Anderson is entitled to and everyone else ih the City is going to cost $133,000 to Calculate. Why tt e that complicated, I don't know. But that was one of their beefs to the Judge ie it e going to cost ve all that amount. And she Chat withheld it, figure it out And the other question is -- and you led me other day in my office, I asked them: These people have paid the 462. Now, you know, how are you going eo -- that, not something you haven't collected and baekcharged. But now that's something that you ve got to refund. How are going to calculate that. Are you going [o spend 133,000 and then go: I don't know. we'll cross e hoe bridge when we come [o it. Bue one of things they responded eo me about the 462 as to why they or their attorneys have a concern about saying we'll leave that unencumbered because it s already collected. And it has a little bit of validity to it even though e probably somewhat -- not so much far-fetched but unlikely to happen -- is that they said if we release that 462 to you, no matter what happens in the litigation and the Supreme Court said eh a[ they shouldn't have been collecting it all along, any Citizen in the City could bring an accion or a class action or whatever saying you got $462,Oo0 of my money Florida Power that you collected, have been collecting, I want my money back MR. ANnE-- Okay. MR. MILLER: They can do Chat anyway. MR. TAYLOR: And you wouldn't think chat someone would do Chat, but I— seen stranger things happens. Plus an attorney could get a hold of it and say: Class action. MR. LOVBST-RAND: Or someone could say, like yeelf, I m putting my electric in my wif e's name instead of my name, therefore, when y0, go to the backcharge, you can't backcharge my wife. She wasn t here. It', just like trying to backcharge someone who just moved in the ne ighbo_hood. xow are you going to backcharge them? MR. TAYLOR. Of course, the backcharge thing -- MR. —DY: That's the other thing. MR. —OR: -- is going to be their problem. They're going t0 have Co -- they've already even said a long time ago in this litigation that -- and stipulated way back -- MR. —Dx. Back -- MR. T YLOR: -- at the injunction hearing that if they -- if the customers moved out or however it rs that they son [ backcharge them, they would eat Chat. And they wf 11 have to r obviously eat that MR. MAINGO I have a slightly different take on this thing. I[ is my understanding that a couple of years ago, Sony before I cane on [he scene, this City had an opportunity of a joint venture of some sort involving anoeher city with regard to a sewer operation. MR. M NCOT: Which we, for reasons Ilk—. to me, decided not eo pursue. Every year our operaeing expenses of this City are going to keep going up. we are very limited in terms of what we have by way of addi—b.1 sources of revenue to the City other than, of course, the most obvious one which, of course, is certainly against the grain If most of It and that, of course, rs increasing the fees, increasing the taxation burden on ou_ titilb— Therefore, as I have read and I have spoken to people outside of this City, we re looking at an opportunity here that we should in actual fact not rush to a conclusion of an agreement with Florida Power, bet rather explore our other opportunities we have, other opportunities, vre a- vis municipalization as eo what would be the net benefit to the City in terms of additional income. At lease ae the end of that procedure, which I do not think we have ventured into that area, to discussion with any of the providers in this area, ocher than, of course, what we have presented to We, therefore, would be in a better position to make an informed decision not for five years or ten yearn, but we re Calking of a 30-year period. S. it is a very difficult Ching in my humble e sCamation to go forward without having looked at what avenues, what opportunities are there for I. Us, meaning the people of the City, in terms of being able to generate additional revenues Ear our Continued increased operating expenditures. They are not going to go down. They're going to go up every year. In terms our redevelopment plan, yes, we have laid a tremendous amount of very well thought-out plane in our Longwood Development Code, but that From what I ve seen and what —I heard, I know that we cannot compare Ourselves with the City of Orlando. Hut I know in the immediate past year, ouc contributed over 50 million dollars to the City of Orland— operating budget. I know that the City of Gainesville with a 40-m111ion-dollar budget in actual fact had a contribution of 15 million dollars to their budge[ by their power system. But there's a little difference [here, like, ouC the city of Gainesville iC s my understanding they also have a generaeing capacity; right. But Alachua County in actual fact buys o er from them. And I do no[ wish Co be the spoiler, but I feel in all honesty and having regard and listening to all that's being said in terms of if we take this we will lose this and so forth. i mean, to terms o_ what dollars and cents and what possibility there is for additional income for [his City over ene foreseeable future, I think we would be doing a great disservice to us if we did not genuinely explore other avenues. I know that the easiest way out Of this would be to go forward with a settlement from 11—ida course of aeelon that we ought to Cake, that we ought to put forward in retrospe cC f., this City? I feel that like other caries that are —g . —d— avenue, I think --id— doing the — Ching. — the S.ph—, Cl i. -11ah—,. come down with their 1.-9 and at that --t we would, therefore, h.,. . better conclusion lit — our t,i,ft as t. - and additional information accrued i, the meantime as to b-enable us to - make a — —i— decision i,, my For this --t year we have budgeted without any revenues from Florida — light. and going back to the Florida Power franchise agreement lb— axe —.y things that to this ..e that being plIll—d h—, they have been left There are —y -- that you, Richard, h,,, ---d h— it this 1-t—, ---g 1-1— of N.—Il the 12th Chat have not yet -- been touched; right. Chink that as C— has said, we ought to -11 them if we going to pursue that area of franchise —hl with them. — q—, off to h... I'CP.Ild for them t. —11. with .1 .1— —y around; ighl. W, have I mandate from the people t. .1—k their 1111 inL Brest and 11 it I 111111dIll Cask that b,n given t. and necessarily or nnneces ..r ily the ---t ..y is not .1..y, th, bese way. I would Chink that we look back in --tpl,t about chat l— operation that we .... .. vit,d had I. not -- or had we 11-11t.d, where —d be i, b, if additional --- for the City? People have spoken —It: —1, if we b— I problem It— with I hurricane, —, are going to d.? All if the —t, in tl.I if p.tllllg the City b— together as — 11 thI p.— ly.1— is concerned, ' with Ih 1111plill 11 1— percent, by And that it I fact; ht. So there are —y things Chat one has Co consider i. terms if —1-- with Florida l..- and I I- to gain? And 1hl1 are -- It what are they PI.P.11d, but —t we —I —lpl—d Co I'l-PI by way of a 1--d franchise .91—t; right. And only if we bl,I as hard and as t.,,h 1 they've been Ili, with they're 1-9 very subtle with chose two ladies. -tic. the r g—ti—I I.— to the fill,, h, 11t. them came .It t—to right. But h". i-- — we cannot accept what they're going t, 'ff— us to -- of you k—, -- not going t. consider that; no. W, have 10 be pretty hard- nosed —.t it and say —t we P—PlIld t. ..... t. And we have Co — the .—I and that's the only —y ,d what — said tonight i. demons[raCive of the sit Ii— that appeared when we met with them Illi. They — that we were not able co —11 over and play dead. 'they — that we insistent upon "'t— fig— in t—, if —1— and, therefore, they made another offer, you know, Co -y t, — if they can appease We h— to —id f—, right. And it the same time I put it t. you that we also have and should Ilpl.— other ipp—i—i— that we have In addition to that, if we .o d,— that the would definitely —t to — inside if there some f— of a rolling out and there was a ten-year rolling opportunity. Because we need to have teeth inside if there to —P them h.—It. And e not rely purely upon Tallahassee and the Public Service Commission to keep them honest; right. We have to do everything we can to make sure Chat whatever we sign wf th Chem has teeth in it to protect the interest of our City and our people. MR. l-LOR; If I could say, as each one talks, if I can kind of interject some things and ehen I won t lose my train of thought at. the end. One, ehere are as Commissioner Mai'got sated numerous things in my letter. I kind of think It,s premature to yet into 1 lot of those even stranded costs uneil we get to a bottom line as to -- as Mayor Anderson said what's -- I th—k the first thing we have to get to as a bottom line is. What is the amount of franchise fees that we would have to get right now in order to settle this? And I Chink you could say, well, we want ehe full 770 plus the 462, They won't settle going to— rn order to settle something you�re going to have to compromise. And if —le not wiliiny to do that, then we re wasting our time. And there's no need to qo any fureher. So that's kind of the thing about the things I brought up, there's some things in here you wouldn't even have to discuss. Some I could ol f r 29 sit down from 1 11 standpoint and 1-1— Chem. Some of Chem are discussions I think —d to be ..d, by y... .11 the other thing I chink is that I really think Chat Florida P.— doesn't think that the City of —9—d 11 one bit —i— and maybe we are and -be we re noe -- I I.— k— - about bl—h—i, the 1— s., therefore, they can play --1 and that we'll ultimately agree t, whatever terms I-1— we not I—i—t. And whether going forward with —lip,li—R. —1— a lot —di— and so forth that I, thl, il'I a 9— idea. There's people that IIY it a risky id— And, If course, the ultimate decision is Y."'. S. I don't — which to g, 11 Chat. MR. —DEMSON: I have -- you 1.11hId .. some jmp— lhib,. in there. One, has Florida -- responded to y... letter If some If the I—, that y., --d to change, 11 has that 3— 9-1 out ..d net been --Idl MR. —LOR John n,IgI and 1 .1 with I— to thi,, room prior to our lase commission meeting. And I went over some chinge in here, but without spending —t would have to b. an 1.-1 —11- 29 or maybe even a day or two i0 cry and hash these things out, it was kind of we all agreed and i agreed that it was putting the cart before the horse. MR. RNDEREON ses. MR. T—OR. That whether or it I agree whether they can put -- MR. RNDEASON. That's okay. MR. —LOR: -- equipment in Our substations for example, It -aye in their agreement that we can put substation- in our right-of-way. I said: You can t do that. Those are [hinge we could hammer out. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Let me focus ue back Chen. I- Chose details are going to be handled later, what it the time line for arbitration? If we do not sign an agreement, what is our timer line that we re under? MR. TAY— I don't chink a definite time line has been set. It would probably be Cowards at least the middle or end Of next year. But I would say at least the middle of next summer or nexe fa11 before arbitration Cook place. MR. URAGO: [Nods head affir--ily) MR. ANDERSON: Okay. When did you have to get to the judge to tell him [sic], we re going to pick some arbitrators? MR. =LOR. The judge has ordered us to do that now, actually to select who they're going to be. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MR. —LOR: Selecting them and getting a date sec and all C}:e gearing up for it are two different things. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Because -- and you and John both hit on this, we have publicly said from the dies, all we want is a essentially the same franchise that we had before. Me want the buyout clause and we re prepared to sign this. And we also stated we have no rneentton whatsoever of ever buying [his system. Now, where [hays put Florida Power ct says: _i— You'll never buy the system, so —11 wear you down and we'S1 keep charging you attorneys fees. W-1 s cop collecting Che franchise feee. Eventually r[ s got eo hurt the City. And —11 just go and play the yame in all the other cities. Meanwhile, we don't have nybody that negotiates with us. They send those two ladies in and they -- [heir only response is. I can t say anything, we'll have to take it back to eiorida Power. we have never had the deci sionmaker in front of us. And we ve never had the person who car. say -- MR. LOVESTRAD: eut, Oan -- MR. AMDERSON: -- yes or no to front of us. Bold I. And so .—I sitting here Crying to negotiate with people that cant truly negotiate. They can g0 back and talk and maybe we'll gee a response back. But iF they know ehae we re unw: 1.1 ing to ever buy, there is not incentive for ehem co take any negoer at ions that we make. The only way that I can see to gee them to negotiate in good faith, is to start attaching some form of a cost to their side of the negotiations in dragging it out. And they've kind of with that, okay, okay, we'll ayree to give you the $150,000 in attorney s _ees, bue noe any more. But -- MR. LOVESTRAMD: Md the 230 or whatever. MR. B Y: That's step two. MR. ANDERSON. That's sort of a step. But if you start attaching ideas, like, we re going to ask for -- if we cant get this thing settled now, 9 we re going to ask for a ten-year rolling buyout option in the contract. 0, we re going to ask for the $460,000 now. And if, ae they said, well, maybe somebody could come and sue It and weld have to refund them, n it rn the contract and say: You need to pay that and refund it. —11 keep the 460 ou_selves and you figure out how to deal with that risk. There needs to be a way to incentive them I. sign the cont—t if that's the direction we re going. And it seems that that's where we want eo go. sut Z don't think we re going to make any progress because nothing in this hurts them. The I—— they drag it out, it doesn't hurt Chem. But they perceive that the longer that they drag it out, e re hurt because we might be getting heat from constituents saying: sign. where's our money? Sign. D. this. Legal fees are going up. That's my ccn — rs know what time line we re on and what options. And you're telling u.. that we re supposed to pick arbitrators. And that's really our only recourse. It s either arbitration or cry eo negotiate. And Florida P.— knows that we said we will never buy this system. So they dismissed the 33 arbitrators and they know that we either need to cave or, you know, go to axbi[rat.i on we re not going to do. So they're looking to force us to cave. And that's my concern that we need to find a way to SAY: Look. We re willing to sign, but it s not going to be at bargain basement. We need to actually be taken care of. MR. MILLER: I haven't spoke yet. Can I speak first? MR. ANDERSON: Go ahead. MR. LOVESTRAND. Go ahead. MR. MILLER: Do you mind, Paul? MR. LOVESTRAND: [Shakes head negatively] MR. MILLER: Okay. i ve listened to everybody so far. I think there's a number of flaws in some of our Logic. Okay. Just a few. The sewer comparison, many, many years ago when the sewer plant in Altamonte Springs was built, it was built with a government grant. Okay. And quite honestly we had a City Commissioner here namely Mr. Grant who, quote, at a meting said: He didn't want hit crap to go to Altamonte Springs. 39 Okay. Thae's exactly what he said word for word. At that - all of our sewer system could have been n it, okay, for nothing almost. MR. -STRAND: 9 percent. MR. MILLER: Yeah. Nothing. And the sewer system -- the tread plan was rn Altamonte Eprings. we could have gotten it paid for by the federal government. Okay. Now, the problem with this situatiob is no[ only do we have to pay for it ourselves, we had to yet the taxpayers to vote 1t at a duly held referendum and approve it and there's going to be one hell of a lot of people out there Crying to get it defeated. And I want co remind everybody here that every single debt referendum that's been voted on 1. this City has failed, including the police s[at.i on. Every .1 of Chem failed. They did it anyway, but even this little police station [indicating] failed, okay. These people in this City are going into debt for anything. You can forget it. It am e going to happen, I'm telling you. All right. The only way that I can see for us to do it would be to pay cash for it. we ve got to move to arbitration soon or seeel e. The subject was brought up about keeping them honest. I don't really -- you know, they're a business. They're a for -profit business. I really ha —t seen the dishonesty, okay, like you guys have. I really ha—i— I really believe that these people are only Crying to save their company. The fact that they're being allusive about certain things is normal business procedure. I mean, I don't hold that against them. The things that ehey do in the normal course of their busfness I don't hold against them at all. Do I think they should pay us our ,000 bucks? You bet I do. The 460,000, Coo, I do. And I Chink in the end we _, going to get paid if we settle. This extra $230,000 plus $—,000 is a bonus to me. That's fine. And as Ear as them befog worried above ue going to arbitration, they're quite worried about rt. I got to tell you right now because they have called me on a —e la.r basis. You guys are not Chinking about going to arbitration; are you? You re not thinking about going to arbitration; are you? They're scared out of their wits over it. Okay. They really 111, They know that there's a p bl b tau h n't S d gel e. Ad I t nk th a c 1 Iha by d d co 1 ,thiLM. ThRy ca anus doing business en the City forever without an agreement, if they .,It co. They don't have 10 have an agreement with us co a0 business here. what are you going to d0, throw them out? Who's going to replace them? If the referendum fails, what happens then? We have co create an entire bureaucracy just co do this, if we decide we re going co do it. MR. ANOERSON: [Nods head affirmatively] MR. MILLER. An entire bureaucracy Of trucks ana ma.,ncenance -- MR. MAINOOT: That's not correct. MR. MILLER. -- personnel. Okay. What are we going to hire some outside ouef is co do it. —It got 10 manage it somehow. MR. ANEERSON: You have 10 manage bvt let's -- MR. MILLER: Ftre'e the thing. MR. ANDERSON. So we re — going I. M. I. buyout, how -- MR. MILLER: Here s what I think. MR. ENDERBON: -- do you propose we settle? MR. MILLER. I propose that we settle -- we get Richard to negociate the final sticking points of the letter. Okay. we need to move cowards a settlement in my agreement [sic) in my estimat>on. MR. LOVEBTRAND: With dollars. MR. MILLER: Oh, the $230,000 is fine. That's a gimme. I have no doubt that we re going to get the rest of our money. I don't see for one second the Supreme Court allowing them to eat $460,000 and 770,000 bucks, they're not going to do it. They're going to win. We're going to win. They're going to rule in our favor and eventually we re going to get that money. Mow, I'm a little -- I have mixed reviews about no, they should collect it or how they should pay us, okay. But that is also part of the negotiations. Richard and Sohn can negotiate that also. I don't have any thoughts on it one way or Che other. Okay. - far as taking it back out of Che people, I don't agree chat that should happen. I. Hut that's something we can work o— 'f do think we need to move towards the settlement, though. MR. TAYLOR: And I think that's something, by the way, Commissioner Miller, that needs to come from you whether -- ME. AN➢ERSON: Yes. MR. TAYLOR: - to agree to backcharge or nOt. I don't think that's an a[torney's decision to make. I think that's a Commission decision. MR. MILLER: I agree that the public Service Iommrssron will probably not let them do it. They probably wouldn't. However, you know, maybe I Or $2 a month isn't so bad. I don't know. Spread it out over a period of time. MR. AN➢ERSON: Well, I see Chat that's out of Our hands either way. MR. MILLER. I do, Coo. But I do believe we need t0 Eorget about arbitration and running up more attor ey s fees and running up arbitrator's I— and all this other stuff for a risky referendum that may not pass. Okay. And then where are we. MR. TAYLOR: Of course, the other thing I MR. MILLER: Ana then the 200 -- we donut gee the extra $230,000, okay, if we do Chat. Okay. We scared to lose, lose, lose all the way around, okay, taking a big chance. And I cant stress enough the history of what's happened in this City. MR. TAYLOR: And on chat issue, you can rest assssred that Commissioner Miller is right as far as a lot of people out there, one oam=ly Florida Power, that will spend a con of money on, call it propaganda, or whatever -- MR. MILLER: You better believe it. MR. TAYLOR. -- that they want to put out to do it. That's it to say that it wouldn't pass. But the oth— thing is thac bonds would pay for this and -- MR. MILLER. That's right. MR. TAYLOR' -- the bonds, you know, would secure. And if the people understood that city hall wasn't going to be foreclosed upon or the City itself was not going to be encumbering any of its own property or funds I. order to do it, it makes a whole lot of difference than saying, like, the police stlti— where City -- MR. B[mmY. That's right. MR. TAYLOR! -- funds are being used. Recently by the way -- MR. MILLER: Well, the police station -- MR. TAYLOR: -- just this past year -- MR. MILLER: -- no. The police station was done with a bond issue. MR. -OR: Was tt. MR. MAINGOT. It was not rejected. MR. BANDY: The bond issue failed -- MR. MAINGOT: It was - MR. BANDY: - and it was built anyway. MR. MILLER. You re It. right it failed. They built it anyway and Chen they got sued -- MR. BANDY: But the City was encumbered. ME. MILLER: -- and the whole bunch of Chem had to stand up there at the dies and apologize fo.r viol at.i ng the charter. And then they all got broomed out of office at the next election. MR. BUNEY: And the City was encumbered -- MR. MILLER. Well, I don't want to end up like that. That's crazy. MR. TAYLOR: It. could go either way because of the propaganda. They recently, by the way, at this last electicn had referendums in Las g and in San krancieco. And I think the power company in sin Francisco spent 2 mfllion dollar's. Of course, that's a big city, San Francisco compared to, you know, you couldn't spend that much in Longwood if you tried and the referendum passed in Las Vegas. MR. BBNBY: Well, I have no doubt they'd try. MR. TAYLOR: And in San Francisco it fafled. MR. .REMERSON. By, like, two percent. MR. TAYLOR: But it failed. MR. BLIJAY. But at passed in Las Ve9as. MR. TAYLOR: But It passed in Las Vegas. And a lot of that had to do with the casinos were behind the municipalization of things. MR. MILLER. The minute -- one ma nt. We 1 got 5, 500 homes here — something; right? When 1,500 residents get a letter -- MR. LOVESTRANU. 1,?00. MR. MILLER: -- that they're going to have to E. into debt for 14 million bucks or whatever is it MR. MAINOOT: They don, have to 9, into debt. MR. MILLER. They do have to go into debt. Okay. MR. MAINGOT: Not at ail. Not at all. MR. MILLER. Well, I'd like to know how you're going to find it. MR. MAINROT. By revenue bonds and the revenue generated -- MR, MILLER: That•, going into debt, okay. Sohn, I don't Cere haw you soft stroke it. A bond is a debt. MR. ANOERSON: We11, en all fai mess to John, you are correct eh— is a debt owed. MR, MILLERS You darn right there MR. MAINOOT: Oh, yes. Okay. MR, MILL EI Okay. MR. BUNDY: Not a City debt, MR. MAINGOT. Not a City debt. MR. ANRERSON. Hut it', the difference of, if you have to secure it against City revenues and City property, that's the kfnd of debt You're chinking of and it scares people. Hut if you secure tt against the revenue stream if the utilities -- MR. MILLER. I know Chat. MR. RIOERSON: Well, I understand. But if you secure it against a known ss percent Consistent revenue stream that•, a_ways positive Cashflow that's a very different type of debt to e ake on. MR. MILLER. No question. No question. Okay. But we had a sewer bond debt here a while back and I'll be quite honest about it, the sewer bond revenue did not meet the debt, okay, all Che time. And we had Co move money around to pay it. IC didnIt always meet the debt. MR. ANfJERSON: Fair enough. Paul. MR. LOVESTR ! well, I've listened while Oan spoke for five minutes and Steve for five and John for 15. And I'd like to speak if I can Co some of the Cssues chat have been raised. Number one, I don't believe there's a mandate out there, although I— heard Chat. I've been out there during this campaign also and spoke Co dozens of people and with—L exception I couldn't find a person Chat wanted to get into the Florida Power - into the power business. No one wanes to get in it. They did a survey in Casselberry and 69 percent of the people said, let's not get into the business. They've done a telephone survey of super voters in Casselberry and 69 percent respond to, we don C want to gee in the p—h—Id people during campaigns say they r A r r weren t -- did— want to buy either. A11 of a sudden it became a me, coo. Ana nwo Candidates said they didn't want eo buy Florida Power and it became a me, too and Cwo more sara they did wane to bvy Florida Power. And ail of a sudden now It seems like it s changing. MR. —DY: Are you talking about the City of Longwood? MR. LOFESTRAMD: I'm talking the Clty of Longwood where I heard me, I-- I don't want to buy it either. MR. BDNDY: You didn't hear me, Coo, coming from me, Mr. Loyestrand. MR. LORESTRRMD: I don't want Co buy it either. MR. AMDERSOM. Mow, gentlemen -- MR. LOVESTRAMD. Please let me speak. we are already getting -- and everybody keeps talking about — percent that we re getting. We re not. We rs getting six percent plus we re getting a een percent utility tax after the first two or 3 kilowatt hours. It's much more than sax percent without risk. We are crazy to go after it. Then, secondly, if we pursue going after it rn arbitration, we may not have the option of r r t rming that referendum Chat you talk about. It may be the people that will say let's have I referendum now before we spend the money instead of let s have a referendum after we spene $a00,000 on arbitration. That can come at any time, a And this City has, 1s it 100 days or 90 days; if the signatures came to we have 90 or 100 days to hold I referendum. So we may not have Chat option of timing when a referendum will be. And I'd like to hear the attorney and the administrator say it because I've never heard them say against it, that I keep hearing reassurances from Dan and Steve that we re going to have a referendum but I believe I heard John and Richard cond—t need a referendum if we buy by sort MR. ANDEREON: [Nods head affi—ti—lyj --hum. MR. LOVESTR-C: I don't agree with that. MR. MILLER. I don't either. MR. LOVESTRAND: I talked to Gary Massey, an attorney who doesn't agree with that, cut what is your statement on that? Hav y u gone back and are ready to rssae a formal opinion on chat? :7 r , 6 MR. —R: I don't chink 11— 1— publicly said one —y 11 the other. C have in with people said that the —y our th—ttt is --y from any I.— —id be interpretedsourceiRil'di ii, I —d. eo mean any Eut also when you get into legal matters, Y. have t. 1—k It the 1,Ra.1-ill intent when that was drafted and passed —t it, I Chink, truly meane was ----d by City f—ib and City And I think b—It we — M. through this, you'd probably have it have I judge decid, whether it meane y.0 had t. have I referendum. However, beyond that I chink that it would It, wrong to not have 1 referendum. and I would whether you Could legally or not lb—... — —t encumbering City —d, a judge could I think, one, it would probably be political people —d t, decide. R. I don't think lhll.'. — I. issue amongst — to this room saying lit the P—PlI speak on she issue hIth— they had MR. LOVERTR— : S, then MR. --i— Well, —i r MR. LOVESTRAND: - rt s a mateer of taming, if 2 could get the floor back. And i am of the opinion that we — pushed, too, just like they've pushed. MR. MILLER. Um -hum. MR. LOVESTRAND: We — pushed. And I believe -- I believe we re at the end of the pushing in my own opinion. S donut think we can push them for any more. 2 think we better grab while we can. I m of the opinion that it s a pretty good deal. Thank you. MR. ANDERSON: I'd just like to answer the one question. From what I've heard from Richard about, you know, encumbrance and which and where, to me it puts you sgssarely in the gray area. Where one guy can argue it one way and another guy can argue it another way. And, you know, you said you've got a gny, oh, no, you I — It. And Co me that's where you just say, you know who=, the right think to do -- because there is ambiguity - is to remove the ambiguity and just go with the best course of what the people decide. So, I mean, I don't think that's ever been an r r MR. LOVE,STRAND: But the charter issue doesn't even speak of encumbrances. It speaks only to spending money. It s speaks to spending money. MR. MILLER: Not -- MR. MAINGOT: City money. MR. MILLER. This Ching almost went to court the last tine. IC almost did. And I m telling you -- MR. ANDEREOM: But the whole -- by whole point is -- MR. TAYLOR: It'. a non -issue. MR. ANDERSON. -- because it, -- can be conceived of even as a gray area because iC s not black and white absolutely yes you can go ahead and do this. Ther— no way that this Commission would go ahead and do that. I mean - MR. MILLER: I hope not. MR. LOVESTRARC: I hope not. MR. TAYLOR: And in my opinion, even if it was, if you were fairly certain -- MR. ANDERSOM: Well, that's a big enough -- MR. TAYLOR: E— if you were fairly certain that you could g— it without a referendum, I don't think it would be wise to do that. r MR. ANDCRSON. Okay. So if this were building Consensus that -- and I haven't heard you I,, weigh in again on this yet, though, that arbitration rs bad. We do not want eo ao dawn I'm not convinced that we really are getting I good deal from them. One of my major concerns that I was reminded of tonight when I was looking It Richard's Cover letter as part of the settlement, they want the City to drop all legal It t a on against Florida Power and to sign on the dotted line and just be at the mercy of higher Courts and just wa at our tune and hone that ehi nqs turn out favorably. There's nothing in there that says Florida Bower will stop their legal challenges against the City. And that was my point at the last meeting MR. LOVESTRAND: What's good for one vs good for the other. '1 go along with that. they will conttnue to appeal. Now, I understand that Wtnter Park is a different City and that they're going t appeal that Court, you know, tnat Court Case. That's fine. But they're still continuing to appeal the 3odge'e ruling that said you have to scare collecting the 460-something-thousand. And that to me was a major point. I mean, I can -- that's why I was willing to say, we'll be at the mercy of the courts for the i00 because that's a bigger legal appeal than us. And okay, fine. BUC the 462, that's their choice 11 continue appealing Chat against the City. MR. MILLER: I agree. MR. ANDERSON: And so Chat -- MR. —STRAND: But they will stop that action if there's an agreement. MR. ANDERSON: But they have said they would MR. BTNDY: No. They didn't say that. That's not what they sa id. MR. —EST— Oh, okay. We will stop it by stopping it from increase as what I means. MR. TAYLOR: Well, we won t have the 462 to spend. MR. ANDERSON: And see my point -- MR. L—STRAND. We done have it _n escrow. MR. ANDR,RSON: And my point was chat I asked chose ladies last time, I said: if we agree eo sign this, will you agree [o stop pursuing Che 462 And they said. No. we can t because our attorneys say we cal". And as you just said, wh — good for one is wha— good for the other. I believe that any settlement that we chose has to have both sides drop - and your words in regarding eha current issue because there was some wording in here that said all future actions, which I don't think is prudent because there could be something ten years from now from -- actions. IC just means it would settle everything up until the day you sign. MR. TAYLOR: And there may be something outside of the Florida Power Franchise. They could have dumped 50 harrels of -- MR. ANDERSON: That was my point. MR. TAYLOR. -- old fuel oil in the back. 2'm being facetious. MR. ANDERSON. But to say -- MR. TAYLOR: Eut [hey could have done any kind of damage to the City unrelated to this and I wasp t willing t0 give up that even though I don't Chink there is anything out there. Ma. AtmERSON. so my point is -- MR. TAYLOR: You'd be foolish t0 give up -- MR. MILLER: How can we do that? MR. ANOEREON. the current -- MR. LOVESTRAND: They have a reason .or that, MR. MILLER. Wh — your suggestion? MR. TAYLOE: And then by the way that's one If the things -- MR. MILLER: How can we word it - Ma. TAYLOR. -- we did discuss. MR. MILLER: -- where -- if they wan -- if they -- if we lose this appeal, we can get our 460,000 bucks, how can we word it that way? Ma. TAYLOR: They won t do it that way because they— saying -- MR. LOVESTRANo: It's related. MR. TAYLOR. The only reason the way they can do it would be to pony up the 460 right now and give it all to us right now and then if we 1— MR. MILLER. We don't even have it. MR. MAiNOOT. We dome. 53 MR. TAYLOR. No. They'd give he 460 that's just a gift to build the park, towards he new police et ati" -- MR. BANDY: Franchise fee -- MR. LOVESTRAMD: Th—e the 150 and -- MR. —MY: The 230. MR. LOVESTRARD. -- the 230, MR, MILLER: And the 230. MR. TAYLOR. Me. But 2 m saying instead o_ 230, they'd give 460 -- MR. ANOERSON: Yes. MR. TAYLOR' -- and he, if we lose at the Supreme Court level, they could ask for that back. Then you'd -- and I would just say this by the way, is part of the Rile and take of negotiating, I would not recommend that you accept 230. And I m not tellinq Yel -- you can say I want the full Flo and ehe — [ail] or whatever you wane to he. But 1 wouldn't just take what they're nfferinq And having been through many meditations and settlement negotiations, I think the Commissioner Miller ae correct that they are concerned that we could head in the direction of -- MR. MILLER: Yes. They are. MR. TAYLOR; -- arbitration. And partially because I think I know that, you know, Caseelherry is Leaded that way. Winter Park probably will buy it And I chink that city is moxe headed cowards that even Casselberry even though they aren e as far down the road. There ie a concern there and I think to walk away just with accepting the 230, I wouldn't recommend it. And I think they would pay -- they should and will pay more. MR. MILLER. All right. I think that we need MR. 'TAYLOR: But, again, that's my re commendaC sort. MR. MILLER. Right. MR. TAYLOR: It is up to you gentlemen to decide not me. MR. MILLER: I think we need our $460,000. MR. ANDERSON. Okay. So, Steve, you asked -- MR. MILLER: Tha['s what I think. MR. LOVESTRANE: They wont take it. MR. ANDERSON: -- how do you get there. How about this -- MR. MILLER: I beg your pardon? MR. ANDERSON: How about -- MR. LOVEETRAND: I don't believe they can take that -- they wi11 take it. MR. ANDERSON: How about -- MR. LOVEBTRASO: And the I-- is ehey— saying it weakens their case on she ']30 [sic]. MR. MILLER: well, maybe they can. But - MR. MAINGOI. But that's their problem, not I. MR. MILLER: Now, what I'm saying is -- -t— me, one eetond. MR. ANDERSON: No. That's not right. MR. MILLER: One second. I Chink that they can make an agreement, okay, you can counter offer instead of Chem giving — $230,000 the counter offer will be the $460,000 towards a proj ece oI whatever, okay, as part of the setelemene agreement. Don t even mention the other, okay. MR. BUNDY: But we ve already got it -- MR. MILLER. You know what I m saying? MR. —ECR: Plus the ISO. MR. ANnERSON: Okay. [.et me - _ Chink I -- MR. LOV£STRAA-D: Richard feels we'll get it 0. a anyhow -- MR. ANDEREOM. -- agree with Richard. MR. LOVESTMAND: -- with the Court. MR. MILLER: Well, we probably will. If we do get it, we re even. Okay. If we don't get it, we keep our money. MR. EMERY: 'hays a E—1 deal then we re getting right now. MR. —MOT: Thae's right. MR. MILLER. No. It's not. MR. ANDERSON! Steve -- MR. LOVESTRAND: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: -- let me -- MR. EUNDY: _eah. It te. MR. DRAG.: One ae a time. MR. ANEERSOM: Gentlemen, let me Clarify if I think what Steve _s -- MR. MILLER. Sure. MR. ANDEREON: -- saying here because I think I understand it. Their offer today is SI50,000 cowards a project and they'll pony up an additional 230,000. SD basically what they're saying is Chey will offer - $380,000 today and the 460 encumbered and Climbing that's -- we might get that in addition to or we might not. And the 770 we might get it or we might not. But no matter what we'll get 300. And so what you're saying it let's change that to 150 plus 460 -- MR. MILLER: And -- MR. ANDERSON: -- guaranteed. MR. MILLER. Correct. MR. ANDERSON: No matter what happens we hold MR. MILLER. And if we win, they give us 770 and I- - TAYLOR: No. MR. MILLER: You I— f,— MR. EDNDY: 466. MR. ANDERSON. NO. They give us 770 -- MR. LOVESTRAND. 462 I think it it, MR. ANDERSON: -- plus ?62. MR. MAI ELT. 962. MR. ANDERSON: And we ve already kept the original money. MR. MILLER. Okay. All right. MR. TAYLOR: Yart of -- MR. ANDERSON. Th—s where I thought Mt. were going at. MR. MILLER: Yeah. That's fine. MR. TAYIAR: Part of, by the way - and scand to quote -- MR. MILLER: Or you could go 770 and 230, whatever you decide, okay. It's all the same amount, okay. MR. TAYLOR: And if we wtn the case, which it not a guarantee htt I think we will and they gave you 460 plus the 150, Chen you're going to make some money off it. But in my opinion the city ought to make some money off it for what -- they admitted they went down the wrong path A. MR. MILLER: That's a fact. MR. -OR: B, we re taking a risk that if we lose that suit, we ve lost all that money forever. And, 3 (sic] they're buying out the fact that we re not going to go co a rbitratron. That's worth a heck of a lot to my opinion. MR. MILLER. well, you can tell them that we are going to arhicration if they don't pony up now. I mean - MR. ANOERSON: But -- MR. LOVESTRANO: Arbitration costs us much more I- it cows them. MR. MILLER. Okay. That's fine. MR. LOVESTRAND: They've got the attorneys already -- MR. MAINGOT. We re talking 30 yeare now. MR. LOVESTRAND: MR. ANDERSON: But, Steve, okay, so if we were to ask -- MR. MILLER. You can tell Chem that there's ehx'ee commissioners MR. ANDERSON:-- MR. MILLER. -- here thac wane to yo to arbitration, okay -- MR. ANDERSON: If we were to ask for -- MR. MILLER: -- if they don't like this. MR. ANDERSON: -- - plus -- MR. MILLER: That will scare the pants off of them. I'm telling you. MR. AMDERSON: -- 150 -- MR. MILLER: Because they are scared Of that idea to start with. MR. TAYLOR: If they'll end up losing -- excuse me, if you look at -- and even I cold them when we met, how it., would it -- how much revenue from the City plItits would it take to pay the ]]0 and the 460. MR. MAINGOT. one year. MR. TAYLOR: And it s about a year. It s not It— If you qo to arbitration, good or bad, aybt the City makes the worse decision it s ever made in history or whatever, they still don't own III system any more and they will lose millions and millions of dollars. MR. MILLER. They sure will. They will. MR. MA'1NGOT: That's right. And we lase the opportunity of getting it. MR. LOVESTRAND: And we will lose more millions of dollars. MR. MILLER: Change -- MR. MILLER: Then I m - MR. ANDEREON: Okay. Gentlemen, let me - MR. MILLER. Change the figure of 230 to F60 ana mope eo aeetlamenc. MR. ANDEREON: I'd like to focus on to 150 plus 460. That puts it -- or 462 or whatever. MR. M'I LIRE: Exactly. MR. ANDERSON: It puts us at $612,000. MR. MILLER: Right. Unchallenged. MR. AMDERSON. Unchallenged in our pockets today. And if ehey lose, they pay us 170 and 160 whatever it ends up bein, whatever the funds are just become unencumbered and we move on from e here. MR. MILLER. That's fine. MR. AN➢ERSON: But if they win for some reason, we still keep 600-and-something. MR. MILLER: The 460 and the I — MR. AN➢ERSON. And the 150. MR. MILLER: Right. MR. AN➢ERSON. Then we would keep Chat in our pockets and juac move on. Now, that makes some sense to me as a way of saying, settle up now and the dollar Value doesn't go up. MR. MILLER: What do you chink? MR. LOVESTRAN➢: They're going to sat around their table and they're going co say the same Ching. Those guys say - are threatening arbitration, let them go. Ie s going to cost them 900,000 to arbie race. It's only going to cost us 50,000 because our atCorneys have been through it. We don't have Chat much preparation. MR. —OR: So have ours. MR. MILLER. So have ours. Li-th, let me tell you, what can it cosC us r to buy the system, ? —Iion bucks? Maybe. MR. ANDERSON More. MR. LOVESTRAND: Wait a minute. It will be over double what those -- our studies said because Casselberry's was over double their study. MR. MILLER: Well, Cass. lberry's was 11 million. MR. MAINGOT: It started at 70 to 11 to MR. ANE2RSON: Wait a minute. MR. MILLER: Well, what was Casselberry's? what did it did up as. MR. MAINGOT: 79 to 99 to RE — MR, IAVESTRAND: Wait a minute. The feasibility study said 11 -- MR. MILLER: 22.5 million. MR. LOVESTRAND: -- in Casselberry and the arbitration said 22, And it'. yet to go to the Public Service Commission and yet to go -- where it will be raised two mar. times. MR. MILLER: well, you're right. But I .... 1b... y's five times the size of this city. MR. LOVESTRAND: No. MR. MAINGOT. That's right. MR. MILLER: Aren't they? MR. MASNGOT: Approximately about twice. MR. LOVESTRAND: We are about 60 percent. They're less than double us. They're 25,ODD and MR. MILLER: So what do you think, Sohn? We haven't heard from you. What do you think it would cost to buy the system her.? MR. M NCOT: S to 11 million. MR. —0: We11, I mean, if you look at the study they give ycu two secs D£ numbers, worse I— good case scenario. When you get in between a bunch of arbierators, you know I dome know. It definitely would be less than what Florida Power - MR. LOVESTERM➢. 18 million. MR. MILLER. You think that much? MR. ORAGO. No. I don't think it would be that much. MR. MAZNGOT: I to 11. MR. —DY: If take -- MI. Mayor -- Mr. Mayor, Z m sorry, force of habit, Mr. Commissioner, if you take Florida Power the arbitration numbers and you take [he figures that you just threw out of 60 percent, our figures we should be theoretically, it you"e just going to get mathematically, 60 percent of 22 million. 64 MR. LOVESTRAND: 22. MR. I-: So there's no way that could be is Chen. MR. MILLER. We really to be honest with you, are not that far from payfng cash for this thing. Okay. We're not that It, off. Okay. And you might briny that point up to them. MR. T-OR. Cash, from where? MR. MILLER: Okay. MR. LOVESTRAND. 13-and-a-half, 13-and-a- quarter. MR. MILLER. Okay. We re not chat far away from paying cash Eor this. MR. LOVESTRAND: Then by the time it goes it to the Rublic Service Commission -- MR. MILLER: It would break us but, you know, i mean, it could be done. 1, from money derived E rom all sources, but the thing is it just -- you know, you need to impress upon them that they need o settle. MR. ANDERSON: Eut here's my question, Steve, and you've brought this up so many times. They know Chat this Commission has no intent of ever buying the system. MR. MILLER. 'dell, maybe they need to know different now. MR. AARERSON. Well, and see -- okay. MR. MILLER. okay. MR. MAERSON: Now, you get to where I was trying to say in the beginning of how do we impress upon them that we need to sign Che agreement now -- MR. MILLER. You tell them. MR. ANDERSON: -- and not keep waiting. MR. MILLER: And tell them in no uncertain tex okay. MR. TAYLOR: And, you know -- MR. ANOEREON. Lee Butch go, please. MR. TAYLOR: Okay, Eorsy. MR. BUNDY. Fi— of all, —v hody keeps saying we ve told them we don't want to buy the system. We — never told them that. I don't even chink Steve has said that. Prom the dais we have said -- now, watt a minute, excuse me, we have said we don't want to be in the electric business. And that is a difference of us being in the elect sic business and buying the system is two separate points. And you're t.Iki.g about we jump -- you know, we ve flip-flopped on the -- in the campaign and I beg to differ. what I said in the campaign6 is what I have said all along. Is Chat 2 do not want us to the electric business. we will not be hiring lineman. We would not be buying trucks. But that fs a separate issue from buying the system. What I wanted and what I still want as what we ve always had. If we re going to do that, if they wane to do Chat, why do we need even a new franchise agreement? Let's just chang, the dates on the old one and to make us whole. To give us the money that they owe us. They owe us 770-some thousand dollars in franchise fees or whatever the accsuntant has come up with. They owe us $462,000 Chat we can t encumber. They owe us a hundred and -- attorneys fees, plus consuleant fees Chat we spent on a feasibility study that we would not have done, if they had done a year -and -a - half ago what they are willing to do today. MR. MILLER: oh, I agree with that. MR. MILLER. 1 agree with that. MR. —LOR. Actually it may be a lot less. MR. MILLER: Yeah. Probably.67 MR. BENDY: A. f— as him being ..t having the threat of arbitration, it they make that mastake, then they make that --Ie and made other —takes in this all along. Blt III thing -- it 1s is whether we It, vt or not, a debt —111—d1l. You -1 Richard .,d Che administrator 1 1-1 position i,. it d—ilt —It— what their P-itlis on a - 11 "It", what our position 11 and our posicion has been all 1.19 that there would be FL rendum before any decision was —de I. this. MR. MILLER: Oh, yeah. MR. BIJERY: And we have 11-11 -- III it 11 have said it that there would be . referendum. MR. LOVESTERME: And we Eight to 9, R., the —f--d— right now. MR. EERDY: Then -- MR. MILLER: Oh, that —11d really tt.9 them; wouldn't it.I — EEN— Id the .1h— thi,,, know, as far 11 th, legalities if it, If whether we would I— it to —1-1 it, Y-11 in —1 estate. Ha you t-1 heard of . joint buy/sell? —1 would p-- the City from buying 68 it from Florida Power and have a simultaneous closing and selling it - Florida Power & Light with a franchise agreemene Co our liking or to ouc or to Wrnter Park or Casseib—y or o, you know, some town up in the Panhandle that, you know, wants to gee in the electric system? MR. LOVESTRAND: Because our referendum would cover that, too, because it talks about spend or how it will be spent. MR. —CI: Our referendum or - MR. LOVESTRAMD: The past one. MR. BUNDY: -- your referendum? MR. LOVESTRAND: The old referendum would cover Chat because it says: Will not spend or a ilow to be spent or from any source. MR. —DY: If we sell it the same day we buy r[, e re not going in It — MR. MILLER: I don't chink it matters. MR. LOVBSTRAN➢: It doesn't matter. MR. BDNDY: But it doesn't matter MR. —ER—ND: we re allowing money to bt spent. MR. BINDY: See, you did the same thing in the election. You said the City wanes to buy the electric system. We vt never said that. None 11 69 us have ever said chat. MR. ANDERSON. Let's make sure -- MR. —ESTRACL: And no one eve_ said that the City did. It said [hat the City Commissioeers voted to sue for the right to purchase. MR. BUNDY: But the other thing -- MR. ANDERSON: Gentlemen -- MR. MAINGOT: We voted to defend our rights. MR. ANDERSON: Gentlemen, hold on. MR. MAINGOT. Big difference. MR. ANDERSON; Don't let this go into sonal stuff because a lot of -- MR. MAINGOT: Let's speak the truth then. MR. ANDERSON: No. Let's .speak business. MR. BUNDY: Let me continue on this. The other thing that we need to look at is if we don't ask for it, we are for sure not going to get it. And we need, I chink -- and i m going to vote ayainse anything Chat does not ask Chem to accept [hem paying the Etas out of their pockets. I mean, that's -- I will vote against that over and over again. MR. TAYLOR: D. the 770? MR. BUNDY: 0�1 all of it. It needs to come out of their pocke_s as a business decision. And �o you can say I know you said that okay what's right is right. BIt what the judges may rote rru.I i.s -- the judges may interrupt, you know, one way or the ocher as to those sorts of things. But, you know, I think that -- we started on this back 11 months with what was right and 1. think we need to continue doing what we chink is right and what is right for the people. And I m not going to vote -- I mean, I would be against that does not include them -- MR. MAiNcoi. eayi ny. like it will be out of our hands if we don't have is in the ne9o[iaeions. it will be in the Public service commission s hands. BIt if it s part of the negotiations if they agree to that, they won t be able to bec�vse they would have negotiated it. MR. —LOR. .and let to just say chat not saying that's right or wrong. And I Chink it's -- well, I will. I think it s right what yo — saying that it shouldn't be backoharged. However, Z think if you're going to hold firm to that, it will he a deal breaker. MR. BIMDY: Well, no. MR. TAYLOR. That they won t. agree to that and -- that's one area you may -- all the other numbers fall into place, you may or may not ..It Co consider saying, all right, we'll let the Public Service Commission decide, And that doesn't stop everyo e in this room from going to Tallahassee when that hearing takes place and jumping and stomping on the table, saying I don't want my cons Cituents paying fox this. And donut -- if you don't chink that won t have some influence, it would. MR. MILLER. Oh, yeah. I know. MR. MAINGOT We shall take two bus loads, if necessary up there. I guarantee you that. MR. MILLER: Well, we can. We can do that, John. And we re willing to. MR. BENDY: And I Chink -- and that needs eo It not as a sticking point in the negoeiat ions, but that needs to be the position of this City Commission. And if it comes to Chat, if Che Supreme Court rules 1n our favor and Florida Power says, well, okay, we re going to the Public S.—I Commission, I do —t in the agreement one of the r OF 7 sticking points is that it would be spread oue. yi MR. TAYLOR: I'll agree t0 that. MR. LOVEBTRANp: I agree. MR. BANDY: And that I think that it would need to be this Commission's official stance that we will -- that we w'i 11 argue against with ehe Public Service Commission. MR. MILLER: Yeah. MR. —RY: And that we wi11 do whatever is reasonable, you know, for the Commission to do on behalf OC the citizens. MR. TAYLOR. Yeah. Because the only thing about spreading over the five years, they know and they acknowledge to me for them to send orte bill for the whole amount would be a public relit ions nightmare and suicide for them. They wouldn't I. that whether you wanted t0 Or — because it would Chi, particular issue. I don't believe Chat this City has any authority to say how and where that money will come from. But we can -- because that's going to be decided by people higher up the Foot chain than us as you've said. However, we can, as a City Commission, say it rs our policy that we will do what we can do to ?S make sure that it as not collected from the people. And if that includes us as a City Commission going to the Public Service Commission and speaking as a City, that is the City, position Chat you not grant this for the following MR. MILLER: Right, MR. ANDERSON: I Chink we can cake that position and let Florida Power know chat we re Is that something that we would be in agreement with? MR. MILLER. Absolutely by me. about Chat, Dan. We re suing for a franchise fee; correct. $?�3,000 worth of uncollected franchise fees. Chat as a hold -over tenant that needed to have been collecting that. MR. LOVESTRAND: Franchise fees. What are E —hi- fees? MR. LOVESTR ; Okay I— But by definition they're a pass-Ihrovgh type. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. MR. LOVesTRAND: By definition, a franchise fee is money that the people pay and give to the City using Florida Power a., a mechanism. MR. MILLER: Right. MR. LOVESTRAND. so they don't pay franchise fees. A franchise fee is collected from Che people and handed to Florida Power. Bo for vs to go up and say, you can t collect them from the people, then we have to in a sense drop our .,it for franchise fees because that's what we re suing for. We are suing for franchise fees. We are suing for pass-throuyh taxes. Pass through or pass around tax. MR. MAINGOT: Did you I," them no[ to collect it. MR. LOVESTRAND: Yes. MR. MAINGOT: And they opted not eo do it to pressure us into signing their agreement. MR. A RSON: And that's what the judge -- MR. LOVESTRAND: Right. MR. MAINGOT: And Chat is what it s all about. �5 MR. LOVESTERAD And their principal is - and we "I disagree or agree. Their principal is without a franchise agreement, they don't have to collect the franchise fee. That's what the Court said on the west -- MR. MILLER: And I understand. MR. TAYLOR. Yeah. But the Fifth District Court of Appeals said it was MR. MAINGOT: 'that's right. MR. MILLER. I understand their pos=_t ion. MR. MAINOOT: That's right. MR. MILLER: But please remember it's their position. MR. MAINCOT: I know. MR. MILLER: It's not necessarily our position. Okay. I know that Chose taxes that the people would have paid anyway. You're absolutely right. but I agree one hundred percent with Dan, okay. Ne as a citizen in this City and as a Comm.I.ss ion member have every right [o go to the Public service commission and jump up and down and We have every right 10 do chat if they try to get this money Ou= Of our cxel zens' pockets. I MR. BUNOY. But I think that we -- MR. MILLER: -- we have every right to ao that. MR. BUNOY. - as a Commission should lobby on behalf of the cleazens also. MR. MAING— Yes. MR. MILLER. And I believe that we have every right [o do that. Okay. At any juncture that they're asking for a rate hike Or whatever. Okay. And I agree with all these guys. We have a right to do that and should. And we should let Chem know as part of this negotiation that we Intend to do Chat. I don't have any problem with that. But 1 stand by the $460,000 and the 150,000 and let's move to settlement. MR. ANOERSON: Okay. So can we -- because we re here to se policy. Can we agree that it will be this Commiasion's policy to ask Florida Power that that mocey comes out of their pocket. we understand that's not xn our control. But that should they go before the Public Se rvlce commission, e as a City Comm_ssron would speak with a unified voice in front of them saying this should not come of of the people. MR. MILLER: Absolutely. MR. ANDERSON: This .should come from their pocket. MR. MILLER: I agree with It,- - MAINGOT: I agree with that. MM. ANDERSON: Okay. MR. MAINGOT: And thty Ought to know that we will have repres entat>on there. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. So ehat's one isssse Chat we ve decided. NOw -- MR, —LOM: Of course, the truth of the matter es Chat we never brought up and you don't put it art the offer, you have the perfect 119ht to ds that whether it, it the agreement Or not. MR. MILLER: That's a fact. we don't have to put it in the offer. MR. ANDERSON: Rut I think it s important and this is -- the importance -- MR. RUNDY: That they know. MR. ANDERSON: -- Of this session it Chat as a City Commisaion we will decide not two —t— here and one v0 ice there. we have one voles that says this is the City COmmsss ion p ition. �8 MR. MZLLER: We're singing off the same page. MR. BUNDY: Correct. MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR.—IREON: So now we have the opeion with two tRings on CRe table and there might be more if someone wants to bring them up But they have offered to give us 150 plus 230 or something. Yeah. MR. —GOT: 231. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Steve s proposal is that we ask for 150 plus whatever today's dollar value is and say you give us Chose two sums and we sign this a9—me nC and no matter what happens that money is ours and we re -- MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR. —RION; -- at the mercy of the Court on the other dollar values. MR. MILLER: Right. MR. A RSON. So we could either get bonus money or some money. MR. MILLER: Or zippo. That's right. MR. TAYLOR: Why don't you say it may have gone P. It goes up every time a bill goes out and is collected. But I Chink you'd be better off saying it s eithez 160 or 500 11 525 Or -- MR. MILLER. 460 is fine. I mean, _et s nc over complicate - MR. AMDERSOM: And that's where you make it easy. MR. BIIMOY: igh[. MR. —EGOT: But the details within the also have to be -- MR. MAIMGOT: Right about? The things that you've brought up. MR. TAYLOR. Gne of the things that Gail Simpson said to me, though, rs if we come to an agreement ana e."e was tniaming at the z.. figure, which I, again, wouldn't recommend, that she didn't wane that with a lot of other things to my letter. But she didn't want to see things such as the iollin5 option and scuff being added. MR. MA--M — Oh, sure they don't. They don't want to give us an option later on. MR. MILLER. I m not rn Eavor of a rolling option. t 80 MR. MAINGOT: Think about it before you say that. MR. MILLER: I know that. I -- MR. MAINGOT: They've had it before and they eliminated because they wane to have a compleee hold On it. MR. MILLER: I understand how you feel but I think we need to -- MR. MAINGOT: Not how I feel. MR. MILLER: Well, if we re going to do this -- MR. ANDERSON: Negotiating. MR. MILLER: Yeah. MR. AMEERSON: We can t ask for the moon, we ask Eor something legit. MR. MILLER. Yeah. Sure. MR. TAYLOR: What we don't want to do is part -- whatever our goad Edith negotiating is, we need to right now throw with them what you really want because what I don't want to do is if they did -- and I don't think they'll agree t0 In' but they'd be smart to in my opinion. Eut whether they re smart enough to do that, I don't know. They agree to it. And then when they come back, okay, we ve got that, now, throw fa r the hook out for the rolling option. Y." can t keep adding things. MR. M NGOT: Right. MR. MILLER: Right. MR. TRYLOR. Eecause I know when I m negotiating for clients outside the city and you agree to something chen they turn around ask you for something else, you finally cell them Cake a hike. I don't even wane to Calk CO you any ore. You can C keep adding. Once they agree to something, you can t come back and say, oh, okay. That's fine. Now, give us something else. MR. MRINGOT: You see -- could I just say something? The rolling option there, right, is a way to Cell Florida Power and Chey are going to call chemselves the Progress Company, right, that w maintain Che reign during the 30-year period, every ten years the option comes up. I haven't see anything within the franchise agreement that really holds them accountable in terms of Che quality cf cheir service, righ, MR. MILLER: But it s not our job to d0 that. MR. MRINGOT: Just a second. Not our job. r MR. MILLER: No. It's the Public Service Commission's job to do that not -- MR. MRINGOT: Public Service Commission's? MR. MILLER: Right. MR. MAINGO'P: Public Service Commission's? MR. MILLER: Yes. MR. MAINGOT: Why is it then do they have a $9'1 per IGGD kilowatts charge, right, and when they went to the Public Service Commission, they didn't go for a seduction, the Public Service Commission brought them back down to 92. How come they got to 97 in the first .instance. where was the Public Service Commission to prevent that from happening? Where was the Public Service Commission. MR. MILLER: Well, evidently they had justified the expense before. MR. LOVESTRAND: The only thing i.. if we municipalize, the people won't even have a Public Service Commission to go Co. MR. MAINGOT: But a[ least we can cone rol -- MR. LOVESTRAN➢: We'll have nothing. MR. MAINGOT: No. They'll have us. We will have the elected officials to control -- MR. MILLER: That's worse. 29 r r MR. LOVES'SRAND: The only thing worse Chan big corporation is big government. MR. M NG— well, S can bring people that I have met, right, who have moved it- this City from smaller cities who have the same apprehension above munc nal izacton. I can bring them at our next meeting and they will cell you Chat they have never turned back since that has taken place. And that is the honest to goodness truth. And S m not saying that's where we ought to go. But again, as Dar: has said we have given chess people the idea that we will never threaten them with anything. So therefore they're going to Cry their bu11y tactics on us all the time. Right. MR. MILLER: I Chink we re beyond all that now, though, really. see some teeth inside of there. Right. We had something like in favored nation - chit favored I-- we had this our previous work set s.i on on July the 9th which gave us some teeth inside of there. It's not in this new one that's presented; MR. ANDERSON: The one says if another city r e r gees s better one - MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. ANDERSON: -- than us, e automatically get the same good deal. MR. MAINGOT: And also we reserve ehe right -- MR. MILLER: Buc that was only with regard to buyout. MR. MAINGOT. No, sir. No, sir. MR. MILLER: Okay. I believe that's what Chat meant. MR. MAINGOT: No, sir, oo back and read it. MR. TAYLOR: It went beyond that. MR. MAINGOT: IC s right there highlighted for you to read it. MR. TAYLOR: I Chink -- Altamonte Springs is sitting back licki n9 their chops waiting t0 see what happens in all -- MR. MAINGOT: And they left it out of there. And it goes co .say chat if they negotiate, right, and we reserve the right - this is under this here. [Indicating] It's right here if you can see it - eo amend this ordinance antl co have the same duration. in oe}:er words, a change in duration, —I, we want to come from 30 years co make it 20 years. I'm no[ saying we re going to do it. But we reserve the right to do it. Let us give ourselves the future to Florida Power because they —I the I— that are looking at millions and millions dollars of profits. That'e why they're fighting the way they are. Right. So let us not rush to hand everything to Chem. MR. RNDERSON: Okay. There's Cwo issues thac I see here. If we put a proposal oue along the lines of what St—e suggested with give us the 960 and the 150 now oat of your own pocket for a community Eire station, what what -- if we were to do that, to me there's a significant cloud hanging over because we could do that and then limit ourselves to the issues that a_e raased in. Richard's letter. And say these are the things we re going to ne91tiate, we re not going to ask for -- because chat is an important point that we don't start asking for a lot of other sluff as part of our good faith. 25) MR. RIDERS... I.Y.OIn my opinion the r r r 86 simplese and best thing Co do is to take the old franchise agreement with those dollar figures and say: Would you take that? MR. -OR: You mean the old one ehae exp'i red? MR. ANOERSON. Yeah. They'd probably sco=f at that because i= s too simple and clear and easy. MR. TAYLOR. Yeah. well, it s -- MR.-ERSON: Hut if they don't agree, where does that leave us. It leaves us with either take, you know, a whole bunch less, which I m not sure that a majority of Chi. Commission is going to be in favor ot, or we have to go eo And is there -- MR. MILLER. They'll give us the money. MR. ANOERSON. -- any middle ground? MR. TAYLOR: Not at this Came I would say. I mean, it they come back with something else, Chen we'll meet again -- MR. BUNEY. To be honest -- MR. TAYLOR: -- and talk. MR. -DY. -- I think that the middle ground is what we ve just discussed right now. That's [he middle ground. MR. MAINGOT; With a meaningful franch.i se MR. BLINDY! Well, we hill— ll,th really -- there's still another point or III an the franchise lg-- that — not happy with 11 that I d.— like IhIl -- but, I —, II far as the setelement, if they 91 for that, yeah, but that's 9.1 t. b,, — if that's our bottom line, that's our bottom line and we 9l, t., you R.— -- fa, I. — —Rl—td, if that's whae we want, that's what we WItt. MR. —ERSON: okay. I —R, we need t. establish some --what is the bottom line and -It are I I—Rq fit? You —1, are we going to say, all light, our III— line is 150 Pill the 230 that you .Eft—d today plus -- MR. MJIINGOT 462. MR. AMDR—N: - whatever P—il— thing Y..— 9—h ... But we really would .1-1 10 have the 150 pill the 460 p1- I modified -- if this. MR. LOVE— : If y., —y that, y-- 1-1 r r ol MR. nNneasoN: I unaerecana. MR. MRINGOT: But that's our bottom line? That's a waffle. MR. RNDERSON. But what are we going [o say is our bottom line? MR. MILLER: Our bottom line is just what I said, — plus — plus -- MR. BUNDY: 'Chen we need eo ask for -- you need to ask for more than your bottom line then. I thick that's -- because that's the only way I— gives you any -- gives Richard -- otherwise -- MR. MILLER: But that's exactly -- MR. BUNDY: -- Richard's negotiating room is gone. MR. —NGOT: P_nd the nine percent interest. MR. TRYLOR: Well, there's two ways of doing it, too. You re right. MR. BUN➢Y: This is it, cake it or leave it. MR. TRYLOR. Yov re right. You can ask for more than you really will take and then come back eo a Sower figure. Or you can do like y u do sometimes with negotiations. Say we ve calked back and forth, this is the bottom line. non t e 01 s9 even come back to us, we done want to hear about i[. If you can t pay that, don't give us a counter offer. MR. BIINEY. Keep moving. MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR. TAYLOR. And just say this is the bottom line. Sometimes with insurance adjusters, I'll go I'm done with this volley back and forth. If you pay this amount of money, my client will go away, if not we'll see you at the courthouse. And you stick to MR. L—MTRANE. When we talk about the meaningful franchise, cant we use the Oviedo contract which 'TI. Cloud negotiated as a meaningful contract. ThI— what -- basically what they're offering us here is ehe Oviedo MR. BENDY. I don't. Because I'm not happy with that. MR. MAINGOT: I veto that one. MR. TAYLOR. I would say -- MR. MILLER. I don't have a problem with the Oviedo contract. It s fine. What's wrong with rt. It does have a roll inq option? MR. MAINGOT. Have you read -- MR. ANDERSON: Genelemen, let Richard speak It response to chat. MR. TAYLOR: in response to that, when it comes to the issue of stranded costs and Tom Cloud's opinion has changed after the Casselberry in the Casselberry arbitration means you can't have the word stranded costs it there. Will they ever be able to get it 10, 20, 30 years from now. I don't Chink they will for var i—h reasons that we don't need t0 get into now. ➢ut there are other things -- you know, the Gray, Harris firm it one 0f the best firms in this state or even country and they prepared that agreement for Oviedo. I looked through it and got pages of things that I would change. And, one, getting back eo the real basic thing Chat it says in it, they can put substations ,I 0f-way. Th.— ludicrous. I would I-- -- you know, I would never let that get by when I m reviewing something. MR. L—TRAND: They're not Calking just a r 0 transformer because Chat can be thought of as MR. MAINCOT: A substation. MR. TAYLDR. A substation. MR. LOVESTRAND: A substation usually mean.. many eransformers. MR. MAINGOT. IC a a building where they -- MR. BMNDY: 1t a a fenced -in area - MR. MILLER: I'm not sure that -- MR. MAINGOT. Which will feed the local distribution system. MR. MILLER. 'I don't know if that's true. MR. TAYLOR: They didn't agree with me when I brought it It. MR. MILLER: Really? MR. TAYLOR: Oh, yeah. They said: Well, sometimes we put them in [here. I said: If y want eo -- MR. LOVESTE— It's on a pole. MR. TAYLOR: No. If you want to put in a substation -- MR. MAINGOT: It's a building. MR. TAYLOR: -- it s usually something as big as this building or as big at this whole complex of buildings. You ga up -- MR. EUNDY: Right out here -- there's a seat.... is right up here MR, .— MR . LOVESTRANU: Mertle. MR. eU — -- 434 at Merle. MR. TAYLOR. Right. MR, 9UNUY: There's one ae 4— MR. TAY— That's a substation. Now, I told them if you want to put one it our right-of- way, come back and get your checkbook out, we might talk. ©ut for sax percent you're not doing Chat. MR. MAINGOT: 'That's right. That's right. MR. TAYLOR: And they didn't disagree. MR. MILLER. I can agree with that point. That's fine. MR. MAIN— what's why 1 said -- MR. TAYLOR- Hut I think Oviedo has agreed eo let them put substations in their right-of-ways. MR. MAINGOT. Fine. So we don't have to buy that. I say let us have -- lee us have with the dollar figure we re talking about and there's if's and buys and gray areas about it. And also that we have a franchise agreement that has some teeth .side of it and not patented off to anyone. Right. MR. ANDERSON. Okay. S yo ve raised a number of issues in this letter. If our thing es that we give you ehe instructions to negotiate through this list o£ items as best you can and then you can come back eo us and say, I was able [o get 20 percent of these things. I was not able Co get this one, which I Chink is substantial. We can accept or rejact et ehen. MR. MILLER. Um -hum. MR. TAYLOR: Yes. That's correct. MR. ANDEREON: That would Chen -- that's not a tn-your-face move to Florida Powe_ saying we re going to limit to these issues. We have concerns. You've been instructed to go do that. And you111 talk back and forth. And if it comes close, the commission would probably accept that. MR. TAYLOR: Rut that, of course, is after they agree to pay the —. — MILLER: Right, MR. TAYLOR: I don't really intend to talk to Chem about issue one until they came up -- MR. MILLER: No. MR. TAYLOR: Otherwise, what's the point? MR. AN➢ERSON: -- understand. MR. MILLER. They got to pay the 610. That's MR. AN➢ERSON: Eut where I'm driving this at Ie that we re going to cell Florida Power we re not going to come at you to add this and to add that and do this, but we ve given you the mandaee to negotiate this list of things. And as long as they come back with -- you <an come back with a report and say: yeah. They really were honest and dealt fairly and here's what I was able to get out the deal, can you accept chit? MR. TAYLOR: Right. MR.-ERSON. That's what I want eo drive at. That we'll limit what we re going eo negotiate with and then they can actually sit down and deal with -- [Whereupon, Mr. ➢rago leaves the mess ing room.[ MR. TEYLOR. Right. Ee cause out of five pages, there's things in here that have some real substance to 1t. And then there's a Ching in there for -- just to give you an example of one ehae if it was I. there it wouldn't make me lore a leep at night about using the rules of Triple A .1bill-l— They're aw Eul. They're a --t- -I used Triple A in their 1— and procedures and their IlIlt—t.l. —.1— It t— up costing y.0 more than litigation would — y,, when the idea with arbitration is Lo save money. I p- I. there —11 go by the Florida Statutes on arbitration. Triple A we don't Illd But that's one If those kind If things is it won make or break a deal. But I'd rather have that out [whereupon, Mi. Di,qo returns to the —ii, MR. MDERSON! 1 —1, things like putting —b—ii... in thetight-of-way, thattorneys — Iill b, -- enough t, understand, —11, just because it says h— they can —p— . legal challenge and it', going 11 11 :,�. this big brouhaha. They'd I,,, y., know, what, that's It 1— our I ., - was and 1. .11 can 1111n up th,, language. MR. —ERSON: And those are the t If things that I think can happen. MR. TAY— And by the way that may have been something they did intentionally saying we'll slip one by them or It could have been just someone throwing a bunch of lines, poles and substations -- MR. LOVESTRAN➢: I can see -- MR. TAYLOR. -- and they didn,t even think of that when they put it to there. I[ could have been an untneentrenal thing. That until someone like me sits down and reviews it and goes, substations? MR.—ESTRAND. I could see a substation in a 12-fo11 right-of-way. It would just be on a number of straight It.. p01es. It might take a mile or a quarter of a mile. But you can put all those on poles. MR. MAINGOT: The transformers and a substations are a much -- MR. MAINGOT. -- bigger size. MR. WINDY. You cant string them out because [hose are 400 and 600,000 vo 1[ transformers -- MR.—MRIDT: That's right. MR. IRINDY. -- for the step—b eransforme rs 01 to Cake it to your house. MR. MAINCOT. That's right. MR. LCVESTRAND: Bui those transformers are just like the high t,hlion wires that deliver the - er to ehem. MR. TAYLOR: Well, I couldn't agree to that either because otherwise if you agree t0 that -- MR. BUN➢Y. Absolutely not. MR. TAYLOR: -- you can throw your microwave out and you can probably hang your s—A out the wtnoow to cook it. MR. LOVESTRAND: What I m saying is it may be possible to put them in a 12-foot right-of-way. MR. MAINGOT: Not with the size o_ Chose things. MR. ANDERSON: But my point was I think even -- i think it was just we didnit think that through all the way when we wrote the verbiage. And they would understand they could not. go ahead and d0 that without some serious 1ega1 challenges. MR. LOVESTRAND. Oh, yeah. I agree with that. MR. AN➢ERS— And their attorneys would say, you know, what, yeah, you're right. R-1 —- this up. Because I think what Richard has in here is for the most part. cleanup scuff, nothing MR. MILLER: And I guarantee you [hey already intended to pay the $460,000, MR. MAINGOT: Well, I don't Cake nothing [hey say as a 9uasan[ee. MA. MILLER: They intended to pay it all along. They Only fed us [his $230,000 thing Co ge[ us to snsi..[ on [he 460,000. MR. ANDERSOM: Okay. so should MR. MILLER: Guarantee you. MR. -OR! Os hoping you'd bite on the 230. MR. MILLER: You're darn thing. MR. ANDERSON. Do we wane to discuss -- MR. MILLER. This is nothing more than a t. MR. ANDERSON. Well, do we want to discuss this further but we'd like to try to get consensus [hat we would look for the 150 plus the 460. MR. MILLER. They're going to pay it. And [hey need to. MR. I-: Yeah. MA. ANDERSON' And lee ourselves -- MR. BUNDY: I would agree to [hat as _Ong as we re under the understanding that is [he -- [has 01 e di.1 breaker. It they don't ..y it, we —Y. And also -- I would also like t, stipulate 11 sound t flex stated ... yearly tl discussions ....... .. don t. er -91ti-1111. You k..., — i—th,,dy that can make a decision. Mx.-- well, then nowy.—t sending two --d --g— You don't MR. Y; Well -- but no — talking 'b"l i, there are further sticking points Chat if we pit. an .911da it— if it 9— on Ite agenda then they need-- if they —It an item on thetg — —i— they 1—d t. bring -- they —d :. bring it 11 that is empowered by lorida Bower. And If they — to fill up that 111111yl and 1111,b,dy 1,,, l hit okay, . We can —1t, it over to the But if we are —1-9 there j— like D— loo said, we are giving our strategy out an a public meeting. we are negotiating. And then they're saying, well, okay. We will take that back to our superiors. We are empowered at that point Co reach a binding a_ ement. We can bind the City at [hat point. Now, it may have -- you know, it has to go to accordance and that sort of thing. But we have the authority to tied the City and I feel Chat as — good faith, they need to send somebody who also has ehe authority Co bind Florida Power. MR. —NGOT. That's right. MR. ANOF,RSON: Okay. But we re looking It — plus the — approximate fee today. Non negotiable, you pay that now. feed this f ranchi— with Richard's things to be negotiated, Chat is our bottom line final offer. MR. M NGOT. I would like this (indicating] portion here. MR. .WiIJCRSON. Okay. We'll discuss that. That actually is an i.mportaet clause that was removed that favored nation stuff that if somebody else gets a better deal y u get the same -- MR. MAINGOT. That's right. MR. ANDERS— -- better deal. MR. MILLER. They probably won't have any problem with Chat. MR. LOVEBTRAND. They will because what happens when they go to Casselberry and get a little better than us. Then they got to pay us and Ninter Park and it just keeps on building. MR. MAINGOT. So why -- MR. LIVESTR t 1— MR, MAINGOT: So why should we limit ourselves? For Florida Power's benefit? MR. ANDERSON: They agreed to that .in the pas[ MR. BENDY: In Altamonte. MR. DRAGO: In their franchise agreement that they submitted to os, which everybody has a copy of. It's on Page 3. MR. MAINGOT: So we st i11 have that. MR. DRAGO. Yes. It's on Page 3. MR. ANDERSON. Okay. It's still in there but moved. MR. MILL— Okay. MR, ANDERSON. There is it, eerf ect. That's not an issue any more then. MR. MILLER: All right. Ie s an non -issue then. All right. MR. MAIN — Just a cecona. MR. LOVESTRAND. I'll go along with you, Dan I don'[ see Chem accepting chat much. But I'm fo MR. —STRAND: so I would go along with you. MR. ERAIRSON: And then -- MR. MILLER: I guarantee you they'll accept MR. LOVESTRAND: wel1, we'11 see. MR. MILLER: You watch. MR. TAYLOR: There's some language by the waY MR. MILLER: The other night -- MR. TAYLOR: -- in my letter about MR. MILLER. - [hey weren [ accepting anything -- MR. TAYLOR: -- favored nation eha['s unacceptable. MR. MILLER. - and now it', 230. MR. .-➢Y: Yeah. MR. TAYLOR: There is some Sanguage in [here that's some trickiness in here Chat -- to be squared. I mean, that's something else. MR. MILLER. You know, we hire you to iron Chat out. I mean, that's not a problem. MR. ANDERSON; Because we started this with you raying you needed z dollar -- a bottom line thing. You either accept this or we donut move forward. And it seems like we re approaching a point whew we re going to give you, this is the bottom line and then you can go ahead and negotiate the details out. Does anyone have something else eo zdd to this? MR. DMR— Well, the other thing is if they do pay the 150 and the 460, then the legal problems with [hem cola ect ing the franchise fees from May until preeent and beyond is still -- MR. L—STRANJ. Up to the courts. MR. DEAGO: - on the Cable for the courts. So we could either win or lose that. MR. ANDEREON: Correct. MR. —OR: Right. MR. DRAGO: So we -- so Richard and I understand thzt. MR. BUNDY: But the lease we end up with regardless of what the Court says ie this six r Ion hundred -- MR. DRAGO. The 460 --- MR. TAY — 610. MR. EUNDY: -- and twelve thousand or whatever. MR. MILLER: Right. 610,000, MR. MAINGOT. This here Dn this page is not Che same as here. It rs not. There's one important element thous left out. And Chat is with regard to the length if the franchise agreement. And that's what covered here. MR. DRAGO. If I can explain. The season why Florida PDwer did thae is simply because they were going around only offering ten-year deals. So they threw that in there. This contract you have in front of you is stipulated for 3e. MR. --DY. I= s for 30. MR. DRAGO. R. that's why they took that out. MR. MILLER: Right. MR. DR — eec ause you wouldn't want t0 have that in there and say, well, I Chink, I'll, you know, I.11 take a _tve-year deal. They re going to agree to give five years Dr ten. They wan, a 30-year simply because they're putting the buy option in there. +as That franchise agreement didn't have a buy option and they were offering ten-year' deals and that's what Altamonte signed. MR. RAIN— Yeah. MR. ➢SAGO. So the theory was Cha[, okay, :E City A got a 15-year dea1, then Altamonte could extent it five more years. MR. BUNDY. Of course, the point that he's making, how about if they do? I mean, e don't know. Eighteen months ago they said they'd never sign a franchise agreement with a purchase option. So about if they were to sign a ten-year franchise agreement with a purchase option? MR. 1UDERSON: Well, that's where I think that has value. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. That's right. MR. L—ESTRAND: I think it, a deal killer. MR. MAINGOT: Oh, yeah? MR. MILLER: I do, too. MR. MAINGOT: Well, it is if we chink so. Bat if we put it - MR. AN➢ERSON: Okay. MR. MAINGOT. They already have it here. MR. MILLER. I guarantee you it, a deal los killer. MR. MAINGOT. I chink we say that's one of the -- well, that's your opinion. MR. ANDERSON: But if we can establish what our bottom line Cake it or leave it is. Do we want to say, you know, here's all Che things we want and let them try to deduce what the bottom line by adding that in. Or do we just say, no, this is the absolute bottom line? MR. LOVESTRAND: I'd rather be clearer with Chem. MR. AN➢ERSON: I would, Coo. MR. MILLER: [ would. Yeah. MR, AN➢ERSON: I agree that that's an i ml�oi[ant Ching bu. - MR. MAINGOT: Well -- MR. ANDERSON: And frankly -- MR. MAINGOT: -- they're certainly not going Co go, right, because they wane eo coot sol Che s iCuation, all right. And that's why Chey are so adamant against looking at the ten-year rolling. Right. Although, they used Co have it many years ago. So this is therefore another -- it gives us 10] another b'it of leverage in the event that they happen to negotiate with some other city. We have -- we have some leverage there, right. It gives us a provision, you know. I[ s a re -opener. A re -opener that Z m looking for. I mean, we re not talking five years, gentlemen. We're calking 30 years. That's a long time. MR. LOVESTR-D: 30 Years for 600 -- MR. MR—T: We re eal king -- MR. LOVESTR— nd some thousand dollars. MR. —ERS— But that's -- we re going to lock ourselves into that versus [he potential of 20 years at 50 million dollars, so _t could be 30 years at 150 million -- MR. MAINGOT: That's sight. MR. ANDERSON: -- versus -- it s a huge decision to lock yourself into. MR. LOVESTRANO: Right. Except for the face e hat if we re going Co work on -- we re going [o bargain for money, we can t bargain for tame, too. If we bargain for time, then we should— be bargaining for money. MR. —GOT: So what you're saying Is we should just bargain for the dollars and forget 100 about all the details in the franchise agreement? MR.—ESTEANO: No. No. MR. MILLER: No. MR. —EST— Not the details. Richard can take care of that. MR. MILLER: Just that detail. MR. MAINGOT. This is a detail. MR. LOVESTRANJ: Z m saying forget about that ten-year one . MR. MAINGOT: Right, MR. LOVESTE—R -- when yo want that much money. MR. —1y: I would just say I would like to see rC a favored natton in there more like the original one they offered. If they are, you know, so adamant chat they're never going to sign a tenyear one, then what's the big deal? MR. MAINGOT: That's right. IC = there. MR. MAZNGOT: They put it 1- It's there. MR. —Dy: That's the same Ching they told us. We re never going to sign one anyway, so -- MR. MILLER: That's right. There's no buyoue 109 provision in that. Okay. They just -- you just said that. MR. MAINGOT: Why should we concern ourselves With that? MR. MILLER: Well, you're absolutely correct except for one small - -MR. MAINGOT: Yes. MR. MILLER: - okay, that whole draft was based upon an idea, okay, that there was no buyout provision. Now, things have changed. That agreement you— got there has absolutely nothing to do with what we got sitting on this table. Nothing. Eecause it was based on an entirely different concept. MR. MAINGOT: So I want to say something. MR. MILLER: sure. MR. MAINGOT: If we can improve our position -- MR. MILLER. I don't thfnk we re ving anything, okay. MR. MAINGOT: You don't think so. MR. MILLER. No. No. I don't. MR. MAINGOT: So if they offer a better deal to another city, we should just stay on the s'i deline and say, fine, gentlemen, we re locked into you for 30 years? MR. MILLER: What they offs to another city is their business. MR. MAZNGOT: Oh, [C s no concern of ours. MR. MILLER: No. I[ s not any concern of ours. When we enter into our agreement -- MR. MAINGOT: Well, if we can benefit from it, we need not look at it. MR. MILLER: Why should it be a concern of MR. BUNOY: Then why should b, base our franchise agreement on O—d— agreement? MR. MAINGOT: Oh, boy. MR.—ERSON: One at a time, guys. MR. MILLER: Okay. I don't see what they negotiate with som_ other city has anything to do with us. Okay. Maybe as Ear as the franchise percentage is concerned, yes. MR. MAINGOT. That's also covered there. MR. MILLER: gut it really that's set by us, [he percentages and we can negotiate that; can [ MR. URAGO: Well, the problem you've got is e hat -- if " memory serves me correctly, [hat favored nation clause in [hie one basically limits the City to stx percent -- MR. MAINGOT: That's righe. MR. -GO: -- and they're basically saying they're not going to go above -- MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. DRAGO: -- six percent. But if you were MR. MILLER: Anything above a sax percent is excessive anyway if you ask me. Because it s still -- MR. BENDY: And Chen 20 years from now -- MR. MILLER: -- a tax that we e putting on the people. Okay. MR. LOVESTRAND: 'There's legal precedent for the sax percent. when it was tested you have to justify the percent you're getting to the value you re given for the use of the right-of-ways. MR. MAINGOT: And how about 15 ye rs from now, what are you going to say about it. If we lock ourselves into srx percent. MR. LOVEE-E: The percents remain the same. The dollars 9. to but the percents remain the same. But the dollars go It. MR. BENDY: No. want o minute now. It you're saying it has to bear relation to the value given, then it -- are you anticipating property values being -- increasing fn those 15 years? MR. LOVBSTRAND: No, What I m saying is -- MR. BUNDY: Wait a minute. In 15 -- MR, LOVESTRAND: You asked a question. MR. BUNDY. -- years -- I asked you: Are you saying that in 15 years property values will not go up? MR. I—ESTRAND: T m saying that property values may up and so may the cost of electricity and so will the six percent. It will go up proportionately or nearly proportionately. MR. BUN➢Y: The sax percent will go up The six percent wont go up. The six percent -- MR. LOVESTRAND: The dollars will. MR. BUNDY: The dollars - if the power bill goes up. Hut th— is not in relation to the value of the service given because the value of the service that we _e giving is the use of the City's right-of-ways. MR. LOVESTRAN➢: Si. percent -- MR. SbWDY: Not the -- it has nothing to do wrath the ,It of electricity. MR. LOVBSTRAND: Six percent is the record high in this State. MR. MAINGOT: At this point in time. MR. LOVESTRAND: There's never been a higher number chart srx percent. MR. MAINGOT. At this point in time. MR. LOVESTRAND: Jahn is saying there ;s. MR. MAINGOT: No. MR. DRAG.: No. You're xighe. MR. T—OR. The franchise -- MR. LOVESTRA Si. percent is Che record high. And one COUIt has said Chat th—, -- anything over that will have t0 show justification. MR. BUNDY: But that's what you're saying that what has been said today. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. LOVESTRAND. Dm-hum. MR. B[INDY. That's not -- that may not what's going t0 be said 15 years from now, 2T years from MR. MAINGOT. So why not protect ourselves? We re negotiating cow not only for us for the n— th— or four years, we re negotiaei ng for all of chose who have to come after us. MR. BENDY. Hut Richard -- i chink Richard has covered that in his letter anyway -- MR. MAINOOT: Right. MR. BENDY: -- because he wanes -- you know, he brings up the Fo iLt that srnce the fxanch ire Fee is a negotiated amount, [hey can [ arbitrarily say, we re only going srx percent and no more. MR. MILLER. Then why won e we just stand by that and get on with it. MR. —LOR: Or we could throw my letter out and we can just not collect a franchise fee and raise the property [axes srx percent. MR. MAINOOT: Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. MR. BENDY: Which would be Cax deductible. MR. ANDERSON: " i, hold MR. T—OR: That's true. MR. MDERSON: -- if - it rarses an interesting point and it has come up in the discussions over this pas[ summer what if we just tossed that whole franchise thing out and just didn't even deal with ehe issue. rarse [he money somewhere else. The thing that sticks in my mind with that idea is that, you Chen have let Florida Powex, you know, do this and it has caused temporary harm to Its the City of which you get no benefit for. The way that I think that you rectify that is you also restructure your relationship with the Florida Power. Okay. Ne re not going to ask you for the franchise fee, but we are going to ask for a different type of contract, you know, one that would let us buy it out at different intervals or something else like Chat. But the way we re headed is, you know, the six percent, these dollar figures that we ve been discussing al.l night. MR. MILLER: And perhaps the six percent should be negotiable at various intervals, you know, every five years or something. MR,—D.ESON. There actually is, I think -- MR. MAINGOT: Just It,,, us the option. Gi— us an option. MR. ESJNDY: well, under favored nations It -- MR. MILLER. Yeah. gut we could do it -- MR. BANDY: -- does become negotiable -- MR. MILLER: -- differently than that there. MR. BANDY: - it you eliminate the sax - cent cap; would it not. Well, I guess Rt, Noe unless we say ie -- unless you give an opening. 116 MR. TAYLOR: Of course, I don't know. I think early on when we were negoC iating without the buyout and so forth. That — or eight percent "ill came up and they said, we don't care if you want to chenge to eight as long as it can approved. MR. MILLER: Exactly. MR. TAYLOR. Becausa, again -- and eo eliminate the s.x percent isn t going t0 help settle this case because -- MR. ANDEREON: No. It s not. MR. TAYLOR. -- that six percent isn t paid by them, it', paid by the customers. MR. MAINERT: That's right. MR. —OR; El to eliminate that, they'll 90 so what. MR. ANDE,RSON: Yeah. who cares. MR. MILLER: Okay. So why don't we just eliminate it then as a cap? MR. BDNDY: Ae a n, yeah. MR. MILLER. Yeah. MR. BENDY: NOC as a fee. MR. MILLER. Sust eliminate the cap. MR. LOVESTRAND: NOw -- MR. BENDY. Well, that's what Richard's -- MR. LOVESTRAND: the county; do you MR. —OR: MR. —DY: MR. MILLER: -- what do they pay in know? I believe s.ix percent. -- recommending in there. We11, thae was John's sticking point. MR. LOVESTRAND: But they don't pay Che Cen percent utility fee MR. MAINGOT: in -- What's MR. MILLER: that? Talking about Che cap, e—i.— the cap. MR. LOVESTRAND: -- the ten percent utility tax, I think they only pay six percent. MR. MAINGOT: Yeah. But don't box ue in, as the market -- MR. MILLER: No. No. No. If we eliminates the cap, we re not MR. MAINGOT: MR, BUND, boxed in. Right. Yeah. In his letter he addresses that that you eliminate MR. MILLER, -- roe done need a Favored MR. —DY: -- mentioning the six percent. MR. MILLER: MR. BUNDY: -- thing to do that. 11 that correct. MR. TAYLOR; I think So. MR. ANDERSON: Guys, one at a time, please. MR. MAINGOT: Okay. I have a question. What will happen to us an the event of deregulation? MR. LOVESTRAND: If we purchase, we'd be in worse shape. MR. MAINGOT: Just a mrnuCe. Just a minute. Yea, you think so. MR. LOVESTRAND. Yes. MR. MAINGOT: Not at all. MR. LOVESTRAND: Under deregulation, we'd really be in bad shape. MR. MAINGOT. Not at all because then ehe market is blown wide open and there is competition. And if we arc owning our own local oiser ibution sylt em and we re buying power wholesale, we Cher=_fore are free to negotiate on the open market for the best passible provider. MR. ANDERSON: Wait. Wait. Wait. Guys -- MR. LOVESTR t Then the person who's holding the cards -- MR. MAINGOT: You re completely wcory. MR. LOVESTR t -- Cs the generator. MR. MAINGOT. Florida Power told Chat to you, nut they're wrong. MR. —ERECR: -- now there's two issues here. And it doesn't —t-1 if the City 1-1 ehe system or .—ih.dy else I— the system, under it, the — thing that happened ,,ith the phone I—p—il.. MR. MILLER Th.— I fact. MR. RNEMERLE: The 1-9-diitt— P—lid— Itn he lty.— you —t It I. b, But it d— 9- to a --h point where ehe I—, If the 11,11 lines gees I. extract . fee for --y call Rd' tig—d— If whc —I i, R—idihg. E, under d—1tti.h, Itq.Id1III If if the Illy owns 111 infrastructure it the lily or if Florida III— —R the itfl--th— it the City, lhe —1— homeowner shop with FlPower orida MR. MAIN30T: III— right. MR. ANDERSON: - 11 Enron or R1,11— they MR. MILLER: Right. MR. —ERS— supply their service, but whoever is I.hi.g the little I.IR1 Longwood —M—ht MR. —IRCT: C.1-11 MR. MDERSIN: - gets eo extract a fee for everything that runs through it. So it - MR. MILLER. And the Eee may not be a� great -- MR. ANDERSON. No. No. No. MR. MILLER: -- as pride, though. MR. aNDERSOM. But the important point rs under deregulation it doesn't matter who the homeowner selects to provide their energy. whoever — it still gets to pull a piece of a pie -- MR. MILLER. Oh, I know chat. MR. ANDERSON: -- out of the whole thing. So is the 2ity going to be :n worse shape, no, because you're still pulling your piece of the pie. MR. MILER. Depending on how much that piece of the pie is. MR.—ERSON: But that has been something if yo ve watched the telephone market, the local 3e11 companies are not struggling for dollars. It's the guys out oe. the top that are comps[ ing for -- I can give you two cents to call across the country. I mean, those are the guys Chat are really ser i—ly competing. Ira P, 12,1 If you look at your telephone bill, the local charges are not competitive aC all and that's where all the little add -on fees are and we re going to add call waiting for eight bucks. I have no choice, if I wane call wIltilq or caller I➢, I can t -- It, you're doing eight bock, I can get it from this guy for s,x bucks. No. Eecause it, the loca]. guy that coot role that. MR. LOVESTRAND. No. MR. ANDERSON: And it's a monopoly. MR. LOVESTRAND: Dan, not quite because you're forgetting technology. And technology can throw she whole Ching out of whack, just as the cellphone ''-s causing many people to give up local Boss if they've got a cellphone. MR. ANDERSON: Um -hum. MR. LOVESTRAN➢: Ala. technology may bring package deals tbat make it economical for a homeowner it use fuel cells -- MR. AMDER — Correct. MR. LOVESTRAND: -- or small generators. MR. AN➢ERSON: correct. MR. LOVESTRAND: Technology could throw the whole thing out. So f'm saying, you know, we re calking about the future. There's so many question marks, we cant really aeal wicn ic. MR. ANDERSON: That's correct. So let's focus on -- [Whereupon, there was a knock at the meeCing room door after which the following transpired:) MR. ANDERSON: So Iet's focus on, are we going to do Chis as a bottom line. MR. MILLER: As far as I m concerned we MR. —NGOT: I say yes. MR. MILLER: Yeah. MR. MAINGOT: With teeth in that franchise agreement. MR. TAYLOR: Well, the teeth are in my letter, too. MR. MILLER: As much teeth as you <an get. MR. L—STRAMD: So let's make a moCron. MR. BWNRY: As long as you sign the s ti.p. MR. Loves— : Are we allowea co maze r / r a motion at this special session. MR. BANDY. As long as re', understood Chat when we say bottom line -- MR. LOVESTRAMDz Make the mot.von, Steve. MR. BANDY. -- you got eo realize, you know, when you say or else that's -- MR. LOVESTRAMD: Need a motion. MR. BANDY. woah, woah. wait a minute. MR. MAINGOT: He has a point. MR. BUNnY. As long as before you make any mottons we need to understand that if we re going to say that this dollar figure i�. particular as far as we re concerned ehat's the deal breaker. And that this is it. That this is the deal or else. I. ve had many people tell me Che same thing and I'll taken Che or else some[ames just to see what Che or else means. MR. MILLER: Well, the or else -- MR. BANDY. And are you willing to do it MR. MILLER. -- is something they don't wane, believe - MR. BANDY: Huh? MR. MILLER. I'm telling you they don't P, 01 0 want the or else. MR. SCRRY: Well, you k.— you're telling me that, but everybody has been telling me t lot if things about —t they want and what they will I. and -- — And I j— — to —1 that we MR. l—ES— : -- it f— MR, BANDY: -- PlIp"Id -- —t —.— Wait a —.— MR. No. No. No. Are we prepared t. — with the or ,III? If '11 saying this is -- that's what you re saying when you saying this is the bottom lit- If I off— you , bottom line p— on doing a job E., y.. and I say this is the E-- line 1,11 d,, it fAnd - Y., —Y, no. 1 —1 away. MR. MILLER: E. y., really think for ... lt—d -- I'll be honest with y... You just think about this L t—til. D, you think that Florida E.— ie , t. —k 1—it, eheir b,tii— in this City over 230,000 bucks? MR, BANDY: 1,t — —1 you —1-9. E—E to —1 yright now. - MR. MILLER I di— b—III it It, —I—d. MR. BUNDY: Wait a minute. You re asking me -- MR. ANDERSON: One at a time. MR. MILLER. I don't believe it. MR. BUNDY. You re asking me what I think. I think that Florida Power has done some really stupid things in this. I think that they have made some very bad decisions to this whole thing. Not just with Longwood, but with Longwood, with M-lberxy, with W[ncer Park. So I am not going to try to read their mind. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. BUERY: I'm not going to. I'm just saying that I want it understood out here that we're saying here tonight iE this is -- and when you say bottom line, do you really mean [his is the bottom line? That we want this or we walk away from the table? MR. LOVESTRAND: We didn't say that. We're really saying that this i.. the offer, our only offer. MR. B=z well, if it E the only offer, what are you going [o do? If it's the only offer and they say, no, that's unacceptable to us, are we co come back with next only offer? MR. MAINGOT: As long as they rote rupt that axe we are still waffling, right, and not firm, they are going to concrnue to play hardball and hand us little pigeons as they have done in the past. MR. ANoeRSON: het me -- eutch rases a very important point and that is when we say this is Our offer and this ie the deal breaker, you either meet this or the deal is off, you contend that there's no way they're going Co walk away from it. I would agree with you that a good business decision would say this is pennies on the dollar - lock up the revenue stream for the next 30 years and that would make a great business decision. Hut as 9ut1h has said, they haven't made great decisions during this. MR. —I.: Right. MR. —SON: Okay. Now, if they -- have to have a unrted voice. Md the whole Ph— of this is thac we area wit ea voice zY that says this is our final offer. MR. MILLER: And I chink it should be. MR. —MEE— And not a, this is our final offer for this meeting and next meeting we'll have a different final offer. MR. MASNGOT: That's right. MR. ANpERSON: And chats waffling. That we really have to be committed and say this as where we re at. And -- MR. MAINGOT: So lets move. MR. MILLER. Well, remember the other night, guys, at that meeting they were not paying us 460,— bucks or any ocher amowt for that -- MR. MR. TAYLOR. Well -- MR. MILLER: And tonight it was —,— more. Okay. All of a sudden. MR. TAYLOR: Hut it s in a different way -- MR. MAINGOT: It is in a different -- MR. MILLER. It doesn't matter what the way MR. TAYLOR: Well, y s. It does. Because the other night they said we will not P, III- the 4sa you have because of ehe claim of homeowners. MR. MILLER: I understand that. Okay. MR, TAYLOR: But they said whae we can do is just eweeten the pot out of our own pockets and not tie it to the 460. MR. MILLER: That's exactly right. MR. MAINGOT: Correct. MR. TAYLOR: And the same as they can sweeten the pot for paying the full 460. MR. MILLER: And I'm telling you they're not going to lose their franchise in this City, okay, for 30 years over 230,000 bucks. MR. ANOERBON: I would agree with Y.I. MR. MILLER: They're not that stupid. MR. TAYLOR: Time will cell. MR. ANDERSON: But if this Commission cakes the policy of this is our final offer, it needs to be the final offer. MR. M RGOT. The final offer. That's t MR. ANDERSON: And if they come and say, no, no, no, we re not going to do Ihat. Then we need eo stick to our guns and -- MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. ORDERS— -- say at the next meeting that you want to come and talk to us this will still be our f.i.nal offer. MR. TAYLOR: Higher. MR. ANDERSON: And are you -- well -- MR. TAYLOR: Because attorneys fees keep going - MR. ANDGRSON: But this is the issue. And, I mean, I'll say that I spoke to the commrssson after I did all my search and I think it makes perfect financial sense for us to purchase ehf s. We had a study done that confirmed my belief that this is a good financfal thing to do. The City of Casselberry came to the same conclusion and even after the arbitrators raked the number It -- MR. LOVESTRAND: Doubled. MR. ANDERSON. -- doubled -- MR. TAYLOR: The number still works. MR. ANDER — But the number still works with the dollar value doubled, okay. And everything that ill seen In the City of Winter Park says they are going full steam and the voters are behind it, not just the r ol City Commresion but the voters are behind it and cant wait to vote and say, yes, we re going to buy this thing. MR. MILLER. Yeah. But I don t think ehe vote has to go on an Winter Park like it does here. MR. AMDERBON: But -- Ma. TAYLOR. But it will. MR. MILLER. It may but I m telling you -- ME. ANDERSON: Come on. MR. MAINGOT: Let him speak. AN MR. EERBON. Now, I still have [he floor. Ma. MILLER: G. ahead. MR. ANDERSON: I am telling you that I m prepared to go out and educate the voters on this because when I srt down and -- and it does take a little bit of time. But you sit down and you explain the economics of it and you explain the fact that -- we'll have a referendum. But you explain this does not obligate ehe city hall or our police and fire depa-tments or any of our bank accounts, this 131 obligates the revenue from the electric utility. And as Butch pointed out, you could just buy it and se11 it right back to Rl orida Rower s Light or OUC or whoever wanted to buy i, we could sell it [o Enron if they have any cash left. Hue when you explain chat distinceion and how ehe economics work and all this stuff about, you know, how could the City guarantee the reliability. I spene two hours the other morning without power because a se upid squirrel walked on a line. Because they -- oh, we aren t going to upgrade. we aren't going to, you know, underground anything. MR. MILLER: Oh, I had the same thing happen. MR. ANUERSON: 5o we got issues. MR. MILLER, Two hours without power. somebody ca11s us and says: - ve got a pothole in the road, or we ve got a waeerline break, they call one of us City Commissioners and we get on the phone and say, here's the problem. Something gets done. And people understand that. That at the local government level, we are very responsive to their needs. I think -- MR. MILLER: Except for John, you can t ever get a hold of him. MR. MAINOOT. Which John? MR. RE-0: Maingot; right? MR. ANDGREON: Bu, if we -- MR. MILLER. Leave a message. MR. ANDERSON: -- go through this and we offer Rlorida Power this is our offer, it, a pitons -- MR. MAIN— That's right. MR. ANDERSON: -- eo so cure up ehe revenue se re am for them. MR. MILLER. That's a fact. MR. A ESON: If they turn this down -- MR. MILLER. They're stupid. MR. ANREELON. -- that will be all [he ammunition Chat we need to go to the voters and say, we have tried and we have Cried and we have tried and we can't get anywhere. And ehe rema>c> g option is for you to own this and for you to decide who is going to I— care of this. And I chink that that's something we can do. So I -- you know, if they wane to make a smart business decision, they should take this and run with it. MR. MILLER: You don't Chink they'll say that -- they'll pay it. MR. LOVESTRAMI: Oh, I don't know if they will or not. I'm for geeeing all we can, just like you are. All we can for the people. What I don't chink is that his referendum would pass. MR. MILLER: I don't chink so. MR. MAINGOT: Well, I don't agree with that. MR. MILLER. But it doesn't matter. MR. MAINGOT: It will Cake us having [o 90 out there and knock on the doors and I know that -- MR. MILLER. I'll be honest w.i th you if it comes down -- MR. MAIN— -- Florida Power and other people will cry to blackball it. I know t hac. MR. MILLER. Wait a minute now. If chis city Commission decides Chat we re going to buy the utility, okay, I for one -- MR. MAINGOT: we re no[ buying the utility. MR. MILLER: I for one would ee —illy be out Crying to promote it, okay, rather than trying to defeat it. MR. MAINGOT: The local -- MR. MILLER. To be honest with Y.I. MR. MAINEOT: -- distribution system is not the u[iliey. MR. MILLER: Because that's a Commission decision and I would stand by it regardless If how I felt one way or the other. okay. If that's what it comes to. MR. MAT—T: Right. MR. H Y: That's what we need It- 1-1— MR. MAIN— That's right. MR. BRNEY: And I don't think we re going Co get chat. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR. — we— not going to get Chat unity. MR. —NGOT: we need testicular ol fortitude right here tonight. MR. BREDY: We re not going to get that unity because I don't chink Mr. Lovestrtit -- Commissioner Lovestrand is of that it —Id. MR. MILLER. Re11, I chink that if Paul Lovestrand sat down and realized the - if he really sat down and looked at at -- I donut believe for -- listen. i m going to take just a second to let you know something. 1 know Paul Lovestrand better than anybody in this room, okay. There isn't a dishonorable thing about him really in my opinion, okay. A lot of the things that have been said in the past, I simply donut believe, okay. Some of the letters that were sent out about things being said at some fire is crap, okay. I'll be honest with Y.I. And it offends the hell out of me thal somebody would put out a circular like that because I know him. Ne would never say anything like thae. Hut putting all that aside, okay, I really believe if he realized chat this thing really panned out and — did a feasibility or we went to arbitration and it came up right and the dollar figure was there, I believe he'd go for it. I really do. MR. BiINDY. Let's ask him. M e tatting right here. MR. MILLER: Okay. Bvt we haven't gone that Far yet. Okay Right now he's probably one way. MR. MAINGOT: He doesn't want to go there. He wants to settle with Florida Power. MR. MILLER: I understand. MR. ANDEREON: Okay. Wait. wait. Wait. MR. MILLER: But if it does go there -- MR. LOVESTRAND: That's another lie. MR. MILLER: Wart a minute. Hold on. MR. ANDERSON- Gentlemen -- MR. LOV£STRAND: Ask that man right there where I sat. MR. ANDERSON: -- ttop right now. MR. LOVESTRAND: I sat right behind him, but you and some others are telling the public in the newspapers that I it on Florida Fower t side. MR. MILLER. Come on, guys. 0. MR. LOVESTRAND: Anoeher lie. MR. MILLER: Listen. Lf scen. Listen. MR. ANDERSOM: Wait a second. MR. LOVESTRAND: Now, ask them any time in private where I sat. MR. MILLER: If it went to arbitration -- MR. ANDERSON: Take Chat outside. MR. MILLER: -- and it Came down [o a firm price and th-e City Commission decided t0 put is to a referendum and -- MR. LOVESTEAND: All lies. MR. MILLER. - it showed a profit for this City in the amounts that —It thinking, he's going Co go for ie. I guarane ee you he will. Okay. we just ht—l'C gotten that fat yet. MR. LOVESTRAND: I'm opposed to it for a couple reasons. — opposed t0 it philosophically because I am a free enterprise person. I am not a government ownership person. So there are ocher reasons besides the economics of it why I'm opposed. And you can say we don't have unity or we have unity, I'm voting for this and i'll 0. r stand behind that vote. Bue I will sc and alone and do what I think it light as I have for the last two years even if everybody is against me. Eecause when I think I m light, I don'[ give up. I hang on till the last breath. And when I'm dead, I'll give up. MR. MAINGOT: What do you mean -- MR. LOVESTRAND: That's when I give up, okay. When I'm dead. MR. MAINGOT: You mean going out Co the public and run against us. MR. LOVESTRAND: Because I fight -- I fight fo[ what I Chink is right. And that's what I do. And I will not give up on it. MR. MILLER: Oka, MR. LOVESTRAI.L: Okay. MR. MILLER: well, then we seeded Chat mat�eMR. MAINGOT: Well, the voters Cold you otherwi re; didn't they? MR. ANDERSON: Gentlemen. MR. -STRAND: No. Because If the waffling. MR. MILLER: ae11, he has a different reason for not. wanting it done. MR. —ESON. I know the rules are suspended, but Come on. MR. MILLER: Ne has a different reason for not wincing it and that's fine. He s entitled to "' In spice of what you may think, he's enticlCd to that opinion, okay. That doesn•t make him the enemy. it just makes him have -- MR. MAINGRT. No. ©ut what the Chairman. i., saying today we agree on .t and we stand by it. MR. MILLER: Well, we do. The Commission does. MR. LIVESTRAND: I stand by my vote. MR. MILLER: The Commission does, okay. MR. ANDERE— Now, okay. It s a thorny issue and it's something that -- the strength of this Commission has been that we have not allowed ourselves yet to fall. .i— the old pattern that I saw when I first got on this Commission and has been going on forever and ever. We can t let it become pe eonal. MR. MILLER: Absolutely Cant. MR, —ERSON: A.d I h.—It found —i— —y R. —y ehis y— E, it--hi,,q It- I— said. But I — ---d .bIlt unity ML this Commission. And It'. I tough -- I-- -- there's . fine line between the Commission taking a t.tl and establishing C—i—,. policy and as 11 the City, 11 have adifference ,... of opinion and wane to E. in a different ifft, that's a ... y fi— I,— and it hard 'tcoursb made per can sonal l .iM,". be. made But if this —1 we —y L.11 tonight is supposed to —y h— tonight and it Mt. not — You k—, we don't — about it with Florida P-1 and —1, okay, h,l— ihe —1 i-- i.. If ehis C—i,ti— tonight 111, this is the final offer, —, ttl— the only thing -- I—', the only Ching that Florida Power hllll is that that is ehe final offer. MR. MILLER! And —1's --d it, f—, .f that. He tt.d I. f—, that would b. the final MR. AN➢ERSON: And I will take him at his word Chat if he -- MR. MILLER: Absolutely. MR. ANDERSON: -- goes with that, that's fine. So _et s -- MR. MILLER: Eut that's far as we ve gone. Okay. We haven'[ gone any further so there's no sense -- MR. —STRAND: The sticking point is if they zif— it -- MR. ANDERSON: Then whae? MR.—ESTRAND: -- then what? And I say, referendum now, not arbitration. The administrator and the attorney has said, how can we go to referendum when we don't know the cos[. MR. MAINGOT: That's right. MR.—ESTRARD: And I say, how can. ws add another 400,000 or 300,000 Co our t-I in order to find a cost. Let s go to referendum MR. TMIX)R: And the reason I've said Chat is a referendum would be of no value and would not even be legally effeceive because the charter if it does, an fact, say that you have to have a referendum. And you say, okay, voC. erg, ie s going to be 12 million dollars. And Che arbiera[ors say it'. 12 million and one dollars, you have Co have another referendum because they never approved 12 million and one dollars. MR. -STRAND: But these doesn't even have to be a price_ in the referendum. MR. MILLER: I don't chink so. MR. -ESTRA D: It can just say we ze not getting into the business. MR. MILLER: It just has to be a concept. MR. ANDERBON: Okay. But -- MR. MILLER: That's all. I don't think you have Co have a dollar amoune in a referendum. MR. ANDERSON: Here s the problem. If Paul -- MR. TAYLOR: The concept would never pass either. MR. ANDERSON: MR. MILLER. It may. MR. ANDERSON: And this -- MR. TAYLOR: Huh-uh. MR. ANDERSON. Find this is the touchy issue and I'll be frank about it. If the majority of the Commission were to set out on a course and one nember were to do his best to if it can t be -- if voles can be persuaded here, we'll 90 outside and s amp it from [he outside. That's where it starts to muddy the waters and people take it MR. —BISON: And it's - to me that's rn the giant gray area. But if you call For a re_e rendum beEo_e a price has been arb ie rated, the public cannot be educated as to what the issue is really about. Because if I came [o you and I said, I would give you the electric system for one dollar. A lot of the people in the City would say, It, that's great. But if you said H million dollars, t heyd say, hum, no, there's no way I'd want chat. So I believe that if you were eo call a referendum before the dollar value was 25 with it, but 1 will say my perception is that P, y— intent is not. an honest debate of what the real issue rs ehae's been framed. But attempt to thwart it using subterfuge -- x ull issue on the table. I'm just going to cell you I have a philosophical problem with It. It', bad, don'c do it. And I chink that the Commission wo'eld prefer if we had to go to the step, which hopefully Florida Powe_ will wake up and sign this thing, but if we had co go to that step, it as of more benefit to the community it wait until the dollar value has been established and say, okay, here is the issue. I am opposed to is philosophically for the following reasons and I'll you see how much it s going to cost. 1 disagree with chat. Other people could say, no, here's how it does benefit you because Che costs work And you have a very good point that we would have to spend, you know, 50,000 to $400,000 to get these answer. That's a cough pill to swallow. Hut I a -so think that's part of leadership. MR. LOVESTRAND: But there is -- MR. ANDERSON! And that's the part of leadership where you said we have done our best to get this thing wrapped up. And we have been unsuccessful and unable to wrap this up. And, therefore, you elected us to make the hard decisions. And the hard decision [his Commission is going to make is, we'11 go ahead and spend Chat money to get ourselves to the point where we can make a decision. That's a hard thin, besides referendums. There are charter cnanges and i understand in caeselberry, [here are a hundred people out getting signatures for a charter change, which the Comml ssa on rej e<ted which -- MR. ANOERSON: — technicalities but yes, they did attempt that. MR. LOVESTRA_UD: And that's what I see as a possibility, too. MR. MILLER: The Mayor brought up one good point [hat I'd like to expand on juet a 1 ittle bit. Listen I believe everybody in r, 0. here is an honorable person, okay. I hope that ehe anger doesn't flare up MR. ANOERSON: Please. MR. MILLER: Really. I know that certain things happened during the election. But listen the elections briny oue ehe worst in everybody. They do for some reason. They really do and it s not good, okay. But let's put that us behind us, okay. And the fact that Paul differs on this, he has every right to. Believe me the train will continue to roll down the Cracks. It doesn't matter how loud the dogs bark. It doesn't matter. Okay. So the fact that the dog is barking, does that ltlp the train. No. no we stand there and scream at the dog? No. Who cares. Okay. Let s just move on. All right. and not fight amongst each other. Really, let's MR. ANBERBON: Aid that is why I tried [o say, the perception is there. And it" not something that's easy to say because I don't wait it to become a personal issue. But that's why it degenerates into a personal issue is because the perceptions are there. MR. MILLER: Then the Commission becomes fascialittd and we don't accomplish a Ching. Reali, MR. ANBERSON Aid that's why I want to focus on, we will speak with a unified voice that this is the final offer. And all the sluff about would we take this Or not take that stays inside of this -- And he has Said that -- MR. MILLER: That's right. MR. ANOERSON: -- that's what will happen. MR. MILLER. And I believe him. MR. AMOERSON: So whatever we decide on tonight, will be the unified voice. MR. BENDY'. And to eeit,11te what Steve said that's why I seconded whey Paul made the motion to have an executive session. I was ick to second that because we can have o_ discussions in here chat I would -- that we have all shown a propensity that we would not have out on the dais. MR. LOVESTRAND: Oh, yeah. MR. H[INnx. And we can vron issues oue. Are we always going to agree? No. We're no[ always gong to _ e. But I just - and the reason i bilghe it up is because, you know, you understand -- I mean, you're saying, okay -- we re not saying, Richard, this is what we want, go see if you can get it. We re saying, Richard, thiE is all we'll take. We won e take anything less. Ma. MILLER. And another thing, John, you were not elected because the electric issue. Okay. I don't believe that for a second. I think you were elected because you've been' great Commissioner and you did a lot of things up there that were right. It didn't have anything to do with that electric issue. Okay. 'That's not a mandate for you. I really don't believe Chat. Okay. Listen to me. MR. MILLER. I knew -- MR. MAI Cd: That is -- MR. AN .R.. Ee has the floor and lec him speak. MR. MILLER: I knew Chat you were going to win when I walked a and saw the two of you out here I. front, okay. One 9uy looked terrible wi. th the red shirt on and you -- I ike a class act. I knew you were going to win when that happened. The guy didn't have a chance. He never did. Okay. So I wouldn'e look at this issue right here as a necessary mandate, okay. other e hings were taken into consideration with regard to you guys getting re-elected. MR. BENDY: Well, yeah. MR. MILLER: Believe me. MR. BENDY. I think we won -- MR. MILLER: Please believe me. MR. BENDY: I think we won in spite of the electric issue. MR. MILLER: Yes. MR. BUNDY: Not because of ie. MR. MILLER: That had nothing to do with r or remains It' matter was discussed with the people. MR. MILLER. I understand. MR. MAINGOT: I don't wane tO gO there. MR. TAYLOR: Lee s not get off the issue of what we re supposed to be discussing on this far . what the meeting is called Cor. We have limited things ehae we can discuss. MR. MA INGOT: Okay. MR, MILLER: Okay. MR. MAINGOT. Mr. Chairman, do you want MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MR. MAINGOT: And let's put it down. MR. ANDERS— Okay. Since we established ehree-and-a-half years ago chat the Chairman can make motions, I would move enat we set $150,000 plus the a60 -- 462, whatever that dollar value is today -- MR, LOVESTRANJ: It's more today, but what was said ove_ there was 462, correcC. MR. MZLLER: 162. MR. ANDEREON: Ell whatever the value is today, we know what. figure you�re trying tO nail down here. MR. LOVESTRAND: Right. MR. ANDERSON: 'The — plus the approximately 462, chac figure -- MR. ANDERSON: Okay. 612. Plus the proposed franchise with your negotiation on here. Not that what's in your letter is carved in scone, but we wane significant progress On chose issues Chat are rn your u letter. That's or good Eaith. We re asking for the 612, plus the franchise, plus what's in your letter as our final offer to sign this franchise. MR. MILLER: And you -- MR. TAYLOR: And you can point on that, substantial progress with the underscanding Chat I don't have Che authority Co bind you on one of issues. — 11 make substantial progress -- MR. ANDERSON: Correct. MR. T—OR: -- subject Co your approval. MR. ANDERBON: Subject to our approval, correct. But that's our intent. MR. MILLER: ON -hum. And is would noc r dishearten me in the least if you st ress to them in the mole strenuous terms that this Commission is going to axbit ration if they don't sign it, okay. I'm 1e111n9 you and I guarantee you that will wake Chem up. It really will. MR. ANDERSON. So that's the motion. MR. EDNDY: I second the motion. MR. AMEIIER M: We have a second. Do we need a voice or a roll call? MR. LOVEETRAND: How about discussion? MR.—ERSON: Discussion? M.R. LOVESTRAMD: I want to say fo1 our own record that that is my final offer and I agx e with Chat. But I disagree with going to arbitration aft--d- MR. MILLER: Okay. MR. ANDERSON! Okay, MR, MILLER: That's fine. You have a right to. MR. ANDERSON: Is there any other discussion on this motion. [Mo xesponeej MR. ANDERSON: Okay. All those in favor say ay [Ayes respond] MR. ANDERS— Those opposed say no. I- response) MR. EIMOY. — we going to need a voice vote for the retold? MR. ANEERSON: Well, it, unanimous. MR. TAYLOR: I[', unanimous. We know MR. LIVESTRAND: 5/0. MR. —BRION: Ie s 5/0. IC carries. MR. MILLER: And lhey need to know it was 5/0 also. Okay. [Whereupon, the foregoing proceedings t oncluded at 9:19 p.m.] C731 2 C 1 13 2 3 1111111 ,,, "T'. 1111211111 1121113171 11121 0 17 111 11 : .... ...