Charter10-12-10Min City of Longwood
2010 Charter Advisory Committee
Longwood City Commission Chambers
175 West Warren Avenue
Lo;',gwood, Florida
MINUTES
October 12, 2010
7 :00 P.M.
Present: Chair Bruce Kubec
Vice Chair JoAnne Rebello (arrived at 7:02 p.m.)
Member Steve Debole
Member Doug Damerst (left the meeting at 7:25 p.m.)
Member Greg Cetera
J. Giffen Chumley, Fishback, Dominick, et al. (arrived at 7:06 p.m.)
Sarah M. Mirus, Recording Secretary
1. Call to Order. Chair Kubec called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
2. Approval of Minutes — August 10, 2010 Regular Meeting and
September 14, 2010 Regular Meeting.
Member Damerst moved to approve the Minutes of the August 10,
2010 Regular Meeting. Seconded by Member Cetera and carried
by a unanimous voice vote with Vice Chair Rebello absent.
Member Damerst moved to approve the Minutes of the September
14, 2010 Regular Meeting. Seconded by Member Debole and
carried by a unanimous voice vote with Vice Chair Rebello absent.
3. Public Participation. None.
4. Old Business.
A. Section 8.02. Candidate Qualifying Procedures.
Vice Chair Rebello arrived at this point of the meeting.
Member Debole said this was an item the Attorney provided a
memorandum on.
It was the consensus of the Committee to defer this Section of the
Charter until the Attorney arrived.
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B. Section 9.09. Fee for validation.
Member Debole said this was brought to the Committee because it
was not very clear and it stated in the Charter, "...by resolution
establish a reasonable fee..."
Vice Chair Rebello said it never stated what the fee was.
Ms. Mirus said she had the Records Clerk research the matter and
the only thing she was able to find was from the. Commission
Minutes dated August 11, 1986. She then distributed the Minutes
of the August 11, 1986 Commission Meeting to the Committee.
She said the Seminole County Supervisor of Elections charges ten
cents (10¢) for each signature submitted to his Office to verify the
signature on the petitions.
Vice Chair Rebello inquired if this was something that should be
written what the fee was or referred to the fee that was charged by
the Supervisor of Elections. She said that it was very vague and it
had not been addressed since 1986.
Chair Kubec said it seemed to be working and doesn't know why
the Committee would want to modify or change it. He said he was
open to any ideas or suggestions.
Vice Chair Rebello said it was very ambiguous.
Ms. Mirus stated there wasn't a resolution adopted that established
a reasonable fee.
Member Debole said he agreed that it was vague and inquired how
would you clarify the fees that can be incurred.
Vice Chair Rebello asked why couldn't they put something in there
that referred to the cost of the Supervisor of Elections.
Chair Kubec suggested having the Commission adopt a resolution
by 2011.
Mr. Chumley arrived at this point of the meeting.
Vice Chair Rebello said the Commission had been in violation of
the Charter since a resolution had not been adopted.
Chair Kubec said it does not state when the resolution had to be
established and would not necessarily say the Commission was in
violation. He inquired if a date was inserted if that would address
the concern.
Charter 10 -12 -10/2
Member Debol.e inquired if this Section of the expense would
apply on a case -by -case basis.
Member Damerst said he saw this as a non - issue. He doesn't
know or was aware of where this was an issue or a problem.
Vice Chair Rebello said that she did not see it as an issue or a
problem and needed clarification. She suggested the following
language, "as established by the Supervisor of Elections of
Seminole County." She then asked the Recording Secretary if
there would be any other expense incurred by the City besides the
validation of signatures on the petitions.
Ms. Mirus responded in the negative. .
Vice Chair Rebello suggested referring to State Law.
Member Cetera said the task was described of what's required in
the Charter and it states, "...resolution established a reasonable
fee..." He said the mechanism would need to be set -up for the
Commission to create a resolution that would establish the fee.
Vice Chair Rebello suggested having the Charter Advisory
Committee make the Commission aware that there was no
resolution for Section 9.09.
Member Damerst said when the Committee makes their
recommendations for changes to the Charter; they could include a
notation and it would be an observation and recommendation noted
in their recommendations.
Chair Kubec said this would need to be added in the list of
recommendations and add a copy of the Minutes from August 11,
1986 City Commission Meeting.
C. Section 10.02. Standard of ethics.
Chair Kubec said he had some homework to do and talked with
different people. He said that everyone he had spoken with stated
the State Statutes already govern the ethics of the City Commission
and government employees. He said that anything they do would
be trumped by the State Law and it seems to be working.
Member Damerst said he had a similar opinion and was covered by
State Laws. He stated it was brought under the Charter and was
adequate. He said the only thing they may want to consider was a
Board of Ethics. He said this would be duplicated efforts and
Charter 10 -12 -10/3
creates an extra burden for elected officials. He stated he liked
Section 10.03 of the City Charter.
Member Debole said he agreed and stated the documentation the
Committee received regarding the discussion on a Code of Ethics
stated the same thing concerning the Florida Ethics Commission
and the Ethics Commission was very stringent.
Vice Chair Rebello said Members of the Ethics Commission were
political appointments and did not know what the solution was.
She said it did not appear they were very adequate. She said she
was surprised the City of Sanford had a Code of Ethics besides
what the State had. She said she understands the problem if they
wrote a Code of Ethics, who would enforce it.
Member Cetera said the State governs it well and goes back to
enforcement. He said the documentation that was forwarded was
pretty clear and encompassed a lot of information.
Reviewed with no recommendations.
Member Damerst left the meeting at this point of the meeting.
D. Section 12.03. Members.
Member Cetera said the two (2) websites that were provided was a
letter from a retired Fire Chief from California and the second
website was a national database of information for cities to report
their information on their fire department. He said Chief Stravino
was unable to attend tonight's meeting due to being out on sick
leave and offered to come to the next Charter meeting. He stated
Chief Stravino did agree what was in the Charter had room for
improvement.
Discussion ensued regarding first response and tying the number of
firefighters to the population of the City.
Member Cetera moved to table Section 12.03 of the City
Charter to their next meeting. Seconded by Vice Chair
Rebello and carried by a unanimous voice vote with
Member Damerst absent.
E. Section 12.06. Accountability.
Vice Chair Rebello said there seems to be a conflict with Section
12.04 and Section 12.06.
Charter 10 -12 -10/4
Member Debole said he saw the difference between Section 12.04
and Section 12.06 of the City Charter. He said Section 12.04 was
the responsibilities and duties as opposed to Section 12.06 evolved
around the personnel. He then referred to Section 5.01 of the City
Charter and said the Commission did have the right to approve the
appointments of Department Heads and the Commission would not
be involved in the termination of Department Heads. He suggested
additional language be added stating the Administrator could not
terminate the Department Heads unless approved by the
Commission.
Chair Kubec said the Commission was not managing the Fire
Chief or the Police Chief. He said the Commission was
prescribing what the duties and responsibilities would be for those
perspective Departments. - He read Section 12.06 of the City
Charter and said he did not see a conflict with Section 12.04 and
Section 12.06.
Vice Chair Rebello said in the case of the new Fire Chief and
Police Chief, it was after they were already hired and then it went
to the Commission for approval. She said it was a done deal and
then went to the Commission. She said as far as terminating, she
would like to see a little more protection for the Fire Chief and
Police Chief since they were important positions.
Member Debole read Section 5.01 of the City Charter and
suggested adding language that would state the Commission
approves the termination of the Department Heads.
Vice Chair Rebello suggested the following language to Section
5.01 of the City Charter, "All such terminations shall be subject to
approval by the City Commission."
Chair Kubec inquired if that would be included in the Personnel
Policy and Procedures Manual.
Vice Chair Rebello said the previous City Administrator would
bring the matter forward for approval by the Commission and the
Department Head would not know if they had the job until they
were confirmed.
Chair Kubec said that based on his experience an employee would
not be hired unless the outlined contingencies were met.
Discussion ensued regarding the termination of the Department
Heads.
Charter 10-12-10/5
Mr. Chumley said if the Charter does state they "serve at the
pleasure of' and that generally was considered at -will
employment. He said if the Charter was the law the City operates
under, then nothing in the Charter can protect the officer from
getting fired at -will, even if the Personnel Policy and Procedures
Manual says to the contrary. He said theoretically, the Personnel
Policy and Procedures Manual would be in conflict with the
Charter.
Vice Chair Rebello asked if there was any protection for the Police
Chief and Fire Chief.
Mr. Chumley said there may be protection for the Fire Chief. He
said the Fire Chief had certain rights under State Statutes and there
was a specific chapter that pertained to firefighters and their rights
if they were being investigated for wrong doing. He said there was
a similar protection for police officers but police chiefs were
specifically exempted from that.
Vice Chair Rebello said the Commission did not want any more at-
will because at one point there were several at -will contracts. She
said they wanted those done away with and what Mr. Chumley was
stating was at -will employment.
Mr. Chumley said that's generally how it was interpreted when it
goes to court. He noted that he had not completed detailed
research but that was what he was gathering this evening.
Vice Chair Rebello noted Section 12.06 of the Charter was
changed in 2003 and inquired why it was changed.
Ms. Mirus stated it was changed due to the Department of Public
Safety was disbanded, and the Fire Department and Police
Department were created.
Member Debole said the additional verbiage would be helpful to
prevent a mistake or rush to judgment that was overseen by others.
He said in working for government, he realized that's where the
union comes into action.
Vice Chair Rebello said she would like Mr. Chumley to research
the matter.
Chair Kubec said Mr. Chumley was going to research State Law
and Ms. Mirus would research the Personnel Policies and
Procedures Manual.
Charter 10 -12 -10/6
It was the consensus of the Committee to table Section 12.06 of the
City Charter to their next meeting.
Chair Kubec said earlier in the meeting, they tabled Section 8.02.
of the City Charter and inquired if Mr. Chumley wanted add
anything.
Mr. Chumley said he did not want to add anything further. He
reviewed the charges for the qualifying fee for candidates.
Ms. Mirus reviewed the charges of the qualifying fee for
candidates.
Mr. Chumley said it was working and it was unclear when he was
reading that Section.
F. Review previous recommendations made by Members of the
Charter Advisory Committee and discuss any new
recommendations made by Members of the Charter Advisory
Committee.
It was the consensus of the Committee to table 4 F to the next
meeting.
6. New Business. None.
7. Agenda Items for Next Meeting.
Chair Kubec asked that an Item be placed on the next Agenda for input
from Members Damerst and Debole for any comments or questions prior
to joining the Committee.
S. Adjourn. Chair Kubec adjourned the meeting at 8:20 p.m.
I
Bruce Kubec, hh 'r
ATTEST,:
.:-TO � c Ch c.;w �
Sarah M. Mirus, MMC, MBA, Recording Secretary
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