Charter11-09-10Min City of Longwood
2010 Charter Advisory Committee
Longwood City Commission Chambers
175 West Warren Avenue
Longwood, Florida
MINUTES
November 9, 2010
7 :00 P.M.
Present: Vice Chair JoAnne Rebello
Member Steve Debole
Member Doug Damerst (arrived at 7:03 p.m.)
Member Greg Cetera
J. Giffen Chumley, Fishback, Dominick, et al.
Sarah M. Mirus, Recording Secretary
Anthony Stravino, Fire Chief
Absent: Chair Bruce Kubec
1. Call to Order. Vice Chair Rebello called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
2. Approval of Minutes — October 12, 2010 Regular Meeting.
Member Cetera moved to approve the Minutes of October 12,
2010 as documented. Seconded by Member Debole and carried by
a unanimous voice vote with Chair Kubec and Member Damerst
absent.
3. Public Participation. None.
4. Old Business.
A. Section 12.03. Members.
Member Damerst arrived at this point of the meeting.
Member Debole said the Committee was in agreement with the
same questions in regards to the numbers and how the numbers
could be better specified.
Vice Chair Rebello asked Chief Stravino if this Section was very
ambiguous the way it is written.
Chief Stravino said it was not ambiguous, and did not agree with it
and the number per say. He said the number was 28.5 and listed
the positions within the Fire Department in 1997. He stated today,
the Fire Department had forty (40) personnel.
Charter 11- 09 -10 /1
Member Debole said the word "firefighters" in Section 12.03 and
wasn't sure if it was all inclusive of the other members of the Fire
Department.
Chief Stravino said in 1997, the total number of employees would
be twenty -seven (27) and today, it was thirty -nine (39) members.
He said the only two (2) civilian positions in 1997 were the
Administrative Assistant and the part-time Records Clerk. He
stated everyone was a firefighter just different classification of a
firefighter.
Discussion was held regarding response time, benefit cost analysis,
and standards for the Fire Department to follow.
Chief Stravino said there should be a number in Charter and said
he did not know what the number should be and recommended
basing it on response time. He said if that didn't make the
Committee happy, he would recommend putting the number of
what the Fire Department consists of today, forty (40) personnel.
He said as soon as the economy turns, he would be asking for other
positions. He said for anything in public safety, he would not base
it on population.
Vice Chair Rebello asked how many employees were on a shift.
Chief Stravino said there were twelve (12) employees on a shift.
He said there were five (5) employees at one (1) station and six (6)
employees at the other station.
Discussion was held regarding first response and covering the City
of Lake Mary before they had a fire station.
Chief Stravino said it was his job to tell you where the problems
were and how to correct them. He said in the future, they would
need a ladder truck and the ladder truck would require a crew.
Discussion was held regarding the Automatic Aid Agreement with
Seminole County Government and the requirements.
Member Damerst said the Committee was to look at the Charter
and make recommendations to the Commission about any potential
changes they may want to put on the ballot. He said the Charter
was a document that was intended to change slowly and to not
change often. He said when he reads this Section about the
number of firefighters, and sees this Section of the Charter that
contemplates there would be a minimum, and unfortunately it did
not tell the public what the minimum was. He said this was a
deficiency in the Charter since it was not plain spoken. He said
Charter 11 -09 -10/2
then it contemplates those who manage the City with the
collaboration and permission of the Commission determines the
needs beyond the minimum, as the situations change. He said any
attempt, in his opinion, by the Charter to try and determine what
the current force needed to be, would soon be out of date. He
asked the Fire Chief to leave the Charter flexible.
Chief Stravino said to answer his question; there would be two (2)
considerations. He said flexibility would be a good thing because
times change. Therefore, service levels would change. He said not
being in Longwood for very long, he thinks the intent was to give
the citizens some sort of comfort level to understand there would
be a minimum level in Longwood for Police and Fire. He said he
would caution the Committee on changing anything too drastically
relate to that. He said, as a resident, he would be concerned with
leaving it blank and provided examples of the service levels.
Member Damerst said, if he understood the Fire Chief correctly,
the standards were changing from when it was contemplated. He
said that minimum level may not be sufficient but we don't know.
He said with the Automatic Aid System, the City isn't left alone in
the event additional resources were needed, or in the event of a
large scale catastrophe, such as a train wreck. He noted Longwood
was not an island community and was within a countywide system.
He said if they address anything with the Charter, they may want
to address the minimum. He said the contemplation with the
minimum, which was determined twenty -seven (27) persons and
with that contemplation may be out -of -date, it may be time to
upgrade or increase, especially with the arrival of SunRail, and the
City would have to be responsible for the fire protection. He asked
the Fire Chief to advise the Committee to arrive at a number for
the minimum that contemplates SunRail.
Chief Stravino said his suggestion, that contemplates SunRail
would include two (2) engines, ladder truck, and two (2) rescues
would be the minimum.
Member Damerst inquired what the equipment was now.
Chief Stravino responded stating two (2) engines and two (2)
rescues. He recommended putting a third person in the rescue and
run three (3) on a rescue and three (3) on an engine, plus a ladder
truck and a Battalion Chief. He said as the Fire Chief, he was
going to get a lot of heat for this because it states four (4) people
per engine and doesn't know if Longwood could afford to do that.
He said if Longwood could afford to put on more people, he would
rather put that person on the ambulance and not run the engine to
save the wear and tear on the engine.
Charter 11 -09 -10/3
Discussion was held regarding the staffing numbers for the Fire
Department.
Member Damerst- said they should contemplate new language for
that Section of the Charter. He said just as those folks did in the
1990's, they contemplated a minimum and thinks it's due to be
updated to what a current minimum service level; was and
suggested using the current number. He said he had to wonder
about SunRail.
Member Debole said it was hard to predict and rather than trying to
make predictions that they were not sure of, they know for sure
that the count was a valid amount meeting the City's needs and
meeting the response time needs.
Chief Stravino responded, stating it was not. He said the current
coefficient was between 3.4 or 3.5 times twelve (12) positions and
did not include the Battalion Chief; he would need 40.8 people on
shift and he does not have that. He said the Fire Department has a
lot of money in overtime and believes they could hire some people
and reduce the overtime significantly. He said he understands the
ramifications of that because when you hire someone, its benefits
to life. He said they were short staffed right now, and when
someone calls in sick or someone gets hurt, it's automatic
overtime. He stated they were almost five (5) positions short of
• what they needed to do right now and not accrual overtime. He
said there was no buffer in the system right now.
Vice Chair Rebello inquired how the Charter of Deerfield Beach
was written regarding their Fire Department.
Chief Stravino said they had to have a Fire Department of their
own and could not contract it out to the County without it going to
referendum and they also must have a Fire Chief. He said the
same was for the Police Department. He said something should be
in the Charter because you don't know what the future may bring.
He said this protects the residents and agreed it needed to be
modified.
Discussion was held regarding the firefighters becoming
•
paramedics and the County building a fire station in the City limits
of Longwood.
Member Damerst thanked Chief Stravino for coming and spending
some time with the Committee. He said in his experience, the Fire
Department provided excellent service.
Charter 11 -09 -10/4
Chief Stravino said his goal was to have every firefighter be a
paramedic and this gives you more flexibility with the schedule.
Member Cetera said the Committee agreed they needed to update
that with a real number and would like to see it tied with a
measurable standard. He said that puts a m.easureable standard in
that there puts a benchmark out there for everyone to see. He said
if they tie it to a number, nobody really knows what the number
was today.
Discussion was held regarding response times and data.
Vice Chair Rebello inquired if the Fire Department was accredited.
Chair Stravino responded in the negative and explained what it
would take to get accredited.
Discussion was held regarding the National Fire Protection
Association (NFPA) Standards and Occupational Safety and
Health Administration (OSHA) Standards.
Member Damerst stated he saw two (2) potential changes. He said
the first would be to get rid of the unspoken number and actually
put the number in. He said that way the Charter was plain
speaking and a citizen could understand what the number was, and
the number was twenty -seven (27). He said the second potential
change was to update the minimum and could contemplate those as
two (2) different decisions. He said, do they put the number in and
if they put the number in, do they update it.
Member Debole said although they were talking about the
minimum in the Charter, as the Chief said additional staffing
would be a benefit; and be possible when the revenues were
available and a better economy. He said then Chief Stravino will
make his proposition to the Commission for more staff. He said the
minimum was what the Committee was concerned with right now.
Member Cetera said the Committee brings their recommendations
to the Commission and then it goes for referendum. He said
today's staffing level was a better number to put in the Charter and
suggested putting in language that this Section would be reviewed
every five (5) years.
•
Member Damerst noted the Charter was reviewed every three (3)
years. He recommended putting the number twenty -seven (27) in
and updating the number.
Charter 11 -09 -10/5
Discussion was held regarding first response and the levels of
services being provided.
Chief Stravino said there had to be a number in that Section and it
would be his suggestion as the Fire Chief, to recommend the
current staffing levels because they could not get any lower
without reducing service. He said in a perfect world, he would like
to see a generic statement made about the response times without
tying the Commission's hands. He stated those statements would
cost money.
Discussion was held regarding the Transit Oriented Development
(TOD) and increasing the work load of the Fire Department.
Discussion was held regarding Fractile Response Times and where
it was performance and measurement based, not averages.
Member Damerst suggested the following language for Section
12.03 of the City Charter to say: "The Fire Department shall
consist of no fewer firefighters than forty (40) and sufficient to
meet or exceed Fractile Response Times Standards determined by
the City Administrator." He said there was a performance
measure in there and inquired if it should be determined by the
City Administrator or by the City Commission.
Chief Stravino suggested the Section state: ".. Fractile Response
Times Standards determined to recommend by the City
Administrator." He said it was a policy decision and policy was
set by the Commission.
Vice Chair Rebello said she was reviewing the City Charter dated
November 2, 1999 and read an excerpt of Section 12.03 to state the
following: "The Fire Division shall consist of no fewer firefighters
than existed on the day of passage. The head of the fire safety
division shall have the title of Fire Chief." She said she had a
problem with putting a specific number in the Section and wanted
to tie it to something.
Member Damerst said there was a number but they can't see it
because it's veiled. He said he had a problem with a number
without a reason or some sort of standard. He said he was not
comfortable with writing a performance standard but explaining it
to the public and making it part of the Charter, there were a
minimum number of firefighters and it gives the public some
comfort. He said the minimum was one of the requirements and the
other requirement of the Fire Department was that it's staffed
sufficiently to meet or exceed performance standard that's
approved by the City Commission. He said the number forty (40)
Charter 11 -09 -10/6
was a current number but gives the Commission a number to
contemplate and work with.
Vice Chair Rebello suggested tying the number of firefighters to
the population.
Discussion ensued regarding tying the number of firefighters to the
population or by the workload.
Vice Chair Rebello suggested having the minimum based on
population and placing a caveat that another standard in addition to
the population. She said she trying to make it that the Fire and
Police Departments were similar.
Member Cetera said based on statistics they could come up with
the number if they have the population and the number of
employees. He inquired if that was the number they would want
for the next three (3) years.
Chief Stravino said he would be more comfortable with a number
and does not want the public to think its population based because
it's not. He then provided examples of workloads and their
response times.
Discussion was held regarding the proposed ballot language.
Member Debole suggested the following language for Section
12.03: "The Fire Department shall consist of no fewer firefighters
than forty (40) as existed in the 2010 City budget." He then
suggested the other wording for the response time.
Member Damerst said he would come up with some wording for
this Section and present it at the next meeting.
Vice Chair Rebello recommended all the Members of the
Committee draft some wording for this Section and bring it to the
next meeting for discussion.
B. Section 12.06. Accountability.
Reviewed with no recommendations.
C. Review previous recommendations made by Members of the
Charter Advisory Committee.
Member Damerst recommended reviewing the recommendations
after their discussion of Section 12.03 of the City Charter.
Charter 11 -09 -10/7
Discussion was held regarding the recommendations for Section
3.01 (e) of the City Charter.
Insert Delete
Mr. Chumley recommended the following language for Section
3.01 (e): "The City Clerk or his /her designee as authorized to
will administer the oath of office."
D. Discuss any new recommendations made by Members of the
Charter Advisory Committee.
Member Damerst and Member Debole stated they did not have any
new recommendations.
5. New Business. None.
6. Agenda Items for Next Meeting.
Vice Chair Rebello stated they would like to invite the Police Chief, Troy
Hickson to discuss Section 12.03 at their December meeting.
Member Damerst suggested forwarding Item 4 C to their December
meeting.
7. Adjourn. Vice Chair Rebello adjourned the meeting at 8:54 p.m
Bruce Lubec, Chair
ATTEST:
r -- /, ho
Sarah M. Mirus, MMC, MBA, Recording Secretary
Charter 11 -09 -10/8