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Charter06-22-98MinclTV or LoNCWOOD 1998 CHAIiTF,R ADVISORY CONm117THE Longwood City Commission Chambers 1]i W. Warren Avenue Longwood, Ploridn .Tune 22, 1998 hlinnles Present: Craig van Hooven ]im Daly, Vicrchair Jimmy Ross, Chair to Anne Rebello (arrived 7:05 p.m.l I,Ynette IJeulnis Terry Armstrong, Recording Secretary Also Present: Nadine "Iolos A gentleman I. CALL TO ORDER W ith a quo n present Mr. Ross, chairlrer on. called the moeting to order at ]:00 p.m. 2. PLEDGE OR ALLEGIANCE Mr. Ross requested Mr. Daly lead the pledge o(ellegiance. J. APPROVE afINUTFS OF JLNE 4, 1998, MEETING htr. Drily moved to uPPruve the minutes ol'June 4. 1998, as 'ritten. Mr, l'an Ilooven seconded rind approved unanimously. Ms. Rebello artived at ]: p5 p.m. 4. PUBLIC PARTIC1PATtON Mr. Ros indicated there wo people in the audience. He asked if there were any or if They wished to address [he committee with any questions; saying They were welcome and he eneoumged Nam to. The gentlemen in the audience said he was here for the Code E Iforcement Hoard meeting. He was invited to stay. Mr. Ross said xince no one had approeehed the mierophone, the commit ee will proceed. _. REVILIV CHARTER BEGINNING tt~l'[H ARTICLE L Chatter 612-98\t The committee begun with At~icle 1. Section 3.01 (c)(27, Cengrnphieal Commission Districts--Mr. Daly moved would like to [tside,~ languvge [o add the time 1'ran[e foe audi[. Ms. Rebello seconded. Ms. Rebello said she felt like i[would be a reminder very five years, if needed. Discussion ensueA. Mr. Ross asked for any further discussion. Mr. Ross said he did no[ mind questions from the audience--if [he members objet[, they should say so now and that woulp be [he «de. Ms. Dennis said sho dip mine ques[ions from [he audience because the commi«ee has "Public Penicipation." Said people could keep noses and m'k their questions then. lYte "Public Panioipation" is past. Ms. Dennis saip the is here [o do a job and gw it Aon . This will come up for the public [o have their cnputnlate~r. -MS. Rebello said she disagreed Mr. Van Hoover szid he did not like [hat idea. Mr. Daly said he had a motion on the floor. Mr Ross apologizep to Mr. Daly that it was our of order. Mr. Van Honven continued [he Aiscussion and addressed annexation. Mr. Dely's motion deal[ with redistricting. Leng[hy dfseusslon torsi noel regarding nexanon. Mr. Daly nailed the question. Mr. Rosx azked for the vote. t[ was requested the motion be read back. Mr. Daly said he would amend his motion. Said his motion originally said shot the Chn her Review Commi«ee won ld consider adding language to s-ecHOn 3.01 fc)Q) to stbtit lc i[ at requiring audits. He woulp agree w work with [he appropriate scoff and our legal counsel for the proper wording. Ms. Reballo secontlep the mnenped motion. Mr. Ross called for disc and Ihen the vote on the amended motion. Mn[Ion can~iep 32, with Ms. Dennis and Mr. Ross voling'nny.' Ms. Rebello, Messrs. Van Doaven vnd Daly voting "aye." The vole on site origiool motion: Alotiou cu tried 3-2 with Ms. Dennis mt0 Mr. Ross voting "nay.' Ms. Rebello, Messrs. Van Hoover vnd Daly voting "oye." Section 3.01, fp) Election vnd term of Office: ,V(r. Duly moved [he I of office be t ved fro t three yrnrs buck to two years effective in the fear 2001 election. Mr. Ross seconded the nmtion fm~disc[rssion. Members discussed the motion. Upon omple[ion, Mr. Ross asked if there was any further diu Mr. Defy said since there was a liven in the anpienne. he would no[objeu to [hem gi ~ing a shiny-five to forty se onA inVUt on how the citizen feels. Mr. Ross azked if there was any abjection. Ms. Denncs objected. Ms. Rebello qua red-by co us how any members re for letting a n speak. Comment was made as to a motion.nshls. Rebello made aamotion I ett"Public PVrticlpatln[f'to Pollnw the committe's piscussleu. Commem was made by Ms. Dennis that [here was a moon nn [Ise Floor and to Chnttlnr rr22AS\'_ please keep to one subject matter at a time. Mr. Daly conmtented on this Viet he did not like to do "Robert s Rules of Order", but any questions being voted on by an establisheq board, anyone in the public has the right before the vote m give public panicipation. A discussion on "public partiripntion" cominued. Mr. Daly withdrew Iris motion. Mr. Daly [hen moved [o consider language to ehvnge Ibe period of time lo,serve front three years to two years, but not before ench exist ing ember bas serval their full fhrea-year elerfimr period and atsp requested at This lime that anybody Ibat would like fo give public parlicipaf ion, that they be allowed to do so. Mr. Duly nsketl if he had a second. Thcr s disc mr that fbe motion hatl two separate items. >ir. Duly withdrew the portion of Chet motion concerning public participation. The chairpers ~, hlr. Ross, requested that Mr. Duly write the ivolimi out. Mr. Daly said the[ is what the recording secretary does; he doesn't have to do that. Mr. Ross responded that he did not know what she had. Ms. Armstrong respondetl that there were too nany motions going on at the same time, and other motions, and then somebody seconds. That it was impossible to keep track of it. Mr. Ross was in agreement. Mr. Ross indicated that Mr. Daly had the Floor. Mr Daly responded that he had a motion on the Floor that reeUed a second or it woaltl die for a lack of a second. Mr. Daly said it was the recording tary's job w take it down verbatim or to move the tape back and play it back. Said he would no[ restate his motion. Mr. Daly said he would Uo it one tart time: I move that the cut term of otlice he reduced IY~om three yen 'a ymrrs, but n nil such time . null enreen[ly elected commissioners lurve served tl air elected three-year terms. The nmlion tlieU for a lack of a second. Discussion conlinue4 with regard to when and how public input should be received and whether t should be allowed on and a second were on the floor and whether or not the Charter Advisory Committae slrould he run az an informal or formal meeting. During the on[inued discussion, there was qua non, as to whether there was or was not a motion on the Fluor. Ms. Rebello moved, xhlle it u order, a motion that al nny time denting the committee's dis<nstmw,, nner Ibe emnmiu~tbnx hale tliscnss<a h. if a rnatnbm nr a,a amhnnce »onld like to Im. input, that they should be allowed to do so befm~e the mmminere vons nefhbtg~ Jfr. Daly seconded the prof ion for the sake of discussion. Mr. Ualy need to dfsnuss procedural issues. Mx. Dennis said, that she believed that dte committee had already set forth the i which the committee will review the chaser. She thought [hat. yes, the committee woultl have "Public Participation," and that it is on the agenda- but she totally disagreed that after a motion is made and discussed, to allow public input on the motion, after it is already approved. Ms. Rebello intujccted that she would amend her motion that the conmrittee observe "Robert's Rules of Order,' as t'm~ as pnbile having input. 1Yte eirnir said, ire motion is out of ortler; Mere R v motion on the table. Ats. Rebella said slrejusV emended it. Afs. Rebello then withdrew her Itrst motion. The chair annmmced the motion amended u~ithdrnwn. Chaser 6-22-98\J Mr. Daly moved «rat the mmnriltee recognize "Robert's Roles o[ Order. " s the erlaying Rules and Regulntiorts of this particular board. The Arai a 'ee with h(s. Rebello seconding. The chair called for any discrusion. "fhere~was no a ontl; Uisenssion. The motion carried by n 3-2 vole rvillr Ms. Dennis antl Mr. Ross voting _:' Messrs. Van Hoovers, Duly, and Ms. Rehcllo vothrg "aye." Mr. Ross indicated the next item .rns Section 3.01 (e), Oath of Offlec Mr. Vnn Hoovers addressed the chair, saying he would Tike to petition this committee to have a with regards ro public participation as he was afraid they did not get enough of en opportunity [o resolve. Ms. Arm ong addressetl the chair; saying that she could not hear Mr. Van Hoovers and ordA hesplea espeak ism the mike. Mr. Van Hoovers repeated his motion. fie woultl like to petftiov this board to vote with regards to initiating public discossion on any partcular issue Ilrnt a es before the board with rendering a roAlfration m-rhange t any portion of the charter. Mr, Ross stntetl he hod no objections; Mr. Daly seconded for the sake of discussion. Ms. Dennis addressed the chair saying, [hat she would restate her We w e appointed by the e wtlre chaser. II will se no purpose to have someone from the audience [o discuss nn ~ssue eoneemiog changes in Me chaser. Because, we are reviewing the chaser. What motions have we made so Pnr end approved or disapproved-as you get fiirther back in o the charter you may see that there r [het and you will want to go and readdress chat again. We are approaching this in asround~aborit-e way and w cepring m nods, and approvals on things that as you go lusher beck you ~e going [o e Natnweseno[ in order. 1 thought we had addressed the review process at oar frs[ meeting. 1 am just disappointeel. Mr. Van Hoovers addressed Nc chair, saying [hat he was not outro debaze the issue; hejust wanted to resolve the issue. lain calling for a vote with regards [o [he issue. Mr. Daly addressed the chair, saying he seconded it for the purpose of discussion. A motion is not necessary; we have already moved-i[was alrcctly deciUed "Robert's Rules of Ordnr" shall rule. "Robert's Roles of Ostler calls for this nxnet procedure rothere is no reason and 1 would request if the motioner will withdraw their motion 1 will withdraw my second. We already said "Robert's Rules of Order" rules, we don't need to have a motion w defne'Robert's Rules of Ostler," they have done that over hundreds of years. Mr. Van Hoovers said that he did not make a motion, he waz just petitioning [he board take a Mr. Daly responded that he had seconded the motion. Mr. Var Hoovers said he [houghs Mr. Daly in understood that he was ranking a Mr. Boss said he cognized it and [he word "petit ised and he undnrs[ood Nat. Mr. Van Hoovers repeated that he was petili sing [he board [o take a vole with regards because that ix what the Rules of Order state; a vote of the board to allow this to take plmce. Mr Ross responded, O.K. Mr. Van Hoovers imerjeued-in other words, w say "n say "yes " I saying one or another, t xm saying, so let cis go ahead and do soW Ms.n Dennis eequestted Mr. Van Hoovpn ro pleare read Na[ section of "RObes's Roles' out loud. He said, yes, and said this is on page 36 with regards to Rules of Order nnUer "Same, After Motion Otnrtcr 6-22-9R\A Made.- He reaU, "After e minion is made by a ember of a board or commission, no person shall address the board or commission without frst stturing the perm i of the board or [o Uo so." In other words, i(we say that [hey can--theft they can. Or if we say they cannot-they cannot. And 1 am petitioning this board to take a vote [o say "yes" or "n The chair responded that he understood wmpletely and that he wenteA to point out that, that lies with the person doing the petitioning and not Ina members--the member who wants [o petition w address. He continued, saying if everyone [Inderstood what is before the committee w, he woulU ask each one fora "yes" or "n ." Mr. Ross questioned if Mr. Van Hooven agreed- He responded, yes, sir. Mr. Ross questioned if Mr- Daly agreed. He responded, as s, he agreed. The chair ued-~ne w nted no make a perso to frst cond ~or last-he would try to rotaten tThat he would vote f rst on this. Mrn Ross voted ," Ms. Oen voteU "no," Nts. Rebello voted "yr_5," Mr. Van lioaven voted "no," auJ Mr. Daly votedtsvo." It fulled by 4-t. Mr. ILOSS ludieafesl that they were at Section 3.111, (e) Onth of Olf ice. Mr. Daly addressd the chair--A beautiful oath, but had one question, what if we elected a onLhristian. Mr. Ross rspondeU, I Uo not kno Mr. llaly addressed Ms. Dennis_ saying the reason he mentioned this. he did not mean m be frivolous', however, he was involved in a deposition in coon recently. Mr. Daly proceedul to relate thar a person swore to God that ne as going ro tetl [he duth, but he lied though his teeth. Then the Inan said that he did not mkea oath, saying my God is of your Cod. This discussion continued. Mr. Ron statsl that he did no mtydting the matter wiM the oaN and no need to fool sound with it. Ms. Den ter]ected. Ihat she saw no reason o address the ixsue with the word. "God," being in there, a person has a choice. The chafe asked if everyone was In agreement to move on. Mr. Ross sorted ate next Item was (0, Eorrcuure. M+. Daty addressed the chair saying, if the commi«ee looks at Section 3.0516) Iulerference Hilh Adtvinislralion, it looks as though ID and Section 3.05 (b) can be combined to cut don t [he Hording. "Che choir explnined (D Hns nUdressiug calttlitlates vs. an elected individual. The committee bogan discussion of (g) Election at Large. Ms. Rebello informed the chair that someone was trying to get his attention. Mr. Ross addressed the committee, saying ao individual wished to address this body; is it the .vish of the committee that the indicidtml be recognized. Ms. Iiebella avd Mr. Duly voted "aye" with Ms. Detmis, Mr. Vnn Hooven, and Mr. Ross voting "nay." The question fniletl J-2. Discussion of (g) Elea at Large c ued with Mr. Van Hoovelt saying he understood the puryose of it. He hadtliv ed in Longwoodnfor eleven years. [=el[ there was a necessity to find s that ould stand for long periods of time. He thought one of the responsibilitees and reasons to allow [hat is to have a commissioner responsible in his/M1er Chatter 6-22-98\5 distri and be elected Ay his/her district and be responsible to those port es because, as it ands right now, he did not see that there was a pan cular burden upon any co 0 mmissionert s art back m his district or havea panimtlar rapport with regards to the eleaoram in his destric[ with regaM to particular issues. He Ntougl[t there smnds a neeq ~ r those ' o shoulder a larger portion of the burden and to tlo that it would be very responsible ofstbe committee to make it to where a commissioner is elected "in district." Mr. Daly said that his comment would just be logistical. That it would be dilfaht to have rive separate ballots, and fve separate tallies in Sanford. For a point of discussion, he would like e the commissioner elected from their districts. Two Things-they bah might be small. but still looking at whether or not we have parity in the dirt before empt to dos taking like this, he askod Me. Van Hooven sio [alk to the city olerk anUeperl ceps, Sandy Goard in Sanford. He would like to see it_ but the logistics are a problem. Mr. Ross said he would like to speak to this issue. Sandy Goard has nothing to do with the elections in the city of Longwood, Florida. AlI elections that are city elections ue under the aegis of the city clerk. For his own pan, he said, he wants w vote on an individual that is goin affect h'is life. Mr. Ugly said, hew asking for talk to the person responsble9for printing the ballots that we use. Mra ROSS answeredn 1009~the city clerk. Mr. Van Hooven questioned if the ballots woe sent to Seminole County for their review. Mr. Ros wend that they don ;they hav to jurisdict r the halloo n this city. Mr.sDaly addressed the chairo sayingW he was no[talking abou[ojur cdiction; was talking about the mechanics of printing a ballot Is i[ feasible m put fve districts on aballot-talking about the priding technique. Sandy Goard is the peron we go to order the ballots primed. Someone needs w talk to her m see if we can have five reparate bettors Ms. Dennis addressed the chair. Shc thought the committee was getting the "can before the horse." Heca e the committee was mlking about things o t of theie realm of authority to discusx on This issue. The issue that was brought up was "being elected from your own dixmic[." II is not up to the committee to work ant the logistics of thm- [t is simply up to the committee to make mendations to the commission that they accept our recommendations and then they go n~he hello[. Mr. Van Hooven responded that what Mr. Daly is geeing w is that maybe bed re i(e motion is made and there was a vote carried to modify this to snnte ez[ent, then he Quid litre to have finther infon n this to be able t makea legiti call. Maybe, he has some concern anU if it is going ttonsway Aim one way o other, and it is login tally or if there is some reason that it can be done effectively and he feels that is the way he wants [o gn; then maybe he would be willing to Uo that. If it clarifies it for him tAen maybe we can iron e of these things. Mr. Van Hooven thought it was rearonnble ratouglt to assume that if an be possible and there ough disc and it mke plat .then he thougd it Quid be everybody's oppont pity to feel comfonnble with it being done and bringing it to the Ms. Dennis requested the floor, saying she would like to hear more argument coneeming changing so that a wmmissioner is elected from their district as oppored m at large. She need, [his is a historical document and we do not change it for the sake o[ ehnngc We do not ehan~ it fur political reasons to accomtnodete someone, who nay run for public office Charter 6-az98tfi n the ~ tore. She requestnd the committae keep that in mind, and reheated. that this a h storical document, the committee is reviewing it for changes and must have good ns for changing [he document. Mr. Van Houven agreed. Mr. Daly addressed the ehair, sayng that thue Bally w t the floor; Mr. Van Hooven.l ust brought this up-is u a possible thing that we miglu vnae on~Mr. llaly said he was just looking at the physical possibiliryif we could do this. fie then said he withdrew any diuussion concerning the physical possibili[y i( w ould do this. Mr. Daly made a on that the commissioners he elected Prom their ind'ty idunl districts. Seconded by 41r. Van Houven. The chair called for the discussion. Ms. Dennis sated she thought all had heard her feelings on it. 1[ is working good and she dce anything w ong with the way i[ is being done now, so she woultl vote again tthat. Mr9ROSSesaid his thoughts on [his were that anyon who serves in the city and can vo[esto se his wxes~-he wants [o haves voicein voting for or against that individual. In elections when an individual only serves a district. everybody suffers. Invariably, commissioners ping only one list t, hen any place else vtd he has no reason m add Tess the needs any where el[e in tle city.nSOt hx allegim ce will be to a small constituency vnd he would nano agree [o that. Mr. Van Hooves stated he disagreed with Mr. Rocs because the needs and responsihlllnes of very co with regardst whether they are elected at Iare r elected by dis[ under thegoise of the responsihility of the commission, az a whole, m enact those laws which govern the city of Longwood and which are mtocteA by the state, by [he county, and by the city for the citizens of [his city. He thought there waz plenty of room and market for the individual at large to petiti each and ev¢ryone of his commissioners and have ability fo s rhos to disc any pert color with regard fo his pars sal problems-n I~is dissfri~t anU outside his district-and it still becomes the responsibility of all of the commissioners to vote on i[ at the time it lakes place. So it is afro the responsibility of dfose commissioners w educate themsrAves on all issues outside of Their disnict. If just puts the burden of responsibll ity back on a partiutlar wntmissioner in his disnic[to make them respoazible rothose people by whom they are being elected. Mr. Van Houven continued that cihere is a tremendous amount of apathy throughout dte city and it showed on the percen[ages of the voting public in the city. He though[ it was caused by aleck of geneal tinders anding of whet goe with regard to voting in the city. People don'[ even know how where andsfor whom they .ar ring. the poll will indicate this by fr umbters. There ere people that will car a vo e for a single cum miuioner and not necessarily for all at large because of [he lack of understanding of how [hey are supposed to vote. And. i[ also provides for [he ability fo ach commissioner within his disnict to peti n the purple tuide his district bmanse they can feel more aware o([hose VeuPle end thent'nhi m. Becau.re the better they know that w~mnisxloner. rho more responre he is capable of. He can be elected et large, bu[ if nobody knows who he is, does nobody in the city or any particular district, or commissioner any good. And they do not have a capability of serving properly. Charter 6-22-98\"/ Ms. Den mquesled me goor, saying she agreed with what Mr. Van Hooven was .saying that there is voter apathy. People think they are supposed to vote the district as opposed to all. She thought the solution to that would be if the election was cbanged from November m the spring of the yea a lot of ei rn Sen note and other counties have done. When !here 'is a city election during a general election, the municipal candidates get lost. Mr. Daly called for a point of order, saying he agreed towlly, but dris is not what the m Thee is discussing. He said he was in favor of having district elections. Mr. Defy called for the qua and Irate withdrew the call. Mr. Van Hooven said he agreed with what Mr. Daly w saying anU he would li ket ie the discussion rand when the discussion peno0 ontlnr is finished, he would like [o call for a vote. Mr. Daly questioned of what happens m a vote. Saying [his committee only makes endation, it goes to the com mrss,on, then to the citizens: therefore, he does call the que~tion. Upon conclruion o(the discussimr, Mr. Rr~ nslced 1'ar a vole, beginning alth AM1r. Van f[oo Mr. Vnn }SDOVfrI tartar-sled the motion be restated. Air. Daly said It is motion n the Itaor, seconded by ..\Ir. Van 1looven, is thin all connnissionrrs be elected b} district. Mesas. Vnn Hooven antl Daly voting "ayo." Mr. Ross, Ms. Denni_c, and Ats. Rebella voting "nay." Mollon l'a{led by 3-2 vole. The chair indlealW Ilse committee srordd ram. go to Seetian 3.02 Cnmpensntian. Mr. Ilnry meat a moron m irmbmo la ngrmgn m snrrnrr d,az, Com perurnim,, m rn-rhmn er fro n benefling from any rtrange in onrpensatlon until Ihec neat rand for election rAl r. Van llooven seconded. Diuussion ensued. Ms. Dennis. Ms Rebello, antl Mr. Ross voted "tray," rvilh Messrs. Vera Hooven nnU Dnly voting "aye." Alotian fa Jed 3-2. Mr. Van Hooven requested the com mittee remtn to (g), Eloction at I.nrge. Me. Vnn Hooven mid, that since Ilre Election at I,n rge has remainod in tact, he moved- dmteach rmrrnrissioner not hove to reside within tlin tiers since there is no panc~ular reason o[ responsiblhty Irac6 to his panicu tar District from the electoral e. Mr. Ross informed that is addressed under Ib), Qnnlifirations of Conmrissioners. Mr. Van Hoo said he would bring up a change to his motion-A clrnrrge to Serr ion 3.01, (b), to n<l the gnnliHr/nimrs srmh rognrds to the yualifcvlion of six moot hs prior to qua llficar on, residing in his disc rirl, ns well as, Elertion nl Large, (g). completely Chm~er 622-98\8 I;y»ated Ci ['st~i~i at tiiet~rie ol'qulfPioi~fnr 6. ..II ii Uale: ci~,n<~~ e-zz-9a~