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CCMtg09-13-99SMMin[,oNGwrooo crn• conmussloN LongvooJ Ciry Commission Chxmhers 1]S \%r, \Vazren Avran:c I.m~gwoaJ, I~ori,Ia SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES Soprnnber l4, 1999 Mayor 1?,ul I.ovesmnd Oepury Mayor Sreve Millar Commissioner llhn Aodenon Commissionu Aanamarie Vac,a John J. IJrago, City Adminisrcaror Richard S ]'aylor, Jr, City Arcomey Uonoran ltoprl, l;srl., Ca-Counsel R~dn n. naar~rd,, nepnry city cl¢k AI3SEN]': Commissioner l2useg Alilas 1. CALL TO ORDGR. '1'he,myorealled aspecial messing ro ordn az ]:02 p.m. 2. ANNOUNCEMENT RY MAYOR. the mayor read the tollorving-.,nnoun<cmenr 1'Ar nremhers af<be La,rgrvood G[y Coarmimon,MynrFard Lo,emm~d DrpnrynlynrSUu nL]Lr, Comneimioner D~eAndmon, and Commirrionu'Anrtmrrmte V/ttu, ailb (ammexianer' 1{rury AU'ler ubrw~t, nv'!linert in dnredrwian ,nv(b lbe G'iry flnamg~, Iliab/rdS. Trybr, Jr, Dono,an Itap<r; Lrg., romri„n( C.iry Admini+nvlor Jabn). Drvga, m,du Conrz IGpoar,//rrbe pnpare a/&mm~ g pw,dirg G6g/n rs R./<'re naom r a[ a. rAr Gry fLn+B'na°d. Tbr ar rG g viii be mnd,rrrJ in wrurd/„m uirb fGrida Srarr,rrr. Cfxynr 286.OIr[8J. 3. RECESS TO CIASED SESSION. 'lhe tity commission recessed az"1:OJ p.m. ro a closed session. J. RECONVENE SPECIAL MEETING TO ANNOUNCE THE TIME OP ADJOURNMENT OF CLOSEll SESSION. the <iry <o mened ar]:llp.m. and the nayor announced the closed.ess:on adloumed am"lioion reco CC 9-U-99\>30 5. hDJOll RN MY.F'l'1NG, CC 9-1199\'Y3t _ - _ ~ ~ N j .. - --6-K ~ -- .SLLSI.r~ P1 ~. LS, I -Y OC LONaWOOD, Daf ei~danL. SF~Z~D& MEET7NG Ccmm~..,s_on ii _199 b. ~~ F0.2Tk.~ BY. J Ler xICHARD T EsgIIIxE 531 nog T ackxROad Longwood, rFL 32'150 DGNOVAN x PER, ESQUIRE 919 W. SCate Road 436 Altamonte Syringe, FL 32']14 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE DEPENDANT ALSO PRESENT: Paul Lovestrand, Mayor Seeve Hiller, Depuey Mayor Dan Anderson, c John nrago, CitymAdministra[or AnnaMarie Vacca, Commissioner P R O C E E D I N G S MR. LOVESTRAND: We'll call the September 13th special meeting to order. I have an announcement, Members of [he Longwood City Commission. Mayor Paul Lovese rand, Deputy Mayor Steve Miller, commissioner Dan Anderson, and Commissioner AnnaMarie Vacca with Commissioner Rusty Miles absent will meet in closed session with the city attorney Richard s. Taylor, Donovan Ropes, Esquire co-counsel, city administrator Sohn Drago, and Che cou.rC reporter for the purpose of discussing pending litigation for Morr s, ee. al. versus City of Longwood. The meeting will be conducted in accordance with Florida Statutes Chapter 286.011, Paragraph 8, and we'll now recess rt and close the MR. LOVESTRAND: I will entertain a motion [o suspend she rssle, so we can have free discussion. Is there a second? MR. MILLER: Second the motion. MR. LOVESTRAND: All in favor, say aye. THE BOARD: Aye. MR. LOVESTRAND: The motion carries, Mr. Taylor. MR. TAYLOR: I m [he city attorney, Mr. Taylor. 2 wanted [o meet tonight to discuss this Morris versus City of Longwood case. The city admivist razor and I met with Attorney Sones and his clients here about two weeks ago to discuss settlement. I ve also met with the Brstorrc Society to get their input and feelings on the matter. easrcally, Mike Soves and his clients are saying no[ only do they want Che street closed from Wilma, the street out here on the side, down on MR. ORACO. you mean open? MR. TAYLOR: Well, left open, E keep saying it they actually put an entire street all [he way up Co 927 to remain open. The o e person [ha[ lives at [he other end of the street that got out of the litigation, aow they're stating that they will allow that to be open. The ho[ dog vendor guy over here (indicating) was protesting saying ie would have required him Co back his ho[ dog trailers out, and he wanted even Char to remain open. Au[ the overall consensus Erom that group is that they would allow that portion [o be closed, but they also want Co remarn open Wilma from Warren all [he way down to Highway 434, and there's a lot of booths from City Hall down to Bay scree[, nevermind the ones all ehe way down. They azen t willing to go and just close half of Warren from here to Wi 1ma. They want the whole thing -- 2 say closed -- to remain open. So basically, that, in essence, rs probably half or close to half of [he booth areas Chat [hey want to eliminate from this festival. The Historic Preservation Society agrees, basically, with the advice I gave them, which is at ehis point not to concede leaving any of the proposed streets open. The reason for chat is, as 2 explained a[ our last executive session, T feel that the law is entirely on our side in this matter. I have concerns that if we even agree to close par[ of it, ChaC homeowner or busrness owner is going to be the next one to say, well, you closed this for them, now you close our portion, so at sees a precedent that we ve done that. As far as the status of Che litigation, Sudge Freeman denied my motion to disqualify him as the judge. Ne then also denied my motion for reconsideration on it. He cited a couple of cases and his reasonings, Ywo cases, one of which had a little biY of merit but was distinguishable from the situatron rn this case, and the other one had, I thought, no merit wha[soeve r, and I pointed that out [o him. Artd he summarily, without hearing, denied the motion foz reconsideration. Then Hike Sones set a hearing to get injunctive relief. That was held last Thursday. He has now set a hearing for the injunctive relief for Wednesday, October 6th at 9:00 a.m. S don't feel this case is going to settle unless we are to fold and close these two streets, and I think we might as well just give up on the festival if we are going to do that. I think we'll destroy the festival, and I think the Historic Socieey backs me on [hat. As I talked last time about bringing Donovan Roper tn, he's worked with us on Che billboard suit [hat we had against us with Hardin and the litigation againse [he City and done an excellent job. I though[ it would be very effective -- particularly for some long shot that Judge Freeman actually hears ehis -- it's even more important to have him involved. 2 don't think that will ever happen, but S just think as far as to handle [his case effectively to have nr. Roper on board would be beneficial to the City and to me. I've discussed with him -- 2'11 let him talk more about this. we have two different approaches [o Cake now. One rs to 9o to the Rif th Dr et rict Court of Appeals in -ayeona Beach. There is a three-judge panel over [here that hears appeals from the crrcurt court, and one would be Co appeal the decision of nudge Freeman eo not remove himself from the case. Mike Jones sent one of his associates to this hearing and asked him for [rme Eor the injunctive relief, and he even mentioned -- he said, have you looked at all the cases in the last two years against Sudge Freeman Eor wzrts of prohibition in the Fifth DCA that have been granted where he wouldn't get off the case, and the Fifth DcA made him get oft cases. This is not an unusual situation with him, but we can go there and chat possibly would delay -- my ovly concern 1s that if we do Chat, and if the court trr es to re-assign us to a different judge, that wouldn'e serve our purpose. Another effective ehing to do that was really Mr. Ropers idea would be Co -- since they are asking £or federal remedies in here, is eo remove this to the federal district court, and that would be more eff ece ive for many avenues including: judges who have knowledge concerning [he type of relief that they are asking £or in here, having a more neutral playing field, time factors that will benefit us, and so forth. we have not finalized, actually, what we re going to do, and we may end uo doing a combination of both for various strategy reasons that we ve discussed. We need to discuss those mare, but that's my plan. I wan[ to move forward on defending this suit. I wanted Co let you know what the status was, getting input from you, and some marching orders. MR. LOVEETRAND: Does Mr. Roper want to speak? Mx. RopER: Yee, sar. 2'm very recently on the case, not fully on board, but i ve been talking with Richard about it £or a couple of weeks. 2 know what has been going on, and I read [he complaint quite a while I suggested to Richard [haC you all consider removing rt £rom federal dis[ri c[ court, if it's not too late. 2 had urged Richard to be very careful, very guarded, in the way he ohrased pleadings in the state crrcuit court case to _ cifically withhold and reserve any right to object [o the jurisdiction of [he cr rcurC court over the case. You ve go[ two federal amendments and federal crvil rights statutes ehae ehey're going at you from; Fifth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment, and Section 1983, which is [he crvil rights statute. This is what they call a [emporaiy-takings case. Usual takings cases, like the one we have in ERM with Ali Molamed (ph), but tnia is aifferane in chac rt ra a trans~enc e~enc. xt a going [o be over after a couple of days and no one as really - they're not even really alleging this is a, quote, unquote, true-Cakings case. r i z 3 5 8 9 to 13 35 16 1s 19 22 the problem that we run into historically, and .t s noe ao ranch snage ereeman, ~c e fuse seaee c~rcn~c juages aen'c unaerseaaa feaeral e~~il rignra laws. Ana what you get is -- sometimes you get -- and ie snot necessarily an unknowledgeable or an ignorant judge. You just get someone that doesn't deal with this day in and day out. We prefer to have these kinds of cases question decided by a federal judge, because the Eleventh Circuit Coure of Appeals is a lot beteer than the Fifth District Court of Appeals in the state system. Another good reason why it would be behoove you [o think about doing Chat. is because it will buy you more time. And in [he effort to buy more tame, I think Chat suite your purpose, and that rt keeps a decision from being made, meaning that Che festival goes on unless a court rules on vt. Now, historically, federal courts are a lo[ more slow moving Chan circuit courts, especially on questions Iike Chis. Not only Cha[, yon don'[ have hearing wars. You don't have hearings as much in federal court as you do in slate circuit Coure. For some reason, [ate judges love Co have hearings over even minuscule, minor issues- Federal judges are [he opposite. You done see [hem until pretrial conference and then trial. Everything is argued through pleadings and paperwork. if you done -- r_ we remove t, then Mike Jones could, theoretically, come back and try to unremove it, that rs, ove rC. back down to state crrcuit court on an argument that, look, yo'a've already appeared in the state crrcur[ coure. You ve been to several hearings. You've argued motions to disqualify Judge Freeman. You've lost. You've given up. You ve warved your right Mike Jones does quite a bic of federal civil rights Iaw, and he may be aware of some of the case law that's out there that does stand for Chat. That's why 1 told Richard to be very guarded in phrasing everything that we re not agreeing -- that we re properly in front of the state crrcuit court here by simply appearing at a hearing by simply f'il ing a motron on behalf of ehe CiCy. The other option that Richard hit on rs staying in state crrcuit court and trying [o Cie everything up, and again, buy yourself some more irme here with the wrrc or prohibition. A11 that is rs an appeal of Che judge's order denying the motron [o disqualify hi.m. I m a little less optimistic about that being as successful. Even though ehere are lots of cases rn which the Fifth ECA has granted wrrts of prohibition against Judge Freeman, I think that Richard has -- by one me rrtorrous, maybe two out of four grounds -- that he listed in his mot von as he ran against the guy in a judicial election, the Board of Governors. That is a pretty good reason. I mean, the standard Chat says you should or should no[ d isgr~a l.i Ey yourself is whether or not it states a reasonable fear chat you, as a lawyer, and your client are not going to gee a fair and impartial trial. And i£ vt states a legally suffici ene reason, then Judge Freeman has got to do it. To me, Chat, rn and of v[se1f, >s enough. The fwo guys ran against each other. They have a track record. I think that's a me rrtoxvous argument. tut I'm not going [o tell you -- I don't have a glass ball, a crystal ball, and the Fi.F[h DCA is not orv ous for noe wanting to make decisions. MR. LOVE'STRAND: Wouldn't you think -- we ve had one drop out. If we go to federal coure, and they see the delays, v[ s probably more expense Co them. There will be others that will drop out. MR. ROPER: I think so; hence, that sL rategy. I chink -- you're making it clear to them that number one, you're noL messing around. Number two, at s goiny eo stretch vt all out. 2 think you will sta_t seeing a loe MR. MILLER: Not ovly [ha[, I really believe that [here's only one person Chat's paying this bill. I don't Chink iC s the people [hat are rnvolved in st. It s an outside person that's stirring this up. How much more expense is it [o Chat person to go and take -- for Mr. Roper to 9o up onto a different court level? Will they have to expend more money now. MR. RoeeR. well, there's more paperwork from our side, but it s very easy role paperwork to go crank out. it will make Mike work a little bit more. MR. TAYIAR: Bu[ the only thing I'll say about Chat is Mike Sones rs infamous for taking on cases. I don't think he's been paid very much money to this day. He s the type, and he's done it rn other cases, where he'll go to the end ort a case based upon what he sees as a principle that he believes in and without being paid a dime. I've seen him do it before, so rt s noe your cyp ical case where, you know, you got the lawyers saying, all right, now we are in federal court, and I need an additional $10,000 or $5,000 retarner. Ne's liable to say, don't worry about it. I~11 handle it. MR. ROPER: He s definitely a governmental rconocl ast There's no doubt about it. case law on this matter already? MR. ROPER: Yeah. Temporary takings, as I said, that's what Z mean. You ve go[ a So[ of good case law rn federal crrcucts on temporary takings. Mx. TAYLOR. The only other thing I would suggest, by the way, that I think we should do, and I ve not really discussed Chis with Mr. Roper a whole lot, so ct ~ subject to his input also. fie has no[ really looked at our codes that we passed concerning the regulations on this festival, but I think -- I thought before the suit ever came up that that code that we wrote could be revamped and made better. And I think in term of what we re looking at with this litigation they could be rewritten eo make it better even rn terms of the concern. The only concern Z have with [he suit he filed, and it s not a nig concern, cs they're alleging that we re giving authority to a non-profit, private corporation [hat we don't have any authority to give to. Z don't YhiNC that argument is valid. I think a lot of other towns; Winter Park, Mount Dora do the same Chirt9, and I read Winter Park's when I prepared the one we already did. Bu[ I would possibly wan[ eo go back and see if there s a way that we can pass an amended code that even makes it stronger, which even then makes our beginning on Chis thing Cha[, at bes C, that Mike Sones could win the battle, a battle, but could neve_ win [he r 1 Because if a court says, well, you haven't done street, meaning it's not your official event, [hen we just go back and do what the judge says you have to do in order to make it right, and we wan anyway. So iE the judge says that what you've done wrong as Chis, you weed to put your seal more as [he City's art festival and not some private, non-profit corporation, Chen that's what we do. And I ve talked to Che Hiseoric Society about doing that, and they don't seem to have Coo much of a concern. MR. MILLER. In other words, you want to make it a city-sponsored evene. MR. LOVESTRAN~: More than that. A city event where we <ont roc[ [hem to run it. MR. MILLER. Right. MR. TAYLOR: So Chat •s [he ocher thought I've gotten, to even begin laying the ground work for chat while this sort is going on. We'll already have an ordinance in effect that, in essence, defeats Chem before the. judge ever makes the decision or comes closer [o at. 2 just think there could be improvemenes eo thae ordinance that we could make from several standpoints, and I ehixilc Mr. Rrago agrees with that that we could bring an amended ordinance. r MR. LOVE$TRAND: The Historic Society is no[ aa~erse to run,iag is nnaer a eoatraot. MR. TAYLOR. No. MR. MZI.LER: In that case, I'd like to move that we go ahead and take it to the next higher court level and fight it. MR. LovesTRAND. well, we still may have more discussion, but rs these a second? MR. LovesTRAND: we name a motioa eo secona Chat we had compromises with these people, artd everything we heard from [he administrator and the police chief was we had a solution that seemed amenable to both parties. And as time has gone on, they have gotten mote intransigent on their demands, and we have discovered mo_e chat ehe Iaw is on our side. And seeing how the law is on our side, and we ve gone to them and said, we will do the following things Co work with you, I just don't know whe ze they're coming from. What exactly do ehey want. MR. TAYLOR. I think -- MR. LOVEETRAND: They reneged on their deal. MR. TAYLOR: I think ehey talked about this -- we TERI GRANT, CODRT REPORTERS (4d?1 943-696 1 r broughe ehis very factor up at their settlement discussion with them, and evidently, they were led to believe that the closing of half of warren Avenue would take place Chis year, and then it was brought back lacer. There was a note ov one of the letters saying this can [ be done this year because the booth space is already rencea, but we'll ao it for next wear, ana ie all blew up at that point. That was true that the space has already been rented for [his year. I, personally, didn't have any involvement or didn•t even know those negotiations were going on. I, personally, feel, not from a Segal standpoint, well, maybe from a legal standpoint, in that you could set a precedent, but I Chink the deal to close half of Warren se arting next year was a bad deal for the MA. ANDERSON: What I see then is that they're basing their case on federal pzincipl es. That's where at should be dealt with then. MR. TAYLOR: They're basing [he decision on some theory of Mike Jones that -- I'll have [o give Mike Jones credit. ife s tenacious. He s a hard fighter. He doesn't like the government, and he's often -- he just recenely won a sort against the state on a taking of this doctor's private land in Che Landings up here, and he had a statute behind him [here to yo on. He had He did a good job. But he gets out an these things ~~- I've known h.i.m s ance the late 70 s. I was employed by him for four and a half months. I mean, he's challenged a lot of laws. He was challenging them back then, and he still challenges them. £Ie went to court -~~ you we rep t a commrssroner then -- bue a few years ago a week-long jury iri al against the City of Longwood and the Code Enforcement. Board, and he walked out with a big goose egg. He does [hat a lot. He takes on some of these cases and he yets -- you know, maybe S'll learn something in this, and there's no guarantee who will wart ehis sort. eue I'll juse cell you this, I ve done some research on [he law, and it s an our favor. Md if we lose this sort, Chen you can say goodbye [o the wanter Park Ax[ Pestrval, the Coconut Groove Ar[ Festival, which is one of the biggest an the southeast, and the Moyne nora Art kestival. I don't see it happening. MA. MILLER. Can we recover our legal expenses from the parties? MR. TAYLOR: No. MA. LovesTRAxn. That's eoo bad. 3 r 2 MR. ROPER. Long shot. MR. DRAGO: We can ask Eor it really believe that when it comes right down to it -- I really believe that the agitator behind [his whole mess is not even one of the parties. I believe that. Md the ehing about it is, I think hex behind needs to be dragged right rnto ehe coureroom wieh the rese OF them if we try [o get damages. I really believe [hat's the I think the fact that she's not one of the parties does not stop her from being a part of this mess. And quite honestly, I really believe, and like Dan said just a few minutes ago, they didn't agree after they agreed. I don t think the agreement was made with her present. Okay. 'Lhe agreement was made with Che police chief and some individuals that were parties. Then all of a sudden after the agreement is made, it goes up in smoke. Yes, he was probably right. One of the reasons was probably because next year, this year, and bia h, blab, blab. Eut I think [he reality is somebody from outside go[ back in [here and strrred that pot up again. That as what happened. That's what I think, so I think we need to drag her into it. MR. LOVESTRAND: That's not possible. I don't think we have a case of proof, but Mike Jones sure forgo[ to Cake her name o£f the carbon copy that he mailed. MR. MILLER. He sure did. That's right. She's get [.ing copies of stuff, and he c.c.'d it right to her MR. DRAGO: When we sat down with Chem, we kind of drew a map out of Warren and everything else for the pare Ces that are effected; got relief automatrcally wieh the partial closure of Warren. At some point up Che stumbling block, was this one over here, the hot dog man, and when I asked him -- well, firs[ he wanted both entrances to his driveway [o Tema rn open, so that's Warren and part of Wilma. And then when he was pushed a little bit even by [he parties, he agreed, well, I cart live with Wilma closed, but waxrev has got to be open. We dealt with [his one particular attorney down in being able to hire and Eire attorneys, of course, they wan that all the way through. I believe we probably could have settled wit}i Chem, but I Chink part of the problem also lres wr[h the attorney. He s rn there Yelling Chem I have the Saw on my side. We re going to win, you know, like the una on activist, you know, we re going Co win. He did hit upon the second issue, which was the ordinance. He says Chere are two issues involved. One is Che open of the street, and [he second one rs the ordinance. If we can address the ordinance situation, that wr11 Cake care of that, and then the other one lies with itself. also, the group did indicate a dissatisfaceion with the city government for a number of years holding [he festival and not being sensrtave to their needs. I haven't been a party to the city in the past, so I really couldn'C address that, but [hose seemed like the two bones of the con[entr on with t}ie resident a. MR. LOVESTRAN-: I have some remarks on that. They have had some legitimate gripes, I Chink, but they have always complained eo the wrong people. They have noe compl.a fined to the society of people who were running tt. Now, I have one other questton. It would seem to me - I ve heard this spoken by one of them in the Society. we can always get them rn and out by getting a police motorcycle to escort them in and out. Can Chey maantaan chat we re closing the road if we say you have access. We'll get you in, iE you need Co get. in, and we'll get you ouC, and they still marntarn thae we ve closed [he streeC. We can just take the blocks off the end and not close the street but have so much actavity Chat nobody would come up the street, you know. In the 1 /~ 5 9 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 22 25 past, we ve put ehe horses there, and, rn fact, 2 stood guard there one year on 92]. MR. ROPER. That's still a constructive closure, I guess. I don't know. That deftest weakens their argument. MR. LOVESTRAND. I mean, we cart call a motorcycle and have [hem taken in or taken out. MR. TAYLOR: IC gets down [o -- I think Deputy Mayor Miller said this about ehe outside parties, and Che politics that I mentioned at the last meeting Chat's involved in this case. The flavor I got aC Chat meeting was, we done want eo settle [his case with you. We want to fight i[. Thexe was nothing we can do short of closing these two streets that was going to make them happy enough. One lady that lives down here, she's pregnant. She says at the time of this festival I'll have my baby. What i£ [here's an emergency with [he baby? I was, like, well, you can almost yell to the Eire and rescue out your window from there. I offered -- I said, that the society will get a gas-powered golf cart, and we'll designate parking spaces. As [he one guy said, yeah, you let us park at the hospital, but when we go shopping and come back, no spaces were left. i Ccld him we would designate, rune off, and make sure you had reserved spots at our police TERI GRANT, COURT AEPOATERS (907) 943-7696 building down here. No, no, no, that wont do. take you there in a golf cart. The garbage problem -- we offered Co say that we'SI take your collected. we'll take them and have them dumped and bring them back to your doorstep. All these other supposed problems we have, we offered -- every single one of [hose things we said we would resolve. No, they MR. DRACO. A11 or nothing MR. ROPER: If i[ s that kind o£ situation where, obviously, they're not go in9 to negotiate or prior negotiations have fallen apart because of their intransigence, I chink then you~d have to make a decision, do you want to take it to [he ma[ or not. In my view, at s pretty much a no-braiver decision. we'll go to federal coax[. There's a reason [hey filed that in state circuit court. There's a reason. MR. ANDERSON: 2 would say Char. i[ sounds like you got to fighe ie, force the issue, and make them lose. the trashy thi nge like the perking just the easy simple, simple things. But i[ does sound -- [he thing with the street closure you said we have to maintain [he T6RI GRANT, COlJRT RE POATCRS (907) 843-7696 r precedent, and that's fine. But after it s done, and you seem to chink thae we'll win xt, ehen we can address any of the issues just Co be good neighbors. them in wrr[ing that would help our case along as Ear as, you know, we have offered to do this? you ve said, no. We ve offered to do this. You ve said, no. Would someC hing to [ha[ na[u_e heln us an our case as fax as taking it to the next court level? MR. LOVEETRAN~. The police bargain, was in writing. MR. TAYLOR: That was rn writing and that was prelit igation. Things that happen now would be considered discussions of settlement and typically are inadmissible in the <o~re once you get to the trial level. Ma. RoeeR: There~s a lecter aacea only zsen, two-page letter. MS. VACCA: We11, my concern rs that they'll get rneo court and say, well, the city was never willing to work wieh us. They've come before the commrssron and nobody wants to budge. 2've Cried to talk to them prior to [hem filing the Lawsuit, you know, well, the City is not willing [o listen to us. The Ci[y is not willing to TERI GRAM', COURT REPORTERS (40?) 843-?696 work with us, but we were. we did make efforts to try Co resolve this before it got [o this point. I don't know who is vnvolved ;n >t. MR. ROPER: They want to attach Tom Jackson's letter to the c mp hint that they filed in Che court. MS. VACCA: I think we have tried Co stay away from the particular people that axe vnvolved in vL. Philosophically, I think Chat it s wrong. They should have beer. Crying to work with the administrator all along and Crying Co negoC iate comet hi.ng with him as opposed [o going and speaking to an attorney. I chink things are always settled much better if [hey Cxy to work through them then to take things to this level. MR. ROPER: To answer your question, yeah, that's already in the court file. That's already considered part of ehe complaint, so the judge will be aware of it just from [he fact at s attached. MR. LOVESTRAND: Le[ me ask if this will hurt our case. The man that's the holdout on Che corner here is currently making money off the City. He has a Saturday rt;yhC, once-a-month colt tact where Terxy Baker asked him this guy business when he's giving us trouble? M5. VACCA. That's a separate issue. TEAI GRANT, CO[IAT REPORTEAu (40]) 893-7696 r MR. LOVEBTRAND: I'd be of the mina that if you`re going to sue the city, you can't do business with the city. MR. ROPF,R: You yot to be careful of that one. MS, vACCA: That's a separate issue. we probably shouldn•t even discuss that here. MR. LOVEBTRAND: No. It's part of this issue because it involves the same man. MR. xOPER: I'm more worried about what county court says be.i ng accused of that. I see what you're saying though. MR. LOVESTRAND: I don •t wan[ to do business with him. MS. VACCA: In their lawsuit do they also include the spring festival? MR. MILLER: Is the Pickin -- you said something fo the effect chat Terry Baker is allowing somethiny. MR. LOVBBTRAND: Terry Baker got Mr. Hopkins to supply the concess.ton Eor the Pi ck in on the third Saturday of the month. MR. MILLER: On whose authori [y? MR. DRAGO: Terry d.id not do that. That was done by the parks and zees _oordinat or, because the Merchanes Association turned it back over to the commission, and Che commrssion agreed Co do i[ by resolution. That's a sponsored event. They divorced themselves from the re~reshment s, so as a stop-get measure, just Co have some refreshments Here and there, he used Mr. Ropkins just to 9o in there once a month and serve his coffee and everything else. He s under no contract with the City. I mean, we can sever the relationship tomorrow. 1 agree with you. There'e some ieeues on ret all atloxi. MR. ROPER: You goe a _ Cey good case just based on the facts right now under federal law. llnder 1983 ehis is no more than a temporary taking. You're not depriving these people of their land permanently. You're not depriving them of any and all economic use. MR. LOVRSTRAN-: we re not depriving them of MR. ORAGO. Well, plus, the big issue is Hoe only this festival but any other festival that this diet ri ct has. It impacts that also. MR. MILLER: Any city that has a parade does the same thing. I mean, obviously, there's plenty of -- MR. LOVF,STRAND: When a city paves a sereee, they quite often have to cell homeowners you're going to be denied access for a day. MR. -AYLOA: I Cold you last time there's a street in downtown Orlando next to the old hotel, which was Che court house for many years down ehere, called court r Etree[. And [here's an attorney [hoe has his office on, what used to be, Court Street. The City of Orlando juse decided they were going to close that entire st reeC to vehicular Czaffic, artd you can only walk on Ct now. Ee sued [he City of Orlando saying you can C do [ha[. The Fifth Oistri<t Court of Appeals says, oh, yes we can. Yes, Chey can. So, I neon, no[ only can you close it Eor a few days, you can close a street for a lifeeime. I[ s your right-of-way. MR. ROPER: It's not an eminent domain question. IC's a right-oE-way. MS. VACCA: But I still don't understand why Chey have only filed a suit for the £all festival and no[ fox the spring. That makes no sense [o me whatsoever. MR. oxpco. My observation is because ie s the one that's Ei rst. MR. LOVESTRAN~: My observation is that a certain agit actor is one of eke workers on the spring festival. MR. ROPER: That could be next. We could be setting a big precedent. for the spring festival. Where does iL end, you know? MR. MILLER: I[ ends right here as far as my mot>on is concerned. MS. vACCA: The tree lighting ceremony, then the r dog show, and [he Christmas tree lighting. MR. TAYLOR: TRe only thing I would say as far as trte motion, and I appreciate your support, and you tell me if I m wrong, would be [o allow us -- and par[i cularly Donovan Roper's discretion, and fox some reason between now -- we have to do something by a week from Thursday. If we decide to go for [he writ of prohibition first and Chen shift gears to the federal court, that you'31 allow us that discretion oz a motion just to go to federal court. That would kind of hem us in. And we ve not -- I don't think Finally solidified which direction we re going to go. I think we re leaning towards federal court, but maybe, have noe totally ruled out [he possibility of First filing a writ of pzohibi[ion. MR. MILLER: I'll amend tRe motion to state. M5. VACCA: I'll amend the second. MR. LOVE£TRAND. 2 think we Ve had enough discussion. Are we ready to call it? MR. -RAGO: One question. Do we need to send any letters to Sone~ relative to denying his settlement of i'er when we had that meeting? Do we need to say we'd Ii ke eo entert avn it, but I think we need to do it this way? MR. ROPER: We don't have to. We can. L^ MR. TAYLOR: He wrote a letter to me confirming his offer and wanting to hear back from me. I don't mind him the courtesy of [he letter back saying your offer is not reasonable, and I ve been inse ruct ed eo pursue -- MR. LOVESTRAND. We are pretty much satisfied that [his will take us pas[ the November -- what is i[. The 26th or whatever that is. MR. ROPER. Well, I hope. You have a lot better chance of hav Sng that happen in federal court than you ao in seace nrrcarc cOUrc. MR. LOVEETRAND: And Chen Sohn can go to the city comm.i s.sr on w.i th his permission and grant them the.i.r permissron, because people out t}~ere can e plan because they don'[ have [he official okay by the City. We should, at the same time, give ehe okay from the Ci[y, MR. LovesTRAND. Are we ready for the vote? A11 an Eavor of Mr. Miller's motion to allow the attorneys Co go to federal eoure, or if they come Co some other conclusion to give them. discretion of going some place else firs[, say aye. THE BOARD. Aye. MR. LOVEETRAN-: The chair notes that it s TERl GRANT, COURT REPORTERS 1900 843-]696 unan_mous. ?here's no further business. we'll now adjourn [o the outside room. (whereupon, the meeting was adjourned and returned [o open forum.) MR. LOVesTRANO: This meeting reconvenes. T_he time of adjournment of the closed sessacn was 6.90. MR. MILLER: No, :40. MR. LovESTRaNO: x m so y, x.40. and that being all the nusrness, we new adjourn the meeting. (Whereupcn, the hearing concluded a[ ]:90 p.m.) TERI GRANT, COURT REPORTERS (90~) 843-696 I, LORI .f[lN Court Reporter, c [ify [hat I w uthorized t andRd id s rtographi<allyerepor[ [he foregoing proc eedivgs and ChaC theeeransc rip[ is a true and complete 6 cord. DATED this 2]th day of September 1999. 8 9 1 ~"~ 2 .IIINKC ur Reporter 2 foil ~unkei~~~~~ii~ 1 _ ~~~~a ~c~ tq~ 4m'. c_ ,~~Mu~ i~~~`k~+. %c 1 -_ _= 2 '^n/g9i~~~~h 16 fL . i of tong '.h c[o DAR. cgk Enclusu~e.