Charter05-28-13MinCity of Longwood
2013 Charter Advisory Committee
Longwood City Commission Chambers
175 West Warren Avenue
Longwood, Florida
MINUTES
May 28, 2013
Present: Chair Ben Paris
Vice Chair Logan Cody
Member Becky Huse
Member Alesia Carringer
Dan Langley, City Attorney
Sarah M. Mirus, Recording Secretary
Absent: Member Malcom Cooper
7:00 P.M.
1. CALL TO ORDER Chair Paris called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES- April 30, 2013.
Vice Chair Cody moved to approve the Minutes of the April 30,
2013 Minutes. Seconded by Member Carringer and carried by a
unanimous voice vote with Member Cooper absent.
3. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. None.
4. REVIEW OF CHARTER
A. ARTICLE I.
recommendations.
B. ARTICLE II.
recommendations.
C. ARTICLE III.
Creation and Power. Reviewed with no
Corporate Limits.
City Commission.
Reviewed with no
Member Carringer recommended term limits and recommended the Mayor
to be elected by the citizens. She said she does not feel it benefits the City
of Longwood or its residents to keep the same people in power for so
many years in a row.
Member Huse said she agreed with her.
Charter 05-28-13/1
Member Carringer said she was sure they were going to squawk, and she
does not know if there was some kind of recourse if the Commissioners
turn it down, which she said they probably will. She said they could
figure out a way to make it go to a vote. She said she thinks this was an
issue that needs to be pushed. She stated they need term limits on the
Commissioners, and she said she does not know how to make that happen,
regardless of what they think. She said her concern was they all agree on
this, but she understands they can also shoot them down. She said how do
they make this happen in spite of what they say.
Member Huse said she thinks the first step would be to make the
recommendation. She said the worst they can say was "no", they were not
going to do it, and then they push a little harder.
Member Carringer said she really thinks it was something that needs to
change.
Member Huse said she thinks that the Mayor in any city, not just
Longwood, needs to be elected by its people, not by themselves.
Member Carringer said especially when the Commission stays the same.
She said she finds this process a joke to pick the Mayor. They might as
well throw your name in a hat, and it gets picked. She said I might as well
bring my Golden Retriever up here. It was ridiculous, and to her, it was
not the way a city should be run.
Chair Paris said let's try to put this into something a little more cohesive
for the fine Attorney. He said they would like, in Section 3.03 for the
Mayor and Deputy Mayor to change it, so that the Mayor was elected by
the people as a recommendation.
Member Carringer asked Mr. Langley what the term limit was for the
Commission.
Mr. Langley said it was a three (3) year term, and they were staggered, so
some years they do not have an election, and then they have two (2)
elections back-to-back.
Chair Paris said regarding term limits, how many terms do they want to
limit it to.
Member Huse said she thinks two (2) terms.
Member Carringer said she thinks she would like to see two (2) terms, but
does not see any more than three (3).
Charter 05-28-13/2
Chair Paris said he thinks three (3) terms might be a more healthy number.
He said if they go too low and too short in term limits, they will start to
run out of people that were qualified.
Member Huse said a term was three (3) years, so if they go two (2) term
limits, there were six (6) years.
Chair Paris asked do they want to make it where it would be two (2) term
limits period, and they were done. Or, they have two (2) terms and then
have to take three (3) years off, and then they can run for re-election.
Member Carringer said she would like to see two (2) terms and then they
were over with it or three (3) at the max, and then they were over with it.
Because all that does would be to give them a break and to bring the
problem back, if that person was a problem.
Member Huse said they could do three (3) max terms, and it would be
over and cannot come back. She said let me ask this, and she said she
would play devil's advocate along with the election of the Mayor. Let's
say they have been a City Commissioner for three (3) terms, so now they
were maxed out. She asked can they come back and now run for Mayor.
Chair Paris said he thinks that would be good to put in there that they
would be allowed to run for Mayor at that point.
Member Huse said they just cannot run for another Commission seat.
Member Carringer asked if they should have term limits on how long you
can be Mayor.
Chair Paris said he thought that would be prudent. He said the Mayor
should follow the exact same rules as the Commissioner. There should
not be any difference, other than the fact that they represent the City for all
functions and sign things. He noted they were keeping everything else the
same. The only thing they were going to change was to make the Mayor
an elected position by the people and add term limits.
Member Carringer said the thing that worries her about this was what they
would do about the current Commission seat. That would open it up to
leave them there for another nine (9) years. She said they were trying to
get a turn in here, but if they word it as such, then that allows them to stay
for another nine (9) years.
Member Huse said that may be one (1) concession that they look at and
say they were recommending this, but they were grandfathered in with one
(1) more term.
Charter 05-28-13/3
Member Carringer said she thought that was fair, because otherwise, this
was pointless because it was not going to get them a turn of ideas in here
to keep them for another nine (9) years, when they have already been here
thirty-nine (39) years.
Chair Paris asked do they want to have any provision for coming back.
He said say they do their three (3) terms and go off, and they were done.
Member Huse said they were done, but they can run for Mayor.
Vice Chair Cody asked the Attorney about the elections that they hold,
and who pays for those.
Mr. Langley said the City pays for them when it was a stand-alone
election.
Vice Chair Cody asked who pays for an election when Seminole County
was having an election, or the State was holding an election. He asked
does the City still pay, or does the County and State pay.
Mr. Langley said the County pays, and the City may have to pay some
small cost.
Member Carringer said last year they had some City stuff on the Seminole
County ballot.
Vice Chair Cody said that was his point and why don't they take a step
back instead of trying to swallow the whole elephant. Let's first try to get
them to sync up elections to save the City money. He said all of the
elections for the City should be done when the County was holding their
elections.
Mr. Langley said they were on three (3) year terms, so they don't always
get the benefits of a State and County election because it was an odd
number.
Vice Chair Cody asked if they could propose a change to two (2) year
terms. He said it costs a lot of money to have an election, not only for the
general public, but for them as taxpayers. He suggested the first step
would be to get it on with Seminole County, so the County pays the
majority of their vote. They do not have to pay for the voting machines,
and they will have a higher voter turnout.
Member Carringer said this does not fall under the County. This was a
private issue.
Charter 05-28-13/4
Vice Chair Cody said they could put it on the County's vote.
Mr. Langley said what they were trying to do was save money by having
two (2) year terms.
Vice Chair Cody responded in the affirmative. He said that way the
County pays for the election cost at the time, not the citizens. Instead of
having three (3), three (3) year terms, they would have two (2) four (4)
year terms, and it would save the taxpayers money.
Member Carringer asked Mr. Langley if he said they cannot always get
stuff on the County ballot.
Mr. Langley said they can if they stagger it where the elections were held
in November every even year. He said the thing to consider with two (2)
year terms was you essentially have their entire Commission up for
election every election, and every Commission seat was open.
Vice Chair Cody said it was going to happen every three (3) years
anyway, so it does not matter.
Chair Paris said the way they were staggered now even if there was a
wash, they would have one (1) year where there were two (2) or three (3)
Commissioners staying for the next one, and if they lose the next term
around, they would never lose every single Commissioner at a single vote,
which could be problematic.
Vice Chair Cody said eventually, they were going to be losing all of them
anyway.
Chair Paris said that was not the issue. The issue was that if they have
five (5) new Commissioners that have no clue how to actually run a
meeting or the ins and outs of how to be a Commissioner that would not
be a good thing.
Vice Chair Cody said every nine (9) years they were going to be losing
five (5) Commissioners.
Member Carringer said they would be losing them all at the same time.
She said they still will have something that they would be voting for in
three (3) years at the City of Longwood anyway. She said just because
they take the Commissioners out of the equation does not mean they still
won't be going to vote and asked if that was correct.
Charter 05-28-13/5
Mr. Langley said not necessarily. He said they may or may not. It
depends on whether they have special elections for anything like
referendums or Charter amendments.
Member Huse said that was her question.
Mr. Langley said it was not always possible to piggyback on County and
State elections to avoid special election costs.
Chair Paris asked what the turnout was for a special election.
Ms. Mirus said it depends. She noted sometimes she has seen elections
that were between eight (8%) to twelve (12%) percent and would have to
research it.
Vice Chair Cody said that would be good if they were running, but it
would be bad if they say they cannot ever run again in nine (9) years,
except for Mayor.
Ms. Mirus said she would have to go back and research it.
Vice Chair Cody said they were all in agreement that there needs to be
term limits. The question was, can they get the elections onto Seminole
County to save the taxpayers money. There will be a higher voter turnout
and, can they do it.
Member Huse asked if it has to be three (3) years and asked if they wanted
to piggyback on the County, could their term be four (4) years.
Mr. Langley said he wants to give them some information. He believes
the Commission had already proposed four (4) year terms for the purpose
of saving money last year, and the Referendum failed and noted it was
close.
Member Carringer asked how they worded it.
Mr. Langley said it was to change the terms of office to the four (4) year
term. He said two (2) Commissioners would be up every two (2) years
staggered, so they would be able to piggyback.
Member Carringer asked if they talked about limits.
Mr. Langley said there wasn't any term limits, but they were four (4) year
terms.
Charter 05-28-13/6
Vice Chair Cody said if they put term limits on it, it will be voted right
through.
Member Carringer said if they do the four (4) year terms with the two (2)
year term limits, they were good. She said whoever was coming up
whenever the four (4) year time to vote was when the next Seminole
County vote was, they were done and grandfathered to the vote.
Chair Paris said just to make sure they were on point here, they were
going to move to add a four (4) year term, which was something the
Commission wanted, but they were going to limit them to two (2) terms as
Commissioners. Then they have the option if they want to run for Mayor,
and again, run for two (2) four year terms. He said this was going to be
the next interesting thing. They were going to move to four (4) Districts.
Vice Chair Cody said they would not have to if they have term limits.
Chair Paris said they said there were four (4) Districts and they have four
(4) Commissioners representing the four (4) different Districts and a
Mayor that represents the entire City, who would not have to be bound by
being from a particular District. He said that would be the Mayor. He
noted otherwise, they have a problem in that they have four (4)
Commissioners, and the Mayor has to come from this particular District.
Member Carringer said that makes sense. It does not matter what District
he comes from because they have four (4) qualified Districts.
Chair Paris said they have five (5) Districts taken up by four (4)
Commissioners and will be forced to have the Mayor come from the fifth
District and they have no choice.
Vice Chair Cody said why don't they keep the system they have in place.
Member Huse said he means by electing their own Mayor.
Chair Paris said it does not matter and they will be gone in the next eight
(8) years.
Member Carringer said it does matter because they were still keeping the
same people doing the same thing over and over again without another
power coming in.
Vice Chair Cody said with term limits though.
Member Carringer said it does not matter. If they keep these five (5)
people and they pick a name out of a hat, it just rotates among those same
Charter 05-28-13/7
five (5) people. She said the blood never changes. If they elect a Mayor
that was not a Commissioner, then it changes everything and they were
trying to get a change and not keep it the same. She said term limits were
one (1) issue, and electing a Mayor instead of them picking from each
other, was a whole different ballgame. It puts it to the people to elect the
Mayor, and right now the people have no say so about who was to be the
Mayor. It was these five (5) Commissioners. If they keep it the same, all
they have done was keep it the same, but give them term limits.
Vice Chair Cody said were they sure they wanted to open up that ball of
wax. He said now they have to go into powers.
Member Carringer said the powers are not going to change because the
Mayor has powers now. They were just changing the process of how they
actually physically get a Mayor instead of it constantly being the same five
(5) people doing the same five (5) things, being a Commissioner and
Mayor. They will actually have a Mayor to run the City like all the other
cities do. She said all the other cities have Commissioners, and they have
a Mayor. It was two (2) different entities, as it should be.
Member Huse said they were just changing who elects the Mayor, which
was the people of the City of Longwood.
Vice Chair Logan asked what were the powers of the Mayor.
Mr. Langley said primarily, the Mayor was the ceremonial head of the
City and executes documents and runs the Commission Meetings. The
City Administrator runs the day-to-day operations of the City.
Vice Chair Logan asked if that was an elected position.
Mr. Langley said it was not and it was an appointment by the City
Commission. He noted that was the form of government they have. The
City Administrator runs the City. The Commission was the policy body
that makes the laws of the City. They were the big picture guys and gals,
and then the City Administrator runs the day-to-day operations under the
guidance of the City Commission and implements the policies and the
laws of the City that were adopted by the Commission.
Vice Chair Cody said if they came to him and told him they wanted to
have a City Commission where they have term limits, two (2) four (4) year
term limits, and then they told him they wanted to elect their own Mayor,
he said he would start asking a bunch of questions as a citizen. He felt if
they took small bites out of this by doing the term limits first, and by
getting on Seminole County's election cycle. The Mayor was mostly
ceremonial.
Charter 05-28-13/8
Member Carringer said for Commissioner and Mayor two (2) four (4) year
term limits, and they were out. There was no other way. After eight years
(8), they were done. If they cannot pick a Mayor, then it needs to be
combined into one, and they were out in eight (8) years.
Chair Paris said the reason he wanted to make it a little more permanent
for the Mayor was because they were the figurehead and they represent the
City on a consistent basis as a figurehead. He thought it might be
beneficial just for the aesthetics.
Vice Chair Cody recommended four (4) year terms with two (2) term
limits and to be on the County election cycle. Then they do not have to
pay for it.
Chair Paris asked Mr. Langley to draw up that the City Commission first
move to two (2) four (4) year terms, and everything else stays the same.
They want to be on the County's election cycle, so they can still be
staggered.
Member Carringer said they have to address who was there now, so they
cannot add eight (8) more years.
Chair Paris said they will have to be careful about trying to change that,
and might just have to let them grandfather in.
Member Carringer said for another eight (8) years. What was the point in
making the change.
Chair Paris said after that, they would not have to worry about it.
Member Carringer said that changes absolutely nothing that was going on
in the City right now. It keeps it exactly the same for another eight (8)
years.
Member Huse asked how long the Commission has been in terms so far.
She said she knows that Deputy Mayor John C. Maingot has been there for
a long time and asked can they ask that.
Mr. Langley said his guess was twelve (12) years.
Ms. Mirus said he has been on the Commission since 1999.
Member Huse asked about how long Commissioner Bob Cortes has
served.
Charter 05-28-13/9
Mr. Langley said he thought he was starting his fourth year.
Vice Chair Cody said Commissioner Cortes was running for a higher
office now.
Chair Paris said here was a happy medium. What about if they put in
place that the Commissioners were allowed one (1) more term if there was
nothing legally going to get in the way of them not grandfathering them in.
Because they were elected under this previous Charter, if they change the
Charter, will that apply to them.
Mr. Langley said he would look at that, but provided they were not cutting
off an existing term, then they were probably going to be okay.
Chair Paris said to make this simple, they were going for two (2) four (4)
year term limits and to limit all City Commissioners to one (1) additional
term at the sunset of whatever term they were on now. He said this was
by voice agreement that it was what they all want to go for, and they will
vote on it next meeting.
Vice Chair Cody asked for a cost analysis for the City to put on a special
election, versus not doing it.
Ms. Mirus said she would have to research it.
Mr. Langley said he might have some information from the last time.
Vice Chair Cody said they could present it in such a way where they were
saving the City a good amount of money.
Mr. Langley said he would do that, but they might have to extend some
terms or extend the length of an existing Commissioner's term in order to
make that coincide with the even member.
Vice Chair Cody asked what were the ways they can forfeit their office.
Member Huse read Section 3.06, paragraph b of the City Charter,
"Forfeiture of Office".
Chair Paris asked the Board if they were unanimous with Article III and
all were in agreement.
5. AGENDA ITEMS FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
Chair Paris said at the next meeting we will cover Articles IV and V and
the meeting would be on June 25, 2013.
Charter 05-28-13/10
6. ADJOURN. Chair Paris adjourned the meeting at 7:37 p.m.
ar ,Chair
ATTES
Sarah M. Mirus, MMC, MBA, Recording Secretary
Charter 05-28-13111
This Page Left Blank Intentionally.
Charter 05-28-13/12